Could the Nazi Germans have "Won" the war?

[Stylesjl]

What i mean is could they have come out more powerful after World War Two?

I think they could of become quite a powerful empire if they didn't invade the Soviet Union or declare war againest the United States. They could have kept France and crippled the British with carpet bombing

What do you think?

 

[MattII]

Could they have won? I doubt it. I do see a way they could have beaten Britain, but it would have meant leaving off Russia for a while longer, and the Russians were juststarting to come good after the purges.

 

[Stylesjl]

They shouldn't have even tried to invade Russia. Even at the height of the invasion they had only conquered one third of the land area before the tables had turned

 

[storealex]

Sure, but Hitler was crazy. He should have finished off Britain before doing anything, and he should have left the war to his generals.

 

[Reno]

What i mean is could they have come out more powerful after World War Two?

More then likely but that would have meant getting rid of Hitler at some point in 1940.

 

[Adler17]

So let us see the situation: Could have Germany won ww2 with the Nazis? No. They were too mad and had no idae of real fighting (Göring in BoB, Hitler in Russia, both in not using the Me 262 as fighter as early as possible,...).
Could Germany have won the war without Hitler and his gang, I mean Hitler died after declaring war? If he died in 1940 just after the defeat of France, he would be seen as German Napoleon, with his errors and murders, but so also Napoleon is seen in France still more as a hero than a despot. So it would happen with Hitler, since after the defeat of France even the German communists and Jews were supporting him (to a certain extent)! The racial policy would be abandoned fastly as well as the Nazis would have no longer the power for long as there was no real successor. Germany would have become a democracy relative fast again. And the war? Well France was away and Britain behind the Channel. Germany would have negotiated a peace with Britain and France (perhaps borders of 1914+ Austria+ Sudetenland and colonies back for peace and Czechia and Poland). And Stalin would have now the bad man alone in Europe.
If Hitler died in beginning of 1942, the Russian campaing couldbe won by the German army as they would most likely accept a peace with Russia (and of course Britain and USA very fast. However if they were unwilling with Russian aid (resources!) they would have to face a much greater army and Luftwaffe. They would have much more difficulties). This would last until Kursk, where Hitler made a crucial mistake.
After that a victory in the meaning of dictating the peace conditions was impossible. However a German defeat as in 1945 was not a must. This was not before end of 1944. With the Ardennes offensive and the attack to retake Budapest, the Germans lacked the forces they needed for a successful defensive campaign. With these troups and material, Germany could have pushed the Red Army on distance and also the west allies. So a kind of status quo ante in peace negotiations would be possibel until that point. Only without Hitler of course.

Adler

 

[FriendlyFire]

Of course

Invasion of Russia was also a close thing as well.

we would have faced a different cold war where US faced off with nazified Europe.
(No doubt that the US would have won against imperial japan)

 

[JohnRM]

There are a few mistakes that Germany made that greatly impacted the outcome of the war.

1) Declaring war on the United States.
2) Failing to produce a long-range bomber.
3) Concentrating on the bombing of London and other major cities, instead of continuing to destroy RAF Bases.
4) Declaring war before the German Navy was better prepared for war.
5) Hitler becoming too involved in the military planning.
6) Using massive numbers of experienced, crack troops to guard prison camps and concentration camps.
7) Failing to supply the Afrika Corps or remove them.
8) Failure to anihilate the British Army at Dunkirk.
9) Failure to deploy armored divisions during the first days of the Normandy Invasion.

 

[Trafalgar]

Nazi arrogance cost them the war.

They underestimated the British and the British empire after Dunkirk.

They had contempt for Russia and Slavic peoples in general.

They underestimated the USA industrial and military capacity.

And they were so arrogant they thought they could beat all three combined!

So, No I don't think they could have won. Their Nazi arrogance would make sure of that.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Maybe if they chose not to attack the Soviet Union. If they could have held together an alliance with them, nobody would have been able to stop them. Sorry to say not even my favorite general:

General George S. Patton Jr. ​

But going the way they did, if they could have mass produced their jet fighters, enough V-2's, put the Konigstiger on a better chassis and worked out the kinks, and had a lot more men to replace their losses, I think they could have.

To Trafalgar: The German Army was ordered to stop outside Dunkirk for awhile to something (I forget what, I'll have to look at my records), if they would have sent their armies smashing into Dunkirk, England would have lost sooooo many men that they would almost inevitably vie for peace with Germany.

 

[Reno]

The German Army was ordered to stop outside Dunkirk for awhile to something (I forget what, I'll have to look at my records

That was Hitler's order to stop, since he did not want to risk his Panzer's sinking into the marsh lands around Dunkirk. I think i've heard this from a British war document on tank battle's of World War II. And so, Hitler sent Göring's Luftwaffe to try and destroy the Brit's at Dunkirk, in wich they failed.

 

[DAv2003]

If the Nazis had still concentrated on Britain above all else, then they might have secured a deal with the U.S. and probably got Japan to join a war wityh them against Russia (maybe)

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

What i mean is could they have come out more powerful after World War Two?

I think they could of become quite a powerful empire if they didn't invade the Soviet Union or declare war againest the United States. They could have kept France and crippled the British with carpet bombing

What do you think?

Yes, they could've won, if they had limited their war effort to only a limited expansion. The problem is that Hitler never knew when to quit, and when he bit off more than he could chew, even his own generals couldn't convince him to strategically withdraw.

Among the bone-headed moves are:

1) Attacking England by air without a plan of invasion to follow-up.
2) Attacking the USSR, an ally. Bad idea, as it means you can never be trusted to negotiate later.
3) Declaring war on the US, a power that isn't even within the realm of one's expansion.
4) Joining Mussolini's war in North Africa and Greece. No advantage there.

 

[kronic]

The racial policy would be abandoned fastly

I doubt that. Sure, millions of Jews wouldn't have died but that doesn't they would've been treated as normal people. The vast majority of German elites (Nazis and non-Nazis) and huge parts of the population were racists and anti-Semites. That's a fact that can't be denied. So I wonder how you can claim something like that. Hitler is not alone responsible for the evil character of the 3rd Reich.

On topic:
I don't believe that Germany would've been able to control the whole of Europe very long. So yes, stronger than before WW2 but not nearly an empire.

 

[Obssesed Nuker]

After conquering France and losing the Battle of Britian, Hitler should have ignored the Soviet Union. Had Hitler sent just 2 or 3 Panzer Divisions to North Africa, instead of just one, Rommel would have annhilated the British at El Alamein, taken control of Egypt(and the Suez Canal), and would be able to sieze control of the Middle East. All this would rule out the possibility of an Allied Landing in North Africa, give Germany access to immense quantities of oil, seal of the Mediterranean from the British(if they didnt try to abandon the place first), threatened the control of British India(which was technically going to be underthreat from the Japanese anyways), and put him in striking position of the most vulnerable part of Russia... the Cacuases and Aentral Asia where most of the Soviet Unions oil came from. Then he could solidify his power, and launch a two pronged thrust into Russia from the Mid East and Eastern Europe. Britians presence would become increasingly irrelevant, the Soviet Union would be shattered, and it would take forever for the United States to build up the required man power to retake the continent. The main thing that could upset this is the Atomic Bomb... But given that Germany would have increased resources they could build jet fighters to shoot down Atomic Weapon carrying bombers. And eventually build V-2 Rockets.

Thank god Hitler didnt do that.

 

[Nyvin]

If Pearl Harbor never happened, we'd probably be living in a much different world right now.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Yes, if they kept the war a one front war they could of done it. If Hitler invested all his resources in taking down the British and not invading the Soviet Union or declaring war on the US, Britain would be gone making it nearly impossible to pull off a DD type invasion with US forces later on. Hitler should of never divided his forces, and especially not send half to Russia in winter, and make the same mistake Napaleon made.

 

[Nyvin]

They underestimated the British and the British empire after Dunkirk.

Not really, if anything, they were too intimidated by it. A lot of historians say that the best way the Germans had to conquer Britain was just to directly send in land forces right away (since the english channel couldn't be defended with ships) If they did this, the British would have nothing capable of stopping them, and would probably lose quite rapidly. But hitler had an admiration for the british and was intimidated into focus on air raids before any invasion.

As luck would have it, air raids were the one form of attack the british could resist.

 

[AdrianE]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Nazi Germany had no hope of winning WWII.

1) They could not succeed in an invasion of England. Germany did not have the resources to transport or supply an invasion force. This is especially true after 1/2 their navy was sunk or put out of commission in the Norway operation. The invasion barges they built would have been sunk by small waves. There was a wonderful web based analysis of Sealion and its chance for success (none at all) but I can't find the link.

2) The Axis could not supply a larger force in North Africa. The ports of Tobruk, Benghazi and Tripoli can not unload enough food, fuel and ammunition to support a bigger army. The Axis do not have enough trucks to move the supply forward. Find a book call Suppling War by Martin Van Crevald to find out why.

3) The Soviet army was a lot bigger than expected thus guarenteeing failure in Russia. Read some books by David Glantz such as Stumbing Collosus for further info .

4) Production capacity of the Allies vastly overshadowed the production capacity of the axis.

 

[Trafalgar]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Nazi Germany had no hope of winning WWII.

1) They could not succeed in an invasion of England. Germany did not have the resources to transport or supply an invasion force. This is especially true after 1/2 their navy was sunk or put out of commission in the Norway operation. The invasion barges they built would have been sunk by small waves. There was a wonderful web based analysis of Sealion and its chance for success (none at all) but I can't find the link.

2) The Axis could not supply a larger force in North Africa. The ports of Tobruk, Benghazi and Tripoli can not unload enough food, fuel and ammunition to support a bigger army. The Axis do not have enough trucks to move the supply forward. Find a book call Suppling War by Martin Van Crevald to find out why.

3) The Soviet army was a lot bigger than expected thus guarenteeing failure in Russia. Read some books by David Glantz such as Stumbing Collosus for further info .

4) Production capacity of the Allies vastly overshadowed the production capacity of the axis.

I agree completely.