Coveting of land getting out of hand?

[Harthhal]

I started a game yesterday as France. After some early scouting i find that Greece and I are the only 2 nations on a small continent. The only issue is that when I meet Greece he's already HOSTILE! I hover over it to find out why and it says there haven't been any major incidents yada yada. I wait a turn only to find myself Denounced and it's like turn 15 at this point!!! I check his list of issues with me and it says He covets land I own and ofc that he denounced me. I've known Greece for 2 turns he hasn't seen my lands and already he covets them enough to the point where he was Hostile when he first met me and is denoucing me the next turn??

He should at least have to have scouted out my lands before being allowed to covet them

 

[Flaviusx]

Alex is a jerk and always has been. One of the worst civs to have as a neighbor. True in vanilla, true now.

 

[Harthhal]

Alex is a jerk and always has been. One of the worst civs to have as a neighbor. True in vanilla, true now.

Yeah but I've noticed a lot of other Civs coveting my lands more since G&K. I've never been denounced a turn after meeting someone or had them be hostile during our first run in ofc. It just seems that I see "covets lands we own" on anyone who is upset at me

 

[compwiz1202]

I started a game yesterday as France. After some early scouting i find that Greece and I are the only 2 nations on a small continent. The only issue is that when I meet Greece he's already HOSTILE. I hover over it to find out why and it says there haven't been any major incidents yada yada. I wait a turn only to find myself Denounced and it's like turn 15 at this point!!! I've known Greece for 2 turns he hasn't seen my lands and already he covets them enough to the point where he was Hostile when he first met me and is denoucing me the next turn??

Khan and Attila did the same thing to me. They were always aggressive, but it's ridiculous to get hostile as soon as you meet someone. Khan was slinging insults left and right, too.

Although on the other side, I had a game with Siam, Spain and Gandhi, and they were all Friendly from the turn I met them.

 

[galahadba]

I had no problems until now with this... but did not had any agressive neightbour... For agressive civilizations meeting a new civ is meeting a new enemy for conquest, i don't see a problem with it, getting every civ to behave the same way (being friendly or neutral until have problems with you) for me would be the problem.

And it is even logical, having only you and him in the continent, if he is a warmonger it is a very good chance to have all the continent for him without the worry of being backstabed while doing it... it is what i would do if i begin a game willing to conquest the world...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I had Russia do that to me. It seems like every one of my neighbors covets my land and it has colored our relationships. then again, I'm Austria and DMing all the City-States.

 

[Andulias]

I started a game yesterday as France. After some early scouting i find that Greece and I are the only 2 nations on a small continent. The only issue is that when I meet Greece he's already HOSTILE! I hover over it to find out why and it says there haven't been any major incidents yada yada. I wait a turn only to find myself Denounced and it's like turn 15 at this point!!! I check his list of issues with me and it says He covets land I own and ofc that he denounced me. I've known Greece for 2 turns he hasn't seen my lands and already he covets them enough to the point where he was Hostile when he first met me and is denoucing me the next turn??

He should at least have to have scouted out my lands before being allowed to covet them

True in every Civ ever made. Alex has always been a big pain in the ass.

 

[mlund]

Why don't you try putting on the "Random Personality" option for your next game and see what happens? A lot of the Civ leaders are designed out of the box to be violent expansionists or conniving back-stabbers due to either their historic personalities or their civilizations' strong points in terms of Unique Units and abilities.

Alexander, Attila, Genghis, Bismark, Oda, Boudicca, Montezuma, and Napolean are all going to be bloodthirsty psychopaths ready to consume your empire at the drop of a hat unless Random Personalities are turned on. Wu, Augustus, Catherine, and any of the above acting "Friendly" are just waiting around for the opportunity to back-stab you. Isabella may flip out on you at the slightest provocation. Ghandi will play nice until his threats are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

Other Civilizations are really pacifistic with their default personalities. If you want to see a massive Korean campaign for Wold Domination you probably want Random Personalities.

- Marty Lund

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Same thing happened to me in my last game, the turn after I met Alex (also my only neighbor, just like in your game) he denounces me because he covets my land. Luckily I was playing Attila so I just build some battering rams and archers and conquered his hostile ass. Any time I see that I have Alex as a neighbor I go into early conquering mode, if I don't invade him he WILL invade me so better to get it over with on my own terms.

 

[Philosophe]

Why don't you try putting on the "Random Personality" option for your next game and see what happens? A lot of the Civ leaders are designed out of the box to be violent expansionists or conniving back-stabbers due to either their historic personalities or their civilizations' strong points in terms of Unique Units and abilities.

Alexander, Attila, Genghis, Bismark, Oda, Boudicca, Montezuma, and Napolean are all going to be bloodthirsty psychopaths ready to consume your empire at the drop of a hat unless Random Personalities are turned on. Wu, Augustus, Catherine, and any of the above acting "Friendly" are just waiting around for the opportunity to back-stab you. Isabella may flip out on you at the slightest provocation. Ghandi will play nice until his threats are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

Other Civilizations are really pacifistic with their default personalities. If you want to see a massive Korean campaign for Wold Domination you probably want Random Personalities.

- Marty Lund

I agree, I enjoy random personalities. Makes the game a surprise every time.

 

[Morningcalm]

Coveting lands is so stupid. Basically it means if you're a neighbor, they are gunning for you. It's way too predictable to allow that negative modifier in. It's as cheesy as "You're trying to win in the same way as me, so I hate you" (even if you weren't aiming for the same victory condition as them).

 

[pspboy7]

Alexander is an angry little boy who doesn't play nice and wants the sandbox to himself. Monty and Wu Zetian aren't that far behind either though.

 

[mabalogna]

I had the same thing happen to me last night in a MP game where Catherine was my neighbour. Right after meeting her i saw that she was hostile. Now I alway knew that Catherine was a backstabbing doo-doo head so i was expecting this anyway when i saw her border.

Maybe they script has changed and now the more aggressive AI are just being upfront about how likely they're going to attack you.

 

[petermarkab]

He should at least have to have scouted out my lands before being allowed to covet them

Seriously? If the boot was on the other foot, wouldn't you be irked that your only neighbour had found you. You're just annoyed that you can't already exploit Greece to get ahead, ultimately conquering them and moving on to bigger and better things.

It's as cheesy as "You're trying to win in the same way as me, so I hate you"

... which is pretty accurate human despotic behaviour no?

 

[Vatras]

I had no problem with coveting the land so far. My neighbours were England, Sweden and Carthage, who seem to be not very erratic...but I wonder what Dido would be like if she had had a better military.
On the other continent China, Germany and America were stabbing each other all the time, usually with China being the cause.

 

[compwiz1202]

Coveting lands is so stupid. Basically it means if you're a neighbor, they are gunning for you. It's way too predictable to allow that negative modifier in. It's as cheesy as "You're trying to win in the same way as me, so I hate you" (even if you weren't aiming for the same victory condition as them).

It's not really the coveting thing that is the issue; they already did that even when you were on the other side of the map. It's the fact that they're instantly hostile now instead of guarded with only that one negative modifier. What's even more weird is they will insult me about my military the whole time and be hostile, but never DoW. Eventually when I outtech them hard, they are no more.

 

[Harthhal]

Seriously? If the boot was on the other foot, wouldn't you be irked that your only neighbour had found you. You're just annoyed that you can't already exploit Greece to get ahead, ultimately conquering them and moving on to bigger and better things.

... which is pretty accurate human despotic behaviour no?

i didnt find his capital until much later. at this point it was a spearmen running into a scout. and there's nothing wrong with requiring that you SEE the land you're coveting before being allowed that diplomatic modifier.

 

[Flaviusx]

Dido is actually amazingly reliable once you settle down into a peaceful friendship with her. Carthage seems to be one of the more pacific civs in game terms. You can knock out other civs entirely and she's quite undisturbed by that and can be kept in friendship all the way to the end.

She doesn't even seem to carry lingering resentments of past wars you fought with her.

She's a good neighbor. If you can lock her into frienship you'll be BFF.

 

[Drawmeus]

Coveting lands is so stupid. Basically it means if you're a neighbor, they are gunning for you. It's way too predictable to allow that negative modifier in. It's as cheesy as "You're trying to win in the same way as me, so I hate you" (even if you weren't aiming for the same victory condition as them).

Which is exactly what every more aggressive human player does. It basically is the game's way of telling you, "I'm aggressive and you're in my way." I want some aggressive AIs in my game, so I want a mechanic like this.

I agree that the message as written is kind of misleading and confusing, though. People had the same problem with it in Vanilla. It sounds like you settled in the wrong place, but that isn't the case. Really it just means they're aggressively conquering neighbors and you're in the way.

 

[Bechhold]

Coveting of lands is the new "trying to win the same way as me".