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COVID-19 virus thread (formerly Wuhan coronavirus)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aimeeandbeatles, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    You overestimate Americans in aggregate, or rather, for reasons stated previously, caution suggests the CDC and other authorities will be constrained from being effective. I didn't say scapegoating would be a useful reaction.

    Even if the virus has a mild health impact in the US, the economic disruption due to large scale Chinese quarantines is on its way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
    Old Hippy likes this.
  2. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    This is not the full picture. Again, it seems people in the West are only getting a positive picture, which is by design and a good example of information control.

    Hysterical reactions have not been avoided. There was panic buying of food across the country at one point. Even before that, people have been hoarding masks, sanitisers and alcohol swabs. Price gouging is happening despite government efforts to crack down on it. Masks are not available and are only stockpiled by the authorities for use by medical workers. At the same time, the government engaged in a campaign to control public perception by repeatedly insisting that there are enough masks stockpiled, without directly telling the public what and whom they are really being stockpiled for, even as masks are no longer available for purchase anywhere.

    The merits of wearing surgical masks to protect yourself are questionable, yes, but the government has been attempting to prevent panic by selectively publicising facts about what it's doing. And while it's not as bad as in HK, there have been some mixed signals sent about the need to wear masks by medical experts and even a politician or two who don't seem entirely convinced themselves. A lot of public trust was lost, resulting in the panic-buying and even more hoarding.

    The only news that international observers are getting are about the good work in contact tracing and the reporting of infected numbers. They don't see the information manipulation going on domestically, which is part and parcel of the decades-long practice of treating the people like children - a consequence of which is the fact that the people do indeed behave like children now.
     
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  3. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    @How to know
    You are in a difficult situation that could be better, but is what it is. Stay safe.

    The CDC is the US Center for Disease Control

    My friends in Changsha seem to be doing Ok. They don't go out and have enough food for a few more weeks. They do ask me for virus news not censored by the CCP. The failure of government transparency in December and January is typical of most governments because they don't want to alarm people or look bad. In the end though, it catches up with them and the full story gets out anyway. Our President lies to the people all the time to hide what he and his administration does.

    In any case, Xi wants this to end well and does what he thinks will serve him and the Party politically, economically, and socially. If he can't balance those three things well, he can get in serious trouble. He is in a difficult situation. Look after yourself.
     
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  4. How to know

    How to know Chieftain

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    I am indeed too privileged to understand what it feels like if I can’t find masks to buy when I need to got to buy food. The desperation is both personal and part of a collective consciousness now, both are far away from me. No complaints about that but I can see why for me to speak about how bad the life of people in Wuhan is impolite. But if you do find someone who lives in Wuhan and want to know about what is like there, if that person only talks about their personal experience, the pictures you can get will probably better than reality, simply because they are capable of talk to you, making them already well off compared to those truly weak.

    Now return to the facts I know. My city had sent out the third expedition team of doctors to Wuhan two days ago, they are carrying extra supplies for those in the first and second team.

    The first two team were abused by medical workers in Wuhan, like many other expedition team from other provinces.

    Doctors in Wuhan naturally is taking command on all matters there, no disputes about that. But assigning doctors who came far away to ICU while putting their own doctors and nurses to recovery center is a move of bad faith in my opinion.

    The more problematic thing is workers in Hubei would demand our aiding doctors to carry our own supplies, including masks, gloves and protective cloths, and once they arrived the Hubei’s side just took all the supplies and left them with no equipment. Our second team hide the necessities in both their and patients’ luggage, neither did help and some of their valuables were stolen.

    Right now the production of masks and other medical equipments are catching up I hope there would be less situation like that.
     
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  5. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    @How to know I haven't heard much about what conditions are like in Wuhan and the area around it.

    It is getting worse all over; Korea, Italy, and the Mid East. I think we are past our ability to contain it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2020
  6. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    I guess that's been the case for a couple of weeks now. If it was to be contained, it'd have to be contained with real quarantines and closure of international travel. Which very few countries are even now partly imposing. The panic in China was reason enough to take this seriously. But greed for tourism revenues prevented it. In the end tourism will be heavily hit anyway, and everything else also.
     
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  7. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Number of daily new cases is declining. But geographical spread is getting worse, right.
    We closed border and didn't get new cases so far, except initial two Chinese citizens (already recovered) and three people from cruise ship (on quarantine now)
    But if it continues like that, the infection may come from other places, such as Thailand or Italy.
     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    From CDC yesterday. I bolded some key parts and the questions that were asked.
     
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  9. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    As things stand now if the decision was up to me I'd close all international borders to travel until the detains on how exactly this virus can be fought are well known. Legislate a moratorium on all debt, print money, whatever, "the economy" should not be a reason for inaction.
    The italians are now having to emulate the chinese, with internal barriers and quarantines. Which are much, much harder to enforce than a complete ban across the international borders would have been. And also worse for the population, for the whole country.
     
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  10. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Deity

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    Isolate a few villages is worse than isolate a whole country? Such measure may cause more deaths than the virus itself. Economy is not about money but about all sort of goods, many necessary for life.

    We should accept that virus like these are unstoppable and take reasonable measures to slow spreading to develop treatments and reduce death toll but sooner than later it will spread and will become as common as flu. We can't control if it will happen only how will it happen.

    (BTW, read somewhere that about HALF of our ADN comes from viruses which infected us at some point along evolution and were integrated in our genetic sequence, so we literally are a legion of viruses and will survive and maybe integrate this new one)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  11. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    It's not a few villages in Italy, or it will soon be just that. Look at China for an example of what an out of control virus requires to even calm people down.
    Italy is already closing schools and universities in half the country over this.

    The sort of goods necessary for live should be produced locally (nationally if you will) whenever possible all all, economics be damned. Deglobalize.
    For an example: it is utter insanity that the global supply chain for many medications is currently utterly dependent on base chemicals only produced in China. That's what "free", unrestricted trade gets you: a very brittle system that collapses when tshtf. It may be coming now, or we may still escape this one and come later, but it will come. Production of vital goods needs to be decentralized, for the good of the whole mankind. And production means the whole supply chain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  12. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Deity

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    Not gonna happen. Not only because it is highly inefficient and antieconomical but because it is not even possible since many resources exist in a few spots around the world and most countries can get them only through trading.
     
  13. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Very few resources exist only in a few spots around the world. For those there is such a thing as stockpiling. Easy to do, it was done until the world entered the neo-liberal era, after the end of the cold war. I don't want to derail this thread, only saying that "can't be done" as an argument is simply not true.
     
  14. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Hmmm...using disease to achieve political aims. Not a very good plan. We need to learn from this and and deal with pandemics as a global economy. Redundancy is a good place to start not isolation.

    BTW, 3D printing is moving us much closer to local manufacturing of many goods.
     
  15. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Nothing against strategic stocks. Completely normal with fossil fuels and so many other bulk.

    At the end of last year the Dutch government decided to force suppliers of farmaceuticals delivering to NL to have an iron stock of 5 months.
    Ofc this does not apply to perishable medicins like insulin.

    There were two main reasons and the Brexit sudden no-deal disruption risk gave it enough urgency to decide.
    * to improve the negotiating position of the government with Big Pharma to get lower and lower prices
    * to mitigate the second order effect of already low prices: that typical China, India suppliers preferred to sell to countries first where they had higher prices causing ups and downs in supply reliability to NL.
     
  16. How to know

    How to know Chieftain

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    Just yesterday there were tourist attractions opened in Beijing, Hangzhou and other parts of China, tens of thousands of people just swarming there neck by neck, not a small number of them were not wearing masks. Do they have to pick this time when we only need to wait another week for the contained virus to expire by itself? All the enduring and sacrifices just feel like wasted.
     
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  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    A chance to get out and do something.
     
  18. Josu

    Josu King

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    There are two possible cases under investigation in my hometown's public hospital.
     
  19. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Lots infected in Italy, and ofc this virus comes from a chinese Bioweapons Lab..not animals.
     
  20. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Looking like both legs of the women's olympic football qualifier between South Korea and China will be played in Sydney
     

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