Crime overhaul Discussion thread
- Thread starter pineappledan
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BiteInTheMark
Deity
Simple:
Why not put in the bread from civ 4 while we're at it as well.
HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
Crime as a source of unhappiness should not exist in this game.
Crime as a yields punishment might want to exist, but then it's an isolated subsystem, it probably has no association with city-defense or military training, and it is already brilliantly done by JFDLC.
Remember that happiness overall, for Vox Populi, is a mechanic of manifesting the need for balance between cities, and competition with a global standard. Each particular kind of measurement (yield) on a city either has merits for admitting an unhappiness system, or doesn't - it's up to what game you want the player to be playing.
If you want the player to have to balance city defense (which I don't think you do, but from the poll it seems people do?) then give it a happiness system. If you want the player to think about crime, consider what game decisions would make "fighting crime" an interesting thing, a fun thing, to do while playing VP. If you want the player to have to balance food and production, I. . . don't begin to understand where that aesthetic comes from.
Crime as a yields punishment might want to exist, but then it's an isolated subsystem, it probably has no association with city-defense or military training, and it is already brilliantly done by JFDLC.
Remember that happiness overall, for Vox Populi, is a mechanic of manifesting the need for balance between cities, and competition with a global standard. Each particular kind of measurement (yield) on a city either has merits for admitting an unhappiness system, or doesn't - it's up to what game you want the player to be playing.
If you want the player to have to balance city defense (which I don't think you do, but from the poll it seems people do?) then give it a happiness system. If you want the player to think about crime, consider what game decisions would make "fighting crime" an interesting thing, a fun thing, to do while playing VP. If you want the player to have to balance food and production, I. . . don't begin to understand where that aesthetic comes from.
tu_79
Deity
Yep. I still hope for growth alone for the need.
Enrico Swagolo
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So the tests didn't go well? That's a shame. Will there still be Distress, or is it gone?
Moi Magnus
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Spoiler Off Topic :
Enrico Swagolo
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Either you're speedy like fast food or you've forgotten there's timezones, it's 14th in an hour for me
Get on a plane and head west. Hurry.
In all seriousness I'm very close to a beta. Had some github issues to tackle and tidy up, and am finishing up some balance tweaks on the happiness front.
Here's a changelog, if you're interested:
Code:
Bugfixes and performance improvements
Aztec
Can no longer construct the Well
150% Gold/Faith from kills (was 100%)
Floating Garden gains +10% Food/Production during GAs
Byzantium
TtGoG- none before industrial now applies to Byz as wells
Basilica - reduced faith to 1 per 3 citizens
Babylon
Wall - now provides +2g per Scientist in the city (was +1 culture)
Works a bit better with the UA synergy on hurrying
TR
Scaling gold with era on plunder.
Pillage
Values refactored based on new formula and values in thread
Units
ICMBs now invulnerable to nuclear strikes (does not apply to atomic bombs)
Chariot/War Chariot now the same production cost as an archer, Chariot moved to Animal Husbandry (War Chariot remains at Wheel)
I personally hate this, but vox populi I guess...
Promotions
Glory Hounds - gains 20% city damage reduction (so 80% total reuction with 3 prior promotions)
Slipstream - renamed indomitable, unit gains +25 maximum HP (so 125 HP total) and +25% defense from attacks
Pincer - gains 'ignores ZOC'
Naval Range gone - replaced with Shrapnel Rounds (+50% damage to land units)
Reformation
Sacred Sites - World and Natural Wonders gain +4 Tourism each
Happiness
Reworked luxury happiness method to scale more evenly
Crime now 'Distress' (from lack of Basic Needs) scales off of the city's average of food and production, instead of city defense
Distress takes over as the #1 most important yield deficiency (was Poverty) in terms of citizen hierarchy
Reworked the needs modifier function: needs modifiers from buildings now scale in power based on the size of the city - the algorithm has changed so it's no longer a flat % reduction to the needs modifier, but rather a % modifier to the total modifier versus population.
Math junkies, it works like this:
int iModifier = getThresholdAdditions(eYield); // includes tech median deviation and flat values from CityHappiness.sql
iModifier += getThresholdSubtractions(eYield); //includes all bonuses from policies, buildings, wonders, UAs, etc. - will be negative.
iModifier += iMod; // for building selector UI
int iThresholdMod = getPopulation();
iThresholdMod *= (iModifier + 100);
iThresholdMod /= 100;
Happiness curve for pop in cities is now much smoother, and tech is integrated much more cleanly (should result in fewer per turn swings from unhappiness) (see above)
Specialist unhappiness now .2 (was .25)
Theming Bonus Changes
Amphitheater/Acropolis global theme: 4:tourism: --> 2:tourism: (so 2:tourism: on all theming bonuses, no difference between foreign GWs and your own GWs)
Broadcast tower: 12:tourism: --> 8:tourism:
Globe Theater: 4:tourism: --> 6:tourism:
Royal Library: 2:tourism:--> 4:tourism:
Uffizi: 6:tourism: --> 10:tourism:
Theming Yield Changes
Museum: 5:c5culture: --> 4:c5culture:
Broadcast Tower: 15:c5gold: --> 10:c5gold:
Oxford University: 3:c5science: --> 4:c5science:
Royal Library: 3:c5production: --> 3:c5production:3:c5science:
Hermitage: 5:c5gold: --> 4:c5culture:4:c5gold:
Notre Dame: 3:c5faith: --> 3:c5faith:3:c5goldenage: or 3:c5faith:3:c5gold:
Sistine Chapel: 5:c5faith: --> 3:c5faith:3:c5culture:
Broadway: 15:c5gold: --> 20:c5gold:
Needs testing (beta)
peace deals with cities fix
coup chance reworkG
Enrico Swagolo
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Glory Hounds Denmark will be a sight to behold. The only problem is Baby Wall sort of takes on Persia's niche (which also gets Gold per specialist), but it'll work very nicely with the UA thanks to the synergy with Gold so it's going to be interesting to see, pretty cool.
Note that the DR on Glory Hounds (and their ilk) caps at 90% period, so there's a diminishing returns (this cap is to prevent unholy units that can hit cities with impunity).
G
pineappledan
Deity
You addressed my worry about Denmark already. Shame they won't benefit as much from gloryhounds as other civs (only +5% DR for them), but they will probably pick it anyways, since it doubles their city gold.
Holy tourism, Batman! People who play at lower difficulties are going to have a party with this
+50% sounds really high, I guess we'll see if it isn't too much
Is that in addition to the current bonuses?
Holy tourism, Batman! People who play at lower difficulties are going to have a party with this
Have you decided which one you're going to go with?Notre Dame: 3--> 3
or 3
I'm happy my Bomb Ketch promotion idea got picked up!
+50% sounds really high, I guess we'll see if it isn't too much
Last edited:
BiteInTheMark
Deity
The option the OP didnt make to vote for is...... Crime by defence AND distress by food/hammers. 
Maybe the next version will be the one that hits the happiness system on the head and reaches gold status, but before I forget it, I just want to get rid of an idea I have.
I could imagine we reintegrate crime additional to distress, but give it an other flavor.
Crime is now changed to "threat" and the positive aspect to "safety".
"Threat" isnt influenced by yields, but by the location of the city.
The city checks the inner circle first and is defined by 4 tiles distance:
- More owned tiles in the inner circle decrease the threat, also tiles from vassals and defence pact partners to a small part.
- More tiles of foreign nations increase the threat, the effect increases, if enemy is hostile towards the player or at war.
- Foreign cities in the inner circles are dealed in the same way, but have much greater impact than a tile. (allied cities create fire cover and protection, enemy cites create permanent danger)
- Ocean tiles in the inner circle increase the threat a bit, ocean tiles bordering the city directly increase the threat much more (vulnerability towards sea invasions)
- Forts and in stronger version citadels decrease the threat if owned, and increase it if foreign
- Plundered tiles increase the threat
Then the city checks the outer circle, defined by 10 tiles distance:
- Foreign cities in this distance increase the threat, modified by the diplomatic situation (influence only a bit at friendly, greatest influence at war)
- City defence is compared with the surrounding foreign cities, greater threat if foreign cities are more fortified than the own city
I think this idea will be destroyed in short time cause of the required programming, but I simply wanted to think out of the box and wanted to share my idea with you guys.
If your empire grows organic, inner big cities are surrounded by your other cities and create a feeling of safety, effectivly reducing the unhappiness to your biggest cities, upt to zero. But if you control a stretched empire with close borders to others or lot of coastal cities which offer great opportunies to naval invasions, you will suffer in unhappiness by threat.
Maybe the next version will be the one that hits the happiness system on the head and reaches gold status, but before I forget it, I just want to get rid of an idea I have.
I could imagine we reintegrate crime additional to distress, but give it an other flavor.
Crime is now changed to "threat" and the positive aspect to "safety".
"Threat" isnt influenced by yields, but by the location of the city.
The city checks the inner circle first and is defined by 4 tiles distance:
- More owned tiles in the inner circle decrease the threat, also tiles from vassals and defence pact partners to a small part.
- More tiles of foreign nations increase the threat, the effect increases, if enemy is hostile towards the player or at war.
- Foreign cities in the inner circles are dealed in the same way, but have much greater impact than a tile. (allied cities create fire cover and protection, enemy cites create permanent danger)
- Ocean tiles in the inner circle increase the threat a bit, ocean tiles bordering the city directly increase the threat much more (vulnerability towards sea invasions)
- Forts and in stronger version citadels decrease the threat if owned, and increase it if foreign
- Plundered tiles increase the threat
Then the city checks the outer circle, defined by 10 tiles distance:
- Foreign cities in this distance increase the threat, modified by the diplomatic situation (influence only a bit at friendly, greatest influence at war)
- City defence is compared with the surrounding foreign cities, greater threat if foreign cities are more fortified than the own city
I think this idea will be destroyed in short time cause of the required programming, but I simply wanted to think out of the box and wanted to share my idea with you guys.
If your empire grows organic, inner big cities are surrounded by your other cities and create a feeling of safety, effectivly reducing the unhappiness to your biggest cities, upt to zero. But if you control a stretched empire with close borders to others or lot of coastal cities which offer great opportunies to naval invasions, you will suffer in unhappiness by threat.
What is ICMB?
chicorbeef
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If you do this, I would suggest you also move the Well to Wheel so that the Wheel isn't such an empty tech.
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