Cristo Redentor MOST powerful wonder

[troytheface]

"Spiritual used to be king pre BtS, well unless you asked one of the rookies of course. But Cristo, in addition to new changes on how golden-ages work, etc. have all nerfed spiritual so much it fell out of favour overnight with the top players"

top players- lol

yeah they are so good they can't compensate for change.

there is this magical group of self proclaimed top players- they are called "set things to like archepelego marathon and take portugal" types. lol

lets see these "experts" on multiplayer - oh yeah- they don't do that. lol

 

[Rittmeyer]

top players- lol

yeah they are so good they can't compensate for change.

there is this magical group of self proclaimed top players- they are called "set things to like archepelego marathon and take portugal" types. lol

lets see these "experts" on multiplayer - oh yeah- they don't do that. lol

the "strategy" you present in your countless and ever more stupid posts might be reason enough to not play MP. go make your "atack horcruxes" and leave the useful threads to people who play the game more often then they use heavy drugs.

 

[jacklours]

"Spiritual used to be king pre BtS, well unless you asked one of the rookies of course. But Cristo, in addition to new changes on how golden-ages work, etc. have all nerfed spiritual so much it fell out of favour overnight with the top players"

top players- lol

yeah they are so good they can't compensate for change.

there is this magical group of self proclaimed top players- they are called "set things to like archepelego marathon and take portugal" types. lol

lets see these "experts" on multiplayer - oh yeah- they don't do that. lol

Hmmm, I used to think you were somewhat funny at first when I joined the forums. But recently all your post look like you're a bitter old man. Not sure what's been happening in your last MP games, but you should get over it. It's just that ... a game.

The evidence is clear .....No it's not,you sound like a desperate bitter old man. ''Hey hey look at me down here I'm good too please tell me i'm good. Come play MP so I can beat you and tell everyone how good I am.''

Quit the whining.

 

[hexem3117]

Guys, calm down, he's just poking fun. He always does this. It's an elaborate joke, and it's pretty funny IMO.

 

[Insanity_X]

Tracko stopped being funny when he jumped the shark and played a game for us to see. since then he's just been lame.

 

[Rittmeyer]

The fact that this loser has a fan club composed of a minority of the people in these forums doesn't mean that his stupid and never helpfull comments should be well accepted by the majority.

 

[shyuhe]

I am confused, so to have a cristo that only allows one change per turn I have to buy a new bts, brand new? newer than last christmas season? how would I know what the actual release date on a specific bts box would be?? or is there an update available...

nerfed??

You don't have to buy a new bts, just patch to 3.19, assuming you want to weaken Cristo .

And I agree with TMIT - it's an excellent wonder but it's just as nice capturing it from the AI. I always mark the city that has Cristo the moment it gets built by an AI in case it's a readily accessible city

 

[Udey1]

Guys, calm down, he's just poking fun. He always does this. It's an elaborate joke, and it's pretty funny IMO.

Yeah the new MP teens who have been popping up on the forums recently are not familiar with Troy.

 

[mirthadir]

Obviously no wonder touches AP in the "most powerful" sector. Building CR doesn't effectively win the game for you 9/10 times.

CR is an excellent wonder, assuming of course you're not toast by the time you get there .

I find it hard to go early radio sometimes though. I much prefer military techs, but this is a delicious wonder to capture...worth hunting down similar to the kremlin when whipping/cash rushing or SoL on huge land maps when you are going merc/rep. Or the AP, because having it means you win generally .

Radio is a military tech. Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Part of the value of abusing air power is that you get access to the radio wonders.

Just curios but why does being merc matter for the SoL? If anything having another free spec decreases the value of a second because you may lack a slot.

Personally I'm still a big CR fan. Flipping at will between B and FS (or vassal); FR/OR/Theo; and the rest is quite handy. I can easily rate the AP, the Mids, the Kremlin, GLH, and MoM above it.

 

[Sisiutil]

Cristo Redentor is a long shot from being the most powerful wonder in the game simply because it comes so late. I would advocate the Great Library or the Apostolic Palace for the "most powerful wonder" title (though I myself detest cheesy AP diplo wins and often raze the AP city in my games).

This is not to say I'm not fond of the CR, in fact, it's on my list of late game wonders--unless I'm playing as a Spiritual leader, for whom the CR is a nice bonus (1 turn wait between civics changes rather than 5, plus you keep it out of the hands of other civs). It's fun and useful to be able to switch easily to Universal Suffrage for a spending spree (which is even more powerful when combined with the Kremlin), to Slavery for a little late-game whipping (especially if you're conquering territory and need to deal with those rejoin-our-motherland whiners), to Nationhood for drafting, to Vassalage and/or Theocracy for some extra XPs... well, you get the picture.

I still think Spiritual is a fine trait, I just think that in BtS it dropped from being one of the best (along with Financial and Philosophical) to the vast mid-range of traits (along with Creative, Organized, Expansive, etc.--good traits, but not in the Fin/Phi league). It wasn't just the CR that nerfed Spiritual a little bit, it was mainly the changes to Golden Ages: you now only need 1 Great Person for your first GA, and you can change civics anarchy-free during them. (Plus GAs were made more attractive in other regards--with a new wonder that lengthens them and increased Great Person production.) These changes are what really took away a lot of the power from Spiritual and made some of it available to all non-Spiritual leaders.

Nevertheless, having the freedom to switch civics easily--and, especially, to switch in and out of them, such as switching to Slavery to whip then out of it to avoid the slavery revolt random event--is still quite powerful, especially in the early and mid-game, long before the CR is available. Plus you get to use your Great People for other purposes, and you don't have to chase the Taj Mahal.

 

[gonzaleslayer]

Once again, if some of you had read the very first line of my original post, we start later in the game therefore CR comes into play very early. I know for the purists they probably point their chins to the sky at this idea but try playing a hotseat from the start, let me know how your months long game went??

anyways...thanks i will have to get 3.19, as the CR is almost always a game winner for us, like really switch all your civics and religion to match someone with a tech you want, you normally get it, than simply switch back to whatever you want/same turn. hardly fair or realistic.

Also no one has spoke to the power of completely controlling your opponents civics with spies, very, very powerful, even if they try to counter it distracts them from what they are doing, and you can always keep EP points cranked while getting advantages of other civics (i.e. serf and US). Especially when you can see what the other guy is building, switch him off so he cannot be building something in capital as easily, flip off emancipation, change their religion and on and on...

WOW, there is some animosity between solo and multiplayer huh??? We have had a couple guys recently start playing multiplayer as we do (advanced industrial start) and they get absolutely whipped when it comes to war time. Mainly due to the fact that the computer does not think like a human, humans are cunning and tricky, with the computer you have to be on point but can assume a lot of things. Don't get me wrong, having played our style for the last couple of years, starting from the start I would be the one getting whipped long before war.

One example...Would the computer send out multiple transports with only a few having things in them, making you chose which one to attack, before the landing force comes in or a settler pops onto your land with a great artist and pinches your weak culture city.

...Or would the computer spend a long time amassing a wolfpack of subs out of sight under the ice somewhere to bring into play twenty turns down the road??

In my experience the computer is hardly ever cunning, while it runs a good game hardly ever does it surprise you, especially during wartime. It took how long for a computer to beat the best at chess (with way less variables than civ) because there is not a straight forward formula when it comes to strategies.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Radio is a military tech. Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Part of the value of abusing air power is that you get access to the radio wonders.

Just curios but why does being merc matter for the SoL? If anything having another free spec decreases the value of a second because you may lack a slot.

Personally I'm still a big CR fan. Flipping at will between B and FS (or vassal); FR/OR/Theo; and the rest is quite handy. I can easily rate the AP, the Mids, the Kremlin, GLH, and MoM above it.

I don't know why I said merc, I was tired at the time. Obviously rep is the relevant civic consideration.

Radio opens bombers and subs, but regardless of which of those you plan to use, you need other techs on top of them.

One thing that I don't understand is how people duck the AI going culture...I am often pressed to attack in the 1700's or very early 1800's on immortal on pain of losing to culture. I'd imagine it would be worse on deity. It seems like I'd run out of time to attack such an AI if I went for both radio and another military tech, which is what I was getting at.

But then I see other players never leave their continent and launch the ship at like 1930 AD on immortal, which is perplexing in the extreme since in my game 1-2 AIs would have won culture by then, and possibly someone would have won space also.

 

[Windsor]

Once you can build this wonder it is powerful and arguably the best late game wonder - unless in some specific circumstances where you would need to build the UN yourself in order to be able to win diplomatically. In every other case though I would say the CR is the best. There is nothing 'specific' about the settings where the opportunity to use it will come up.

I said it was a good wonder, nobody denies that. And I didn't say CR needs specific settings to be useful.

But I don't see any reason for ranting about a wonder beeing borderline overpowered and unfair just because it rocks on late game starts. Custom game settings will affect the game balance.

 

[bestsss]

I don't know why I said merc, I was tired at the time. Obviously rep is the relevant civic consideration.

Radio opens bombers and subs, but regardless of which of those you plan to use, you need other techs on top of them.

One thing that I don't understand is how people duck the AI going culture...I am often pressed to attack in the 1700's or very early 1800's on immortal on pain of losing to culture. I'd imagine it would be worse on deity. It seems like I'd run out of time to attack such an AI if I went for both radio and another military tech, which is what I was getting at.

But then I see other players never leave their continent and launch the ship at like 1930 AD on immortal, which is perplexing in the extreme since in my game 1-2 AIs would have won culture by then, and possibly someone would have won space also.

You can use subs if you have oil which you can trade for (seriously).
Ducking the culture: deny the Sistine. Or bribe someone to war the civ going for culture (indeed easier said than done) Or make the civ switch early to theocracy, so it doesn't get extra religions.

On the topic: I love the jesus dude. It a very powerful wonder when the time is right.
If I feel safe and have enough land I can go for it w/o military.

 

[Oggums]

Once again, if some of you had read the very first line of my original post, we start later in the game therefore CR comes into play very early. I know for the purists they probably point their chins to the sky at this idea but try playing a hotseat from the start, let me know how your months long game went??

You are playing the game in a way that very few others do. When you make a bold statement in your title, and don't also mention in the title what type of game settings you're playing with, what kind of reactions do you expect?

Good or bad, most people are going assume a "normal" game when they read the title, and from the title alone many players will feel compelled to say, with confidence, that it's "too late" to be the most powerful wonder.

 

[mirthadir]

I don't know why I said merc, I was tired at the time. Obviously rep is the relevant civic consideration.

Radio opens bombers and subs, but regardless of which of those you plan to use, you need other techs on top of them.

One thing that I don't understand is how people duck the AI going culture...I am often pressed to attack in the 1700's or very early 1800's on immortal on pain of losing to culture. I'd imagine it would be worse on deity. It seems like I'd run out of time to attack such an AI if I went for both radio and another military tech, which is what I was getting at.

But then I see other players never leave their continent and launch the ship at like 1930 AD on immortal, which is perplexing in the extreme since in my game 1-2 AIs would have won culture by then, and possibly someone would have won space also.

Well if the AI is a culture whore you can normally get massive mileage out of just beating down the idiot with rifles + cannons + airships or rifles + cannons + fighters. Prior to nukes, flight is one of the best anti-culture techs as you can use it for an amphib raze mission. Grabbing flight and continuing with infantry + cannons + MGs is not that much of a drag on your economy, particularly if you get good mileage out of airport trade.

But if you simply don't want to invade your best shots are:
1. Religion denial. Found 2 of Confu, Christianity, Islam, and Tao - don't share it with the guys who have lots of religions.
2. Deny wonders. The big ones are high culture wonders built outside AI caps. So the Aesthetic wonders can be big and you also do well to trade around techs that enable multiple wonders (like masonry, Aesthetics, Theo) so that as much possible all the big culture wonders are not in cities 2 and 3. Some wonders are also important for their culture effects (Sistine is the biggest, but also Oracle for the free religion, Parth for more GA, and Taj). The hate people have for getty GA pollution in the GP pool does concentrate those wonder GPP into the culture whoring AIs.
3. Win music and lib, be slow to trade lib. The ai is slow to tech lib once it is won, if you can win lib early the AI won't go for it and the longer an AI lacks FS the longer you have to win.
4. Start wars (dangerous if they get rolled too quick and you can't bribe a peace).
5. Muck up their civics with spies and the UN.
6. Trash their cities with spies burning cathedrals is always good.
7. Don't let them found the good culture corps.

Normally if I never in war I'm banking on AI-AI wars or I've utterly nerfed AI teching/early culture by hoarding wonders and religions. Spies are a fallback and stopping the AIs from founding the good culture corps is normally get there first (Sushi, perhaps CreCon) or gifting another AI the techs when they pop the correct GP.

'

 

[mirthadir]

You can use subs if you have oil which you can trade for (seriously).
Ducking the culture: deny the Sistine. Or bribe someone to war the civ going for culture (indeed easier said than done) Or make the civ switch early to theocracy, so it doesn't get extra religions.

On the topic: I love the jesus dude. It a very powerful wonder when the time is right.
If I feel safe and have enough land I can go for it w/o military.

Anyone know if getting SE via conquest or AI spread works as well for the subs? I think it does, but can't think of which game where I believe I got SE by dint of taking an AI's city.

 

[Fluxx]

My wonder rating goes about his.

Pyramids > TGL > Mausoleum > CR > Kremlin = SoL.

CR is very usefull indeed, but it comes (very) late. Ofcourse when you have it, and when the game wasn't already won without CR, this wonder can bring you the victory.

However there are only a select few people who can say with confidence CR won them the game.

 

[obsolete]

i just find it useless - doesn't suit my style of play. Once I graduate from what? You gotta be joking me.

Well in that case, I stand corrected. You Sir, and others who wish to stay in despotism, etc. until game's end are quite correct. But even still, there are denial values, etc., so calling it useless is just asking to have others in this thread call you out on it.

 

[bestsss]

mirthadir, yes standard ethanol should work but you need the tech: plastics+corporation for, so you need combustion anyways.