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Cross-Platform Editor for Conquests now available!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Quintillus, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. Oni Ryuu

    Oni Ryuu Chieftain

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    Thank you Quintillus. Detailed well constructed answers make life so much easier.

    It's a shame that with all the potential manpower on this site that we can't crowd-source an independent game. Ideally just patching together chunks code with simple Boolean logic gates to make it user friendly and universally compatible. It would essentially be a strategy game designer with no copyright protection. I wouldn't be able to offer much beyond ideas and game testing anyway.

    Sorry, if you gave me the universe i'd ask if you had it in blue.
     
  2. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Hmm, interesting. I'll have to think about why that might be. I see you have Civ installed in C:\Program Files (x86), which can cause issues with not being able to access files with Windows 7, but it seems like it's working with start.bat... not sure off the top of my head what different that would make.

    The warnings in the log are related to not being able to find the nearest city with cultural influence for a certain tile. It's been a long time since I looked at the find-nearest-city-with-influence code, but as far as I remember those warnings are somewhat expected if there are areas of the map with sparse city coverage.
     
  3. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Didn't see your response when posting the above, just Delta Strife's... still getting used to the new Alert system. I'm glad the detailed answers are useful; sometimes I wonder if they're too much information at once, but I generally prefer too much to too little detail myself.

    There have been several attempts at an independent game over the years. Most have been by individuals; there has been at least one effort to organize a larger effort, although timing is difficult with that since everyone's life circumstances are at different places. Steph made some interesting progress with his expanded editor that allows additional eras, and also was looking into his own game at one point, before switching more into modding other games. JimmyH I think it was also was making some progress at one point, but hasn't been on the site much lately; I suspect real life has kept him occupied.

    The most successful progress of this type I've seen on CFC is actually ongoing currently, in the Civ1 forum. That is this project, to create an open-source version of Civ1 that's fully compatible with the original game (and eventually expandable via mods). Although SWY took about a year off, he came back this summer and that project has now progressed, both from a gameplay and completion standpoint, beyond any other one I've seen on CFC. While it may not be Civ3, I think it is an exciting project, and in some ways a paragon of what could be done.

    There's also FreeCiv, which was originally based on Civ2, and has been slowly evolving over the years (being playable for quite awhile). The playable-in-browser version currently gets top billing, but the traditional downloadable version is still available. Although I've yet to get into it like Civ3 or Civ4, in terms of a functioning, open-source Civ-like game that can be added to, it's probably the best bet currently.

    Finally, there's the Apolyton Call to Power II Project. It's interesting because the Call to Power II developers, Activision, gave the Apolyton community (or at least, some of the members there) the source code so they could continue to enhance the game. That's essentially the holy grail of what the CivIII community would like to happen, but Firaxis/2K are not currently willing to do so. You do need to have a functioning version of Call to Power II to play the expanded version, but you can buy that fairly inexpensively (and digitally) at GOG. This is something I plan to try in the next year, but it's worth noting that there hasn't been an update in 5 years (the project started 13 years ago), so the chances of further releases is likely slim.

    At this point I think the most likely seed for an effort like this would be a prototype that was at least somewhat playable, and made open source. And unless you could find someone who had as much free time and interest in Civ3 as I did 6-8 years ago, and as many skills as I do now, you'd need to have a couple additional programmers jump on at that point. Once that ball got rolling, I think it wouldn't be too difficult to get other people jumping on similar to what's happening with CivOne.

    However, it may also be that at this point in time, the Civ3 and Civ4 communities would need to combine efforts to make a community game of comparable depth and breadth. The Civ4 community has a lot of talented modders - it allows more complex mods than Civ3, although it's not as easy to create moderately-complex mods - and I know they're also running into limitations of the game engine, although of a different nature than for Civ3 (in Civ4 you really can add new elements, with enough programming knowledge, but you run into issues like running out of memory more often than in Civ3, where it's really a non-issue). I'm assuming for now that the Civ5 community would be more interested in modding Civ6, as from what I've read so far it seems like primarily a successor to Civ5 (although with some interesting new ideas of its own, and a few elements rekindled from Civ3/Civ4). With the community size of 2007, the Civ3 community would've had a better chance of striking out on its own, but alas, the right project didn't come along at that time.

    There are still discussions going on about both the possibility of a new, similar game, and ways to improve Civ3 despite its current confines, though. The amount of discussion ebbs and flows, and no one knows what it will lead to yet, but there still are some of us who think an interesting project, while perhaps not likely, is at least still possible.

    As for myself, I don't have the time to try to jump-start a project myself currently unless I give up more of my other pursuits than I'm willing to, and even supposing financial concerns were not an issue, I probably wouldn't be willing to trade my current day job (which I enjoy, particularly the people I work with) for working with a remote team on a project, as I've found through experience that I work better with other people in an office than remotely (at least for what I spend most of my time on). But I do still have some ideas stacked up for ways I think Civ3 can be enhanced as it stands currently, and I could see at least a couple of those happening someday. Entirely new gameplay elements aren't possible (well... I do have a rough plan for one, but that's another story), but there I don't think we've completely exhausted what Civ3 has to offer yet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  4. Delta_Strife

    Delta_Strife Chieftain

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    Ohh dang was hoping I was doing something stupid. lol hmmm back to the drawing board.
     
  5. Oni Ryuu

    Oni Ryuu Chieftain

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    Thanks for the post Quintillus. I'd like to say something more positive but I understand entirely.

    If i ever get the backing; I want to start a games company with a small group of professional staff and a "pay per contribution" system for programming and design enthusiasts. It would be a great way for fledgling game designers to get experience, recognition and cash. The constructive criticism of the planets gamer's before a release can almost guarantee a success. The copyright and pay scheme will be a legal nightmare but there's no better way of producing the quality of games people now want. I can see from this website that a large group of people won't agree on any specific path for a game but i just see that as an opportunity to have variations on a theme. I'm sure you can't stand many of the games your friends love even though they're in your favourite category. For example my brother loved Total Annihilation and hates Age of Empires. My style is to show-up and muck-in with no obligations.

    Sorry, I've kind of hijacked your thread. I just wanted to express my appreciation for your work and that of the Civ community. (Head nod to Delta)
     
  6. Thrust123

    Thrust123 Chieftain

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    Download link not working ???

    Ok tried again now hours later and it did work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  7. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    It should be working, but as it's hosted on CFC and there's still some post-migration work being done on the Downloads Database, there may yet be some intermittent periods. I just added the latest version to the Old Versions list near the bottom of the first post; it's hosted by my e-mail provider and should remain available.

    I also realized last night that the editor is now at the same version as Firaxis's editor, 1.03. That won't always be the case (unless someone can convince Firaxis to bring their editor out of retirement), but for now, there's editor version parity.
     
  8. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias Civ3 Modding Archivist

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    ... Why would anyone want to see a new Firaxis editor when we have yours?
    - :Dz
     
  9. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Well, I'm happy to hear that point :). I don't expect any Firaxis updates either, but I did submit a bug report in the CFC Civ3 Bug Reports forum for their editor this week (and which I don't think had ever been reported before), so maybe it will inspire someone at Firaxis to take on a quixotic quest to issue another update to fix a few of the remaining issues in Civ3 and its editor.

    A few years ago I would've thought that impossible, but they surprised me by updating multiplayer after GameSpy went down, so at least one person who was at Firaxis at that time was still interested in Civ3, and thus I now only consider an update an extremely unlikely (but possible) event.

    Ideally I'd like to see something like what Bungie did with Halo PC, where there's a guy who still periodically updates it. He also did a post-Gamespy update, and around the same time fixed a long-standing bug and added support for resolutions up to 4K (from 1600x1200 previously). That lead to Halo being supported to a later date than Halo 2, which came out 4 years later (on PC). Galactic Civilizations II is another example; last December the CEO of Stardock released a patch he'd made for it even after its successor was out, because there were still some loose ends and ideas with it that he wanted to finish up. In all likelihood there won't be another bugfix release, but the multiplayer one already puts Civ3 relatively high up in the years-from-release-to-last-official-patch category (11-12 years if you count from Conquests; 13-14 from Vanilla).
     
  10. Oni Ryuu

    Oni Ryuu Chieftain

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    Hi, this guy again.

    I’m told that you can add extra eras to an editor. Is that possible?
    I can see my game taking another two years with that feature.

    Pre historic, Agricultural Revolution, Ancient, Classical, Dark Ages, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Age of Discovery, Industrial Revolution, Social Revolution, Age of Ideology, Total Warfare, Space Age, Computer Age, Age of Terror

    I want the lot from Homo erectus knapping flint to modern experimental tech such as magnet guns and scramjet aircraft. I’m not interested in future tech because no one can speculate with any degree of accuracy what we’ll be using.

    If it can’t be done, at least it will allow me to see daylight this year.
     
  11. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Good news for your Vitamin D levels, that can't be done in my editor. I've tried the option, and the game simply does not support it, thus there was no benefit of enabling it in the editor.

    Bad news for your Vitamin D levels, Steph's editor does support it, experimentally at least. How it works, as I understand it, is that there can be at max 4 eras per game, just like the base game. But you can add extra eras to the BIQ file, and Steph's editor can monitor the autosaves, checking to see when all civs have left the first era. At that point, that era is removed and the fifth one is added, and so on and so forth. Units from the previous era are upgraded, I think, and I reckon buildings become no-prerequisite.

    It's still experimental, and I'm not sure if Steph finished the scenario he was designing with it, or indeed if there are still gotchas in his editor's support for it - unfortunately for Civ III, he moved on to other interests before completely finishing that line of work, although I understand the reasons behind it. But if you want more than four eras, that's the best option.

    I do hope you're wrong about the age after the Computer Age though. Despite the "war on terror" rhetoric, I think the result of the fear of terrorism is on the balance worse than the terrorism itself. I'd much rather live in a freer society in, say, the Green Age rather than a more restrictive one in an Age of Terror. I'd be happy to leave that to the French Revolution and guillotines!

    One other note is that I don't believe my editor supports extra-era BIQ files from Steph's editor (though I haven't tried, so I can't rule it out entirely), so once you go down that route, you're committed to Steph's editor, at least at this time. One alternative would be sub-dividing eras within the existing four eras, with "bottleneck" techs between each sub-era.
     
  12. Thrust123

    Thrust123 Chieftain

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    • Being able to place landmark terrains of any type.
    Hi, Iafter loading a biq file I used the TERR tab to try and make a new coast type that would have more movement cost. I filled in the Landmark Terrain Name as LM Coast and saved.
    After that I've opened the biq file in the regular Civ Editor and placed that LM Coast terrain type on the map but what it actually places is just a LM Sea terrain. Is there anything else I need to do to enable having a LM Coast terrain type that would be exactly as the regular Coast terrain type only with a difference in the Movement cost ? Thanks
     
  13. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    The Firaxis editor does not support adding LM Coast (or any other LM terrain that it doesn't allow enabling). In order to add LM Coast, it's necessary to paint the terrain in this editor; just enabling it on the TERR tab and modifying the map in the Firaxis editor will result in the behavior you described.

    Once you've painted the LM Coast in this editor, however, the Firaxis editor (and the game) will load it up correctly, and will allow it to remain if you save the file in the Firaxis editor.
     
  14. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Version 1.04

    Version 1.04 is now available. This version restores the Unit Download (aka CFC Workshop) functionality, as I realized last weekend that it probably needed some updates to work with XenForo, and sure enough it did.

    The CFC Workshop is described in this post.

    It also fixes a bug where the Input from SAV option would erroneously try adding .biq to the .sav file when opening it, and thus be unable to open it.

    One note is that the download-on-clicking-the-download-button functionality currently starts working once the unit page is fully loaded. This occasionally takes a little while, and this seems to happen more often than on vBulletin. You can know that it's ready when the tab's title updates to the correct one for the unit you are viewing, as seen below. If it is not fully loading, try clicking the Reload button on the browser.



    I am curious if anyone has been using the Unit Download functionality thus far. I'm thinking I may clean up some of its rough edges in 1.05, particularly cases where 7zip is not accessible, where the download has the new number in front of the name that XenForo adds but vBulletin did not, and where the .ini file in the uploaded file has an incorrect name. But as with everything, priority depends on interest and demand, and there are competitors for that (lately including playing more Civ III, too!).
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  15. Midnight-Blue766

    Midnight-Blue766 The filidh that cam frae Skye

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    Is it possible to change the way Worker Improvements are placed? Because having to click every tile where I want roads and checking the "road" button is a really, really stressful experience. :mad:
     
  16. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    No, but there should be. That's something I missed along the way due to not actually being much of a map maker myself (the only map I've worked on significantly with it doesn't have any tile improvements upfront). Also why I need testers who have different workflows :blush:.

    I'll add that to the next version. It shouldn't be particularly difficult as there is already code for brush-painting map tiles, mainly making sure it isn't possible to add invalid improvements to tiles (e.g. mines on the ocean). In the interim, nearly all BIQs are interoperable with the Firaxis editor, so it can be used for more easily painting worker improvements.
     
    Midnight-Blue766 likes this.
  17. Midnight-Blue766

    Midnight-Blue766 The filidh that cam frae Skye

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    Thank you. You have no idea how easy this will make mine and many other lives.

    As for the Firaxis editor, roads and other improvements do not show up thanks to massive incompetence on the part of Steam. :mad:

    As a side note, you'll add stuff like Rails automatically placing Roads, right?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  18. Oni Ryuu

    Oni Ryuu Chieftain

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    Hi Quintillus, I’ve sent you a private message to avoid your thread becoming embroiled in political faecal hurricane.
     
  19. Nathiri

    Nathiri Commander

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    I was just wondering, is it possible to have more than one building requirement for a city improvement? Currently only 1 is allowed and then that is customizable to require multiples of that same building, but not 2 different buildings.

    Another thing that may be even less likely to be possible. Is it possible to have a building requirement for a unit?
     
  20. Thrust123

    Thrust123 Chieftain

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    Thanks
    When you say: In order to add LM Coast, it's necessary to paint the terrain in this editor, do you mean your editor or firaxis standard? I don't see an option to pain terrain in neither of them ?
    So the procedure to create a second coast type terrain (with different movement cost) would be to do so with your editor in the TERR tab? I did this already, and placed my new LM Coast terrain on the map within your editor. If I click properties it says LM_Sea though. After saving it yours I open the map in the Firaxis edtitor, try to paint some of the LM Coast (the new terrain name does appear), but it paints sea tiles, not coast.

    The reason for all my questions is that, you see, I have a river on a map that is made of Coast only, with two squares wide at most. BUT what I want is that some of those coast squares that make the river cost more MPs for the ships that cross through them up or down river, representing a cataract that makes ships slow down when crossing through them.


    OK NO NEED TO REPLY, VULDACON WAS ABLE TO SHOW ME HOW TO DO IT. THANKS ANYWAY
    Nile River Cataract Terrain.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016

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