Cross-Platform Editor for Conquests now available! 1.51

[Adrain]

@Quintillus
I saw the status by your latest post where it say "Moderator" & "Supporter", but I momentarily misread the latter as "Superstar".
My immediate thought was "That sounds about right ;-)".
Keep up the good work!

 

[Civinator]

@Quintillus
I momentarily misread the latter as "Superstar".

 

[vmxa]

When I go to a sub forum such as cross-platform and I see a list of threads there use to be a icon that alerted the user to the fact that a file was attached. I did not have to open that thread and go through all the post to see, if say a save was attached. Currently I cannot tell that you attached anything, until I open the thread and scroll down and encounter you post with an attachment.

If I have made a post in a thread, I can see my icon and know I have made a post. I use to be able to tell, if any attachments were in a given thread, now I cannot, until I open the thread and scroll through it.

 

[ThesaurusRex]

Tried to use the updated (1.48) version. I've got the Liberica Java 8, restarted.

I click on Conquests Editor.jar, I see this:
View attachment 678519

I click OK.

Nothing else happens.

It seems to be looking for civ3editor.ini, which doesn't exist in the 1.48 download. So I restored the .ini from the 1.44 version I deleted, and I get the same message as I got from that version:
View attachment 678520
The editor acts like I still don't have Java 8 and defaults to Java 11, at which point it's still unusable.

If I manually open with the Java Platform SE Binary or the OpenJDK platform binary, then I get the first setup message again without any further elaboration.

A year later, and I'm using one of my older laptops (still Windows 10) and installed Liberica Java 8 -- the editor still seems to shut down after failing to find civ3editor.ini (which it seems to only produce after a successful start, some kind of catch-22). The Windows XP editor also does this for most of the launch methods except the log doesn't explicitly mention the ini, just "can't find config file". Running Editor_XP.bat seems to be the only way I've gotten it to work. And it doesn't like it when I try to transplant the XP ini to the 1.48 version, giving the same issue as last time.

 

[Quintillus]

A year later, and I'm using one of my older laptops (still Windows 10) and installed Liberica Java 8 -- the editor still seems to shut down after failing to find civ3editor.ini (which it seems to only produce after a successful start, some kind of catch-22). The Windows XP editor also does this for most of the launch methods except the log doesn't explicitly mention the ini, just "can't find config file". Running Editor_XP.bat seems to be the only way I've gotten it to work. And it doesn't like it when I try to transplant the XP ini to the 1.48 version, giving the same issue as last time.

Just to confirm, it was the "Full" Liberica?

The "Full" version of Liberica 11 should also work, but the "Standard" versions do not work. My guess is you have a "Standard" one, as the standard one would fail as soon as it tries to create any of the fancy new graphical components, such as the sortable lists on a few of the tabs, which is does only after it checks for the configuration and asks you where Civ III is installed should it not find it. The Editor_XP.bat approach would work because that .bat file tells it to use the specific version of Java that the XP Editor ships with, which includes those fancy graphical components.

The second attachment in your post from November also suggests that is probably what is happening.

Aside from that, I'd have to look at the log.txt file to have any more guesses as to why it isn't working. Or swing by the latest archaeology conference to debug it in person. Would definitely be interested in seeing the latest stegasaurus!

----------

More broadly, I've been looking into what it would take to make the editor work smoothly across Java 8, 11, 17, and 21, the current "long term support" releases. Currently, as long as you have an older Oracle Java 8, or a Liberica "Full" Java 8 or 11, the editor works.

Spoiler Gnarly Details :

Some components, notably the sortable lists and the Histograph view for SAV files, don't currently work with Java 17 or 21, but I've identified a fix via a launcher update, which still has one wrinkle to iron out. Once that works, the editor should work with any Liberica "Full" Java version from Java 8 through 21.

That should somewhat simplify the "getting the editor to run on modern systems" problem, and give it more longevity beyond when Java 8 is retired circa 2031 (which is actually after when Java 11 is retired, because much like as has been seen with this editor, migrating past Java 8 is a bit of a hurdle).

Longer term, a more ideal option would be automatically shipping with the fancy graphical components that Java 8 historically included (but does not always include today). That adds some download size (less important now than in 2009), but also some complexity because it requires platform-specific components to be shipped, and it would probably be necessary to drop Java 8 support in order to include them (although I have one idea for getting around that). Dropping Java 8 support may require other changes in order to continue working with Java 11, for more technical reasons, and would make Windows 7 rather than XP the minimum supported version, which is probably okay 10 years after XP's end of support and the later minimum-requirement bump. But it's not as simple as just saying "Java 17 is required and all the fancy graphical components are included", unfortunately. Still, I have a better idea of how to get there than I ever have before.

Thus, this post is also saying, "If you still run the editor on XP/Vista, let me know before the requirements change".

On the Mac side, if the minimum Java version is increased, the minimum would be OS X 10.11 "El Capitan", and for Ubuntu, 12.04 or later would be required. Today, the minimum is OS X 10.8 "Mountain Lion", and I'm not sure exactly what the minimum on Linux is. Similarly, if you're beholden to 10.10 or Ubuntu 7.04, this is your notice to say something!

The next release will still support Java 8, but after that, I may be bumping it to Java 11 or 17 if I don't hear anything. Although the pace of updates has declined a bit over the years.

 

[ThesaurusRex]

Just to confirm, it was the "Full" Liberica?

I think that's the problem. Because the page now looks like this:

Clicking the big "Windows" button just downloads bellsoft-jdk8u422+6-windows-amd64.msi which I'm going to assume isn't the full version.

Aside from that, I'd have to look at the log.txt file to have any more guesses as to why it isn't working. Or swing by the latest archaeology conference to debug it in person. Would definitely be interested in seeing the latest stegasaurus!

Alas, those are the paleontology bois . Go to a SAA conference and you might be hearing about lithic tools, Mesoamerican migrations or working with tribal offices in cultural preservation. Apparently this year had a symposium about game design and archaeological outreach. I could have brought up Civ!

 

[Quintillus]

Version 1.49 - Java 17+ Compatibility Update is now available!

Changes in version 1.49:

• The editor can now be run on Java 17 and later, not just Java 8 and 11, so long as it is launched with the launcher.
• Adding nameless items is no longer permitted, as they were causing BIQ issues.
• Added warnings to the start page if you start on Java 17 or later without the launcher
• Changed About --> Memory Info to About --> Java and Memory Info, to make it easier to tell which Java the editor is using if you have more than one installed (probably mostly useful for me but maybe also for you if you are running into unexpected issues)
• Improved some of the existing error messaging around incompatible Java versions (updates to posts on this thread are still pending)

Note that the launcher now is recommended. It improves compatibility with Java 8 by giving the editor sufficient memory to edit maps, makes no difference on Java 11, and is required for full functionality on Java 17, 21, and 22.

With the launcher, the editor will run with Java 8 through Java 22 successfully, so long as the "Full" Liberica JDK is installed, or the "JDK FX" or "JRE FX" versions of the Azul/Zulu JDK. If one of those is not being used, there is nothing the launcher can do to restore compatibility.

I've specifically tested it with:

• Liberica 8
• Liberica 11
• Liberica 17
• Liberica 21
• Liberica 22
• Azul/Zulu 21

The overall hope is that this makes it a fair amount easier to run the editor in 2024 and going forward. Too many of our favorite utilities have become difficult to run unless you have the specific version of the .NET framework that they require, and the editor was at risk of becoming the Java equivalent of that. It's still not quite as future-proof as I'd like, but being able to run on the latest release of Java (22) is a significant improvement over Java 11 from 2018 being the latest major release that was supported.

 

[Adrain]

That's a great update Quintillus.

Like you, I recognise that future-proofing is a critical part of any software. May these updates give it the extra legs to last for many years to come.

 

[Quintillus]

Clicking the big "Windows" button just downloads bellsoft-jdk8u422+6-windows-amd64.msi which I'm going to assume isn't the full version.

They did indeed change the download page. I have added updated instructions to the Downloads Database page, which should be accurate and more specific (I've also now updated the first post information).

Alas, those are the paleontology bois . Go to a SAA conference and you might be hearing about lithic tools, Mesoamerican migrations or working with tribal offices in cultural preservation. Apparently this year had a symposium about game design and archaeological outreach. I could have brought up Civ!

Ah, so that's the difference! I suppose that's why Civ VI archaeologists never uncover dinosaurs, that isn't their job. Archaeology does come up in games from time to time. Will be interesting to see if it has a role in VII.

 

[Quintillus]

Quintillus updated Cross-Platform Civ3 Editor with a new update entry:

1.49 - With Correct Launcher

While firing up the editor to do some editing tonight, I realized that the old version of the launcher had slipped into the final 1.49 version .zip file. Thus, it's time to post it again, with the correct, updated launcher version that really does work with Java 17 and 21.

No changes to the editor, just the launcher. The time stamp of the launcher should be 8/27/2024 (or so, depending on your time zone), rather than 8/10/2024.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Quintillus]

Quintillus updated Cross-Platform Civ3 Editor with a new update entry:

Version 1.50

Changes:

- Fix the map pane freezing up if you scroll down too quickly (new bug in 1.49)
- Warn you if you attempt to add a 33rd civilization

You can still add a 33rd civ, in case you wish to add a replacement civ but still have the old one around for reference for a while before returning to the limit. But you'll no longer accidentally wind up with 33 civs and an unplayable BIQ.

The scroll bug was the remains of an unsuccessful optimization. With its removal, the map now behaves...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Lord_Hill]

Working great so far using Liberica JDK 21 LTS, thanks for continuing to plug away at this program.

 

[Quintillus]

Mac How-to-Run Guide (2024 Edition)

Good news, this first issue has been solved with version 1.51. No more mysterious having the editor ask you where Civ III is installed, and then vanishing.

Spoiler :

Today I tried to run the editor on my sort-of-new (2020, bought in 2023) Mac Mini, which I've used for a separate iOS project. It turns out, a few new gremlins have been introduced into running Java programs on recent Mac versions, beyond what had been solved on my prior (2010) Mac Mini, where I believe High Sierra (10.13) is the version which I'd tested on most recently, although I did briefly run Big Sur (11.0) on that 2010 Mini, which proved to be a bridge too far for its aging hardware.

One of those gremlins is curiously similar to what ThesaurusRex described - it fails to detect the Civ3 install location (which makes sense as it is not installed), and then the dialog with which you're supposed to choose where Civ3 is installed fails to materialize. This is the first time that I've personally seen this issue, perhaps because Civ3 is usually among the first programs I install on any computer.

The best work-around I've found for that is to create the folders where it expects Civ to be, even if Civ is not there:

/Applications/Civ III Complete/Civilization 3 Game Data
/Applications/Civ III Complete/Civilization 3 Game Data/Art
/Applications/Civ III Complete/Civilization 3 Game Data/Sounds
/Applications/Civ III Complete/Civilization 3 Game Data/Text
/Applications/Civ III Complete/Play the World Game Data
/Applications/Civ III Complete/Conquests Game Data

By creating these folders, the editor will believe Civ3 is present, and not ask you to specify where it is installed. These are the correct folders for the Aspyr (Mac) version of Civ III, notably the Wine/Steam/Proton configuration is not supported by the editor on Mac (although it is theoretically supported everywhere else that isn't Windows. "Theoretically" meaning I've only tested it recently on Haiku). This is a bit unfortunate as I believe the Aspyr version no longer runs on current versions of macOS due to being 32-bit, but I've spent enough time trying to work around Apple's deprecation of older technology, while Microsoft continues to provide backwards compatibility, to say that if you want to use the editor on a Mac, either emulate the Aspyr file structure and copy the .biq files to the Steam/Proton version manually, or stick with a version of macOS that runs the Aspyr version of Civ III.

Unfortunately, I have no hints as to why the "choose where Civ III is installed" dialog fails to appear. It's using old technology that should be reliable, but isn't, nothing shows up in the logs, and when I try it from the development tools, it works, making fixing the problem difficult. It is a Heisenbug - a bug that disappears when one attempts to study it.

I'm considering altering the startup sequence in the event that Civ III is not detected, particularly as ThesaurusRex's report suggests this can happen on non-Mac systems as well in at least some cases. In particular, back when that dialog was introduced (maybe back in version 0.50, the first release?), the "startup widget" concept, and indeed the startup screen, did not exist. Since the dialog is causing problems, it may make sense to instead have a startup widget that says, "Hey, Civ III isn't detected, either set its location or graphics can be disabled".

I'll probably test how things work on the current version of Kubuntu before making a decision on what do to with this, to have a better-informed view of what's working well where.

----

I have also realized that while the editor now works on Java 17, 21, and 22 on Windows, and should on Linux as well, it does not on Macs. This is because the library I used to integrate with the Mac dock and taskbar does not work with Java 17 or later. It may work on Java 11, pending verification. Thus, if you want to run the editor on Mac, stick with Liberica 8, or try Liberica 11 and if it does not work, uninstall it, and install Liberica 8.

It might be feasible to use a virtual crowbar and nudge that old library into cooperating with newer versions of Java, but it may have to be removed, which may break operating system integrations. On the plus side, Java 9 introduces some improved native integration options, so that old library may not be required once Java 11 is the minimum version.

----

This also means that if you are a Java developer and you like running Mac OS, there's an opportunity to help out with improving the editor's compatibility there. Back in 2010, cross-platform was a main part of the editor's appeal, but at this point, the capabilities it adds for scenario making are likely more important, and it's harder than it was back then to write Java software that works well on Mac (due to changes from both Apple and Java), and also harder to run early-2000s software (Civ III) on Mac. Plus along the way I got this moderator badge at CivFanatics and found a bunch of other side projects... so all else equal I'd like to keep the "cross platform" accurate, but I'd probably rather focus on other side projects that are more personally interesting (some of which also happen to include Civ III, and one of which is enabled by a secret feature in one of the recent editor updates).

 

[Quintillus]

Version 1.51

Version 1.51 focuses on some UI improvements to the map tab, but also adds a couple bug fixes.

Map tab:

- Brush size now affects Fog of War. No more painting one tile at a time if that's not what you want.
- Entering Fog-of-War painting mode automatically turns on the Fog of War layer
- Customize the cursor on the map tab, to make it easier to tell which mode you are in. "Select" mode has its own icon, and there are two others.
- The top five buttons on the map tab now have selected states, also to make it easier to tell what mode you are in
- Remove never-functional "Add Unit" button, add tooltips to remaining map buttons, including what their single-key shortcuts are
- Adding missing label for "AI Strategy" on the window where you can set unit names and strategies

Elsewhere:

- Add a readme.txt file that provides potential workarounds to problems, primarily related to if the editor does not start for some reason
- Fix the dialog to select Civ's install directory not showing up in some cases, notably on my Mac and perhaps on ThesaurusRex's PC
- The tech blurb preview is now two lines long, so they all fit (unless you have a really long one that won't fit in-game)

Additional improvements to modern Java/Mac compatibility remain pending, but this should address a few more tripping points with getting the editor up and running, and I'm left wondering why I didn't think of those map improvements years ago.

Download the Update

 

[SayHayKid]

@Quintillus I was trying to help another user by exporting a BIQ from a save file, but got the following error. I am running the Windows version of C3C via WINE on MacOS so that might be causing the issue. I still can't open the map functionality either, but the main editor works fine. Anyhow, here is a screen shot of the error.

The file path is not correct. Towards the end of the path it says ../Conquests Game Data but the actual path is ../Conquests.

 

[Quintillus]

@Quintillus I was trying to help another user by exporting a BIQ from a save file, but got the following error. I am running the Windows version of C3C via WINE on MacOS so that might be causing the issue. I still can't open the map functionality either, but the main editor works fine. Anyhow, here is a screen shot of the error.

View attachment 705059

The file path is not correct. Towards the end of the path it says ../Conquests Game Data but the actual path is ../Conquests.

That would be because Wine is not supported by the editor on Mac. It assumes the Aspyr path for Civ III is present if it is running on a Mac, but with Wine is uses the Windows path instead.

If you create an installation that mirrors the Aspyr folder structure, where "Conquests" is "Conquests Game Data", and similarly for "PTW Game Data" and IIRC "Civilization III Game Data" as well, it should work. That is what I've been using to test on Mac, and it works whether you are on PowerPC, Intel, or M1. Though unfortunately it doesn't work for playing the game on versions of macOS/OS X that have dropped 32-bit support, so in practice it would mean having two installations, one to play the game with Wine, and another to edit scenarios with the Aspyr folder strucuture.

That isn't ideal, and I was starting to look into adding an option to always use the Windows structure even on Mac after 1.51, but got bogged down in trying to get Civ III to run via Wine on M1 (as someone who only uses M1 for iOS development, i.e. quite rarely), and then got distracted by other projects and a week off, and haven't come back around to editor updates yet. It might make more sense to just add an "always Windows path" option first, before sorting out getting GOG Civ3 running on the Mac Mini, as that's likely what the solution is anyway.

On Linux (as well as Haiku and other less-common operating systems the editor can run on), the game always uses the Windows path as it assumes you must be using Wine, or just editing for another computer. But since Mac has/had a native port, the behavior on Mac is set up to accommodate that. It seemed like a good idea in 2009.

The other far-out option that I have not tried but might work is to run a Windows version of Java on Mac via Wine. Most likely that would go horribly wrong and the editor wouldn't start or Java would crash, second-most-likely it would start up but still realize it's on a Mac, but there's an outside chance that the editor would be fooled into thinking it was running on Windows and use the Windows paths and it would all magically work.

 

[Lord_Hill]

A command line arg to force windows paths on Mac makes sense to me. Seems a shame for the cross platform editor to give up support for the Mac port given its origins.

 

[register]

I installed this editor and planning to design a scenario with it. However, I do not want to read all 76 pages of information about it, therefore I need to ask... I see see this editor is visually pleasant and more intuitive than the original editor but apart from this and maybe a small advantage for adding 2 more fractions, what are the benefits of using it over vanilla editor?

 

[SayHayKid]

@Quintillus I am having the same problem I had before with the shellfish resource. I have FOUR resources at the bottom of the list, all of which I can not delete, move, or even add to terrain. When I add them to the terrain and then save the BIQ, the resources are instantly removed from the terrain.

The four resources AFTER "Large Game" are the culprit: Seals, Sheep, Shellfish, and Pearls. It also causes an error with Steph's editor. If I try to delete them in the Firaxis editor, the editor crashes and shuts down. I reconstructed the BIQ from scratch after the previous issue since I hadn't heard back from you for a while. The last time it was also resources at the end of the resource list. I don't have a crazy amount of resources like RARR or anything, so I don't know what is up.

 

[Quintillus]

I installed this editor and planning to design a scenario with it. However, I do not want to read all 76 pages of information about it, therefore I need to ask... I see see this editor is visually pleasant and more intuitive than the original editor but apart from this and maybe a small advantage for adding 2 more fractions, what are the benefits of using it over vanilla editor?

I made an attempt to summarize the advantages in the first post, but it has evolved over time. That post says:

• Being able to place landmark terrains of any type.
• Being able to have maps of more than 362 tiles in either width or height (although not both at the same time).
• Being able to bypass arbitary Firaxis limits. For example, with this editor, you can give a building more than 100 culture per turn, or give buildings negative maintenance costs.
• Deepwater harbour support.

Some additional specifics:

- It's easier to route rivers due to precision controls over their paths along tile edges
- Circular upgrade paths and the Phantom Resource bug are detected by the editor so you can catch them up front
- You can filter the tech, unit, building, and good (resource) tab lists. Want to see all buildings that have the Expansionist attribute or all units available to Persia that cost less than 60 shields? It's searchable.
- Support for guided creation of custom Civ colors (I'm not sure anyone's ever done this with the editor yet, beyond the ones I've created while developing it, but it's likely the easiest way to do so)
- The most advanced create-a-map-from-satellite-imagery option currently available.
- Pasting in city or leader lists from text files. I think it was georgestow who created city lists per civ and posted a link to them from here circa 2010, this feature makes those quick to use.
- Can assign wonder/small wonder traits to non-wonder buildings
- Can select unit icons by clicking on them rather than figuring out what their numerical index is
- Can assign constructed buildings to multiple cities at once, based on size/owner criteria, speeding up the creation of cities for prebuilt-map scenarios
- Can relocate whole cities should you decide to adjust their placement
- Can get a text diff between two BIQ files, so you can compare what has changed more easily
- Can extract a BIQ from a SAV file, should you lose the original BIQ

There are others, but those are many of the highlights from the "Tips and Tricks" widget that is used on the start screen.

I see it as more of a "victory by fifty small advantages" than "two or three killer features" situation. Which of those fifty small advantages are useful to an individual scenario creator will vary, but enough people have found that it adds up to a worthwhile advantage to reach Page 76 of the thread.

@Quintillus I am having the same problem I had before with the shellfish resource. I have FOUR resources at the bottom of the list, all of which I can not delete, move, or even add to terrain. When I add them to the terrain and then save the BIQ, the resources are instantly removed from the terrain.

The four resources AFTER "Large Game" are the culprit: Seals, Sheep, Shellfish, and Pearls. It also causes an error with Steph's editor. If I try to delete them in the Firaxis editor, the editor crashes and shuts down. I reconstructed the BIQ from scratch after the previous issue since I hadn't heard back from you for a while. The last time it was also resources at the end of the resource list. I don't have a crazy amount of resources like RARR or anything, so I don't know what is up.

Will take a look at it - I'm much more active here than I was in the spring, due to some real life changes (of the positive variety) this spring.

One question, were those resources added with the 1.49 version or later, or 1.48 or earlier? 1.49 should have fixed the cause I found for that issue, although it's possible that there is a secondary way that can happen. But if it was created with 1.48 or earlier, that's also good to know as then I can repair the BIQ and re-post it but don't need to go hunting for a secondary cause of that resource problem.