CTIV-6: Germs! Germs Everywhere!

[mucco]

Ok, here is my first turnset in this game. A quiet turn.

Turn 285 (1830 AD)

I spend some time watching the map, all seems to be in order.
I make a deal, but I'm not sure of my action. I gave copper to liz in exchange for fur + 10gpt. While 10 gpt help our economy, and fur brings 2 happy faces to every city with a market, liz doubles the speed of SoL, which she's already building for sure (she has emancipation, so she knows the tech). Was that a wrong deal? IMO we don't have any chance to get that wonder anyway.

Rome finishes: Observatory
Samarqand grows: 10
Pharsalos finishes: Theatre
Thermopylae grows: 9

Turn 286 (1832 AD)
Rome begins: Grenadier

Some military, because rome has no infra to build. I had almost chosen a forge, then I remembered the rules (I printed them, so I don't forget any).

Pharsalos begins: Library
Tech learned: Biology

Going for medicine! Must fight the germs!

Shangian finishes: Colosseum
Delphi finishes: Aqueduct
Sparta's borders expand

Turn 287 (1834 AD)
Research begun: Medicine

When we research this tech, our economy will slow down a bit, since we're revolting and we're stopping infra to build hospitals. But germs are germs

Shangian begins: Observatory
Delphi begins: Library
Delphi begins: Harbor
Whoops, I catched this in time.

Time to do some tech trading: I try to avoid Roosevelt, since he seems the worst enemy of toku ATM. I make two deals:
1. Biology to Toku => Constitution + 790g (where did that gold come from?). Relations improve 2 points, now at +14 overall.
2. Biology to Catherine => Steam Power + 130g. +2 rel, overall +1.
This all upsets liz a bit.
Science goes to 90%, losing 80 something gpt. But we have 1147 in bank now, we can afford that to get medicine ASAP.

Neapolis finishes: Colosseum
Shangian grows: 18
Athens finishes: Courthouse
Thermopylae finishes: Courthouse

Turn 288 (1836 AD)
Neapolis begins: Observatory
Athens begins: Library
Thermopylae begins: Library
Rome finishes: Grenadier
Samarqand's borders expand
Pharsalos grows: 8
Athens grows: 11

Turn 289 (1838 AD)

Toku comes offering democracy for steam power + 960g. Well, democracy is tempting, but SP is worth more in beakers, and you're asking me all that moey for it? No way this time.
I notice a couple of things in rome: first, we aren't getting the Organized Religion bonus , why? Someone can explain this to me please? Rome is hindu so it should get the bonus. I mean, we pay a bunch of money for that civic, and we don't reap the benefits???

I also see that the city has two unimproved seafood tiles. Maybe it's a specific rule? **checks the rules and finds nothing** I think I'll build two workboats to net that food.

Rome begins: Work Boat
Rome finishes: Work Boat

Turn 290 (1840 AD)

Second workboat.

Rome begins: Work Boat
Rome finishes: Work Boat
Pharsalos finishes: Library
Delphi finishes: Harbor
Thermopylae's borders expand
Corinth grows: 6

Turn 291 (1842 AD)
Rome begins: Worker

I build a worker because I want to improve all that forests and to prepare ourselves for the railroads. I think we have too few workers.

Pharsalos begins: Courthouse
Delphi begins: Grocer
Rome finishes: Worker
Thermopylae finishes: Library
Golden Age ends
Sigh.

Turn 292 (1844 AD)
Thermopylae begins: University
Rome begins: Grenadier
I also work on some military, we are a bit weak in the graph. I didn't set up a massive production though.
Cumae finishes: Rifleman
Shangian grows: 19
Shangian finishes: Observatory
Samarqand grows: 11
Delphi grows: 8
Athens finishes: Library

Turn 293 (1846 AD)
Cumae begins: Grenadier
Shangian begins: Taoist Temple
Athens begins: University
Athens grows: 12

Turn 294 (1848 AD)
Tech learned: Medicine

Medicine in. Notice that it actually was finished in the interturn, so I legally "learned" it in the next turn. This allowed me to avoid the civic change, provided the next player does it himself in his turn 0. I did that because we can have a bit of discussion about which civics to adopt now.

Rome grows: 15
Antium grows: 16
Pharsalos finishes: Courthouse

Turn 295 (1850 AD)
Research begun: Corporation

I chose corporations, because that is a cheap tech and the boost is nice. Plus, I was able to make some tech trading, and I didn't manage to get that tech.

Pharsalos begins: Hospital

First hospitals... This will slow our infra builds much. EDIT: hospitals are very good to cure people from germ-related illnesses and to set broken legs...
Now to the tech trading. Three deals are made:
Medicine to Elizabeth => Physics + 90g
Medicine + Military Tradition to Catherine => Railroad + 90g
Medicine to Tokugawa => Democracy + 50g + Stop Trading with Kublai Khan.
For medicine we get three more techs, plus 230g. In addition, toku's embargo against kublai will make the relations between the two drop. Kublai looks like a good ally of Cathy:

We don't want this MPP, it basically forbids us to attack kublai. But if he hates toku, maybe he'll attack him... They are almost even in power.

If they go to war, we could backstab whoever we want. I'll suggest toku, if we are ever going to attack someone.
Roosevelt still misses biology and economics, but he has combustion. The next turn we can get it from him. We'll be between the tech leaders at that time:

No surprise, since looking at the graph we are first in GNP.

The table ranks us as 5th (I think), however.
Civics: the swap must be made at turn 0. Environmentalism is forced, then? Free Speech could help us more than bureaucracy; Emancipation will help with happiness problems, and caste system is only actively used in a couple of cities; Universal Suffrage will help our production MUCH, since we have many towns and no forges, and will allow us to pay for infra. I'd change these four civics, religion is OK IMHO, although the costs are very high we need production.
Did I forget something? I'll remember it right after I've posted the report, for sure Nobody can escape the Murphy's Law!
Criticism more than welcome, I need to experience on SGs

mucco

 

[mucco]

Of course I did forget something! Not one, but TWO things! The recon cavalry adventures, and the save. I always forget the save!

Kublai doesn't have a very strong military. He's stronger than us, however...

 

[pholkhero]

OKublai doesn't have a very strong military. He's stronger than us, however...

hmm..good point..and he hasn't even upgraded half his army...a war btwn the two would be good...we would have to take out whomever we choose/we can get to be the aggressor b/c i don't think the defender will lose much in the war...

if we attack,that is

 

[Gaspar~]

Since ChrTh is out of pocket, I'll post the roster in his stead.

Roster
ChrTh > Skip til 4/1
pholkhero > On deck?
mucco > Just played
hamtastic > Skip Until 29th March
JesusOnEez > Recovering (wouldn't playing a health-focused SG do him good?)
Sina > Skip until 29th March
Gaspar~ > Up I guess?
__________________

 

[Gaspar~]

You weren't getting the OR bonus in that screenie because you were building a unit. OR only applies to buildings.

Civicwise, I haven't looked at the save to see whether we'd get more commerce from Free Speech or Bureaucracy, though I imagine probably free speech at this point. This also seems to be the rare game where USuff will do more for us than Representation does, though I'd have to see the happy situation to be sure. Certainly would result in less beakers though, how many less I'm unsure. I think tech pace is the primary concern at this point, getting to Ecology so we can actually build all the hammer boosters.

Emancipation I suppose is a necessity, Caste has limited value outside of wartime really anyway. My one caveat (and a possible argument for going Pacifism) is that I'd really like to have a GA lined up to build Recycling Centers/Forges/Factories. Again, I'd have to see how many turns were looking at for GPs at this point and if its reasonable to expect 3 different types.

The unimproved resources in Rome were pillaged in the Greek war and apparently never reconnected.

I guess I'm up, I'll take a look at it shortly, may or may not play tonight.

 

[mucco]

Only three people that can play, in a roster of 7? Silly.

You weren't getting the OR bonus in that screenie because you were building a unit. OR only applies to buildings.

Really? I didn't know that, I thought it applied everywhere... How many times have I switched to it in wartime for the hammer bonus?

Certainly would result in less beakers though, how many less I'm unsure. I think tech pace is the primary concern at this point, getting to Ecology so we can actually build all the hammer boosters.

Yep, it's true, but we're losing the extra specialist from mercantilism, and emancipation is about 3 so the happiness loss won't be a problem.
Pacifism seems weak to me, while saving much money on maintenance it won't probably help us getting 2 (3?) different GP before the end. The GP pace seems slow, maybe it could be better to sacrifice a single city to food and farm GP there with the NE. OTOH, the OR bonus will be very helpful with buildings (now hospitals, then recycling centers). We will also have the opportunity to rush-build infra.

 

[pholkhero]

@ Gaspar ~ are you playing, or are we on hold until others get back...since the newbie-replacements outnumber veterans if we got to war, it should be within 30 turns, so i'm fine if we wait for more, i guess....after all...i'm just the sub

 

[Gaspar~]

I'll play tonight, sorry should have made that more clear.

 

[pholkhero]

i figured you weer going to play it, but just wasnt' 100%

 

[Gaspar~]

Pre-turn: Checking diplo, looks like we can sign a DP with Cathy, Toku or Roosevelt. I decide to sign on with Toku, since we're about to take a major relations hit by leaving Mercantalism, and I think we're in a infra/military buildup phase and don't really want to take a chance of being blindsided. We can still throat stab him later if we decide to go that route. I guess I'm looking at 2 thrilling anarchy turns, since it seems like USuff, Free Speech, Emancipation, Environmentalism is the right route. I think long and hard about staying in Bureaucracy, because a 3 way revolt leaves the anarchy at one turn, but the combination of needing culture and getting more money from our many towns makes it just to hard to pass up. Here's the demos before the revolution.

My plan for my turns - Suffer the anarchy. Reassess after.

With that, hit enter...

1852(1) - Revolting.

1854(2) - So here's the situation after the revolt.

So. We went from 5th to 1st in GNP. Production dropped from 3rd to 4th, but we're up to 126 from 122. No change in food. Corporation due in 3. After that I'd head towards Electricity -> Fission -> Ecology. But that's just me. Electricity will be dialed up next regardless. MM just about everything to grow. Just going to work the economy, tech as fast as possible, and build enough military to leave that option open. Lizzy starts a GA.

1856(3) - Samarqand finishes a temple, starts a market. We could use more workers to get a railnet going.

1858(4) - Rome Grenadier -> Hospital. Corinth Granary -> Aqueduct.

1860(5) - Corporation in, start Electricity due in 8. Shangian temple -> Hospital.

1862(6) - Livy tells us we're 3rd most advanced. With that spur, send Roosevelt Military Tradition and Democracy for Combustion. Start connecting oil. We're going to need a navy soon.

1864(7) - Antium finishes West Point, starts Hospital. Neapolis Obsevatory -> Hospital. Cathy declares on Roosevelt! Yay! Now if only Toku would declare on Lizzie we'd be golden.

1866(8) - The not-so-great Khan cancels Open Borders. Prelude to war, methinks. Decide I'd better get some units towards Mongolia. Also Upgrade a couple units and slip a few Rifle builds in ahead of infra builds.

1868(9) - Cathy asks us to join the war against Roosevelt. I almost accede as I think we'll not see any troops, but my gut tells me Roosevelt isn't really seeing any troops either. Cathy drops to Annoyed. We're heading towards a Mongol-Ruskie dogpile. Lets hope the Japanese-Roman alliance can stand up to it. We'll be losing Gold and Wine soon, methinks. University -> Rifle in Thermopylae.

1870(10) - Cathy cancels deals that netted us Gold and Wine, as predicted. So I send our freed up gems to Roosevelt for Incense for happiness. Athens Uni -> Hospital. Rome Hospital -> Rifle. Shangian should start Oxford as soon as Hospital build completes. I'd keep slipping in units wherever we can, there's no way we're not going to war again, and we're 2nd to last in military. As soon as the extra corn is rehooked up should see if anyone needs that. Wine, Gold, Silver, anything happiness related, I'm interested. May be worth taking a shot at Broadway after Electricity completes (in 2) but not really sure if anything has the productive capacity for it. Rome will be a powerhouse production city after Factories et al.

No pictures worth taking, pretty quiet turns, 2 in revolt, the rest mostly building hospitals. I'd guess Kublai will declare within 5 turns, so I'd be ready for that. I don't think we have enough military to do it, but I can't build it fast enough. Probably Rome and Antium on nonstop production for a while. Antium has a half built hospital, but I switched it to Rifles for the time being for 3 turn 6 xp'ers. I think our lands plus Kublai's will be enough to win, but we are going to need to strike fast, we have old WW from the first Mongolian war (somewhere around 2000 years ago ) I could be wrong and Toku could still be a viable target, but unfortunately, I don't think its us who will be deciding who to fight next. Cathy declaring on FDR nulled her DP with the Khan, for what that's worth. Also, we're sending Khan Gems for Coal, but we have coal hooked up. Why is it not showing on surplus? For that reason I didn't cancel that deal. If someone else can figure it out, I'd definitely cancel that, since there's no reason to give Kublai a free happy, given the AIs notorious problems with happiness.

Good luck, and the save:

 

[Gaspar~]

Since ChrTh is out of pocket, I'll post the roster in his stead.

Roster
ChrTh > Skip til 4/1
pholkhero > Up, 20 turns later.
mucco > On deck, 20 turns later.
hamtastic > Skip Until 29th March
JesusOnEez > Recovering (wouldn't playing a health-focused SG do him good?)
Sina > Skip until 29th March
Gaspar~ > Just played.

Once Sina and hamtastic gets back, I think we should slot them in ahead of whoevers up, I don't want to keep getting the save back 20-30 turns later.

 

[pholkhero]

I got it...will play tonight, and hopefully post...

"If you want peace, prepare for war." I, most likely, will focus on units for my set, in prep for the coming days . . . hard days ahead gentlemen, but the Mongols (or whoever) ARE filthy people...

 

[pholkhero]

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Preturn/Turn 305 (1870 AD)
Rome grows: 17
Samarqand grows: 12
Sparta finishes: Granary
I upgrade a cat to a cannon, and knight to a cav. I move a rifle, 2 grens and the cav from Rome to Athens, trusting our buddy Toku for now.

Turn 306 (1872 AD)
Sparta begins: Harbor
Tech learned: Electricity
Lix cancels our deal, as does Kubey...mmm...war....

Turn 307 (1874 AD)
Research begun: Assembly Line *thought we could use the miltary tech just in case . . .
Antium finishes: Rifleman
Cumae grows: 14
Thermopylae grows: 11
Cathy demands Democracy, i accede for now, not wanting to provoke...but now, on second thought, she WAS busy w/FDR...

Turn 308 (1876 AD)
Rome finishes: Rifleman
Cumae finishes: Grenadier
Shangian finishes: Hospital
Pharsalos finishes: Hospital
i take an OB request with Liz

Turn 309 (1878 AD)
Rome begins: Cannon
Cumae begins: Machine Gun
Shangian begins: Cannon
Pharsalos begins: Machine Gun
Shangian grows: 20
Pharsalos grows: 11
Thermopylae finishes: Rifleman

Turn 310 (1880 AD)
Thermopylae begins: Destroyer

Turn 311 (1882 AD)
Rome grows: 18
Rome finishes: Cannon
Antium finishes: Hospital
Delphi finishes: Grocer

Turn 312 (1884 AD)
Rome begins: Machine Gun
Antium begins: Destroyer
Delphi begins: Hospital
Cumae grows: 15
I MM delphi a bit here. Hospital was 26t, moved to work second hill=19t...not much, but, it's the only prod it has. Growth went from 1t to 4t.

Turn 313 (1886 AD)
Shangian finishes: Cannon

Turn 314 (1888 AD)
Tech learned: Communism
Shangian begins: Oxford University
Tech learned: Assembly Line
Rome finishes: Machine Gun
Athens finishes: Hospital
Roos wants our Electricty for Communism and 270g. He has no more money and he's one of our few friends, so i say yes. He tells ME it's highway robbery. No s--- dude...that's what i was about to say.

Turn 315 (1890 AD)
Research begun: Fission
Rome begins: Infantry
Athens begins: Infantry
User comment: Pharsalos needs a few more defenders
User comment: If attacked, i think he'd go for sparta as that would be the easiest target...our army in Athens is right near by
User comment: these 2 cavs can move ni upon attack
User comment: Samarqand could use another defender of two, maybe canon...

We're focusing on units in all but a few cities right now...have about 3 destroyers in the works, too...

fission in 7 and then ecology in 8 ~ by the time we get recycling centers, prod bldgs (factories + coal w/no health penalty!), observatories (where needed), and labs in cities, we should just about be done w/all the space techs...we could just synch up as much as poss. then at the end w/the parts...

our only friends (pleased) are toku and roosevelt, liz, cathy and kubey ain't happy with as by a long shot...so...w/cathy fighty FDR, can we get toku onto liz?? or at least to help with kubey?? dare we make "pre-emption" Roman foreign policy (at least it would befit the Civ) and take out the gather threat of the mongol menace??? ahhh...who knows

imageshack has been working horribly slow as of late...at least from my computer here at home, so, unfortunately, no pics...

here's the save though:

 

[mucco]

Got it.

 

[JesusOnEez]

I am back and ready to play so plop me back in the roster!

 

[mucco]

Play the turn then, jesusoneez. I'ev got sudden problems, I won't be able to play in a few days. Sorry all!

 

[JesusOnEez]

ROSTER
ChrTh > Skip til 4/1
pholkhero > Just Played
mucco > Skipped
hamtastic >
JesusOnEez > Up (on his crutches at least)
Sina >
Gaspar~ > Just played.

Hamtastic and Sina should be back in as of today, but since we haven't heard from ol' hammy yet, hopefully no one will mind if I take it.

So, got it!

I'll spend an hour or so reading through the turn logs and getting myself up to speed with what's been going on for the last couple of weeks before I jump straight in.

Good to be back!

 

[JesusOnEez]

Turn 315 (1890 AD)
JOE's comment: I'm taking stock of our nation at the moment and wondering why Cumae doesn't have work boats on the clam and fish tiles.
JOE's comment: I'll assume they were destroyed.
JOE's comment: Rome is our biggest money producer, so I had a look and MM'd to create two more Scientists, taken from water tiles. They'll be sustainable until growth in 11.
JOE's comment: Cumae is 7 turns from growth and unhappiness.
JOE's comment: Neapolis is +2 unhappy. Can't do anything about that until the hospital is built in 3.
JOE's comment: Antium is 8 turns away from unhappy.
JOE's comment: Shangian is currently Stagnant, with three science specialists. I won't alter this as it is also +1 unhappy.
JOE's comment: Athens is also +1 unhappy, and building infantry.
JOE's comment: I don't much like all this unhappiness everywhere. What's wrong with people? Don't they like our healthy ways?
JOE's comment: On we go!
Antium finishes: Destroyer
Pharsalos finishes: Machine Gun
Delphi grows: 10

Turn 316 (1892 AD)
Antium begins: Destroyer
Pharsalos begins: Machine Gun
JOE's comment: New machine gun is fortified in Pharsalos, as is one that wasn't currently fortified.
JOE's comment: Antium's destroyer is given Combat I is keeping with the rules.
Destroyer promoted: Combat I
JOE's comment: I've sent the destroyer out for a recon mission in Kublai's north-western coastal areas.
JOE's comment: Worker near Thermapolae is sent to Uranium and will begin mining next turn.
JOE's comment: Worker S-S-W of Pharsalos starts lumber mill on forest-hill tile.
JOE's comment: Worker N of Samarqand starts lumber mill.
JOE's comment: Worker E-E of Thermapolae goes to help build the Uranium mine.
JOE's comment: Toku's not interested in a fight with Kublai at the moment.
JOE's comment: The only person we might get him to scrap with is Roosevelt, but there's no point (apart from maybe slowing him down in the space race...keep that for later maybe).
Pharsalos's borders expand
Athens's borders expand

Turn 317 (1894 AD)
JOE's comment: We can sustain 100% research for two more turns only, with 318 in the back at -180GPT.
JOE's comment: Damn! Beshbalik is a bit of a cultural monster. We're hanging on to Sparta for dear life by the looks of things (screenshot).
Cumae finishes: Machine Gun
Neapolis finishes: Hospital
Pharsalos grows: 12

Turn 318 (1896 AD)
Cumae begins: Work Boat
Neapolis begins: Theatre
JOE's comment: Athens are demanding a Colloseum! I tell them where to go obviously.
JOE's comment: Neapolis has finished its' hospital and is now building a Theatre to help with the unhappy problem.
JOE's comment: A worker was building a railroad between Corinth and the rest of our dominion. He finished and I've set him working on more railroad to help with getting troops to Kublai's borders quicker.
JOE's comment: Destroyer is now on sentry duty outside New Sarai. I notice this city has an Ironclad sitting outside, and also what looks like a Drydock (screenshot).
Machine Gun promoted: Combat I
JOE's comment: Research will go to 90% now.
Thermopylae grows: 12
Corinth's borders expand

Turn 319 (1898 AD)
JOE's comment: Ack! I've just realised I'm removing a forest where the Uranium is and I tell the workers to stop immediately! Pheew...
JOE's comment: The workers are now building a lumbermill instead.
JOE's comment: The Machine Cumae built is now stationed in Thermapolae.
Rome finishes: Infantry
Antium finishes: Destroyer

Turn 320 (1900 AD)
Rome begins: Infantry
Antium begins: Destroyer
Destroyer promoted: Combat I
JOE's comment: Antium's Destroyer is sent towards Tabriz to perform it's sentry duty there.
JOE's comment: Rome's Infantry is sent to Thermapolae.
Infantry promoted: Combat I
JOE's comment: Toku is still not interested in attacking Kublai.
Cumae finishes: Work Boat
Corinth grows: 7

Turn 321 (1902 AD)
Cumae begins: Work Boat
JOE's comment: Catherine want Gems for Gold. I don't want to annoy Toku, so I decline the offer.
JOE's comment: Cumae builds a workboat and starts another.
JOE's comment: Workers with no ground improvements to make are generally set to building railroad (not on auto I hasten to add).
Tech learned: Fission
Cumae grows: 16
Neapolis finishes: Theatre
Samarqand finishes: Infantry
Pharsalos finishes: Machine Gun
Athens finishes: Infantry
Thermopylae finishes: Destroyer

Turn 322 (1904 AD)
Research begun: Ecology
Neapolis begins: Cannon
Pharsalos begins: Barracks
Athens begins: Infantry
Thermopylae begins: Infantry
JOE's comment: Generally building a lot of infantry.
JOE's comment: I've set Pharsalos building a Barracks (2 turns) since it's on the front line.
JOE's comment: Neapolis theatre finishes and I start it on a Cannon. Was tempted with Globe Theatre but there are better things to build.
JOE's comment: Fission comes in and Ecology started. Comes in 8.
JOE's comment: Thermapolae finished a Destroyer and it's sent towards Cumae's fishing boats for protection.
Infantry promoted: Combat I
Antium grows: 17
Cumae finishes: Work Boat
Shangian finishes: Oxford University
Thermopylae's borders expand

Turn 323 (1906 AD)
Cumae begins: Hospital
Shangian begins: Infantry
JOE's comment: Cumae has started a Hospital.
JOE's comment: Shangian finishes Oxford University and has cut down our research of Ecology by one turn!
JOE's comment: Shangian is now producing 222 beakers at 80%. Blimey.
Rome finishes: Infantry
Antium finishes: Destroyer
Pharsalos finishes: Barracks

Turn 324 (1908 AD)
Rome begins: Infantry
Antium begins: Infantry
Pharsalos begins: Infantry
Destroyer promoted: Combat I
JOE's comment: Antium has finished a Destroyer which I plan to send to Old Sarai on Kublai's SE coast (by frog-hopping the other sentry'd Destroyers).
Infantry promoted: Combat I

Turn 325 (1910 AD)
JOE's comment: Keep an eye on Kublai's Ironclad. It's on the move for the first time in ages (screenshot).

 

[JesusOnEez]

Here are the screenies referred to in the report showing the strain Sparta is under and also the suspicious looking Ironclad.

As an aside, most places are currently building infantry in the buildup to war, and the Destroyers are (almost) in a good position to bombard coastal cities. Kublai has nothin better than an Ironclad (that we've seen) so we should dominate the water.

Also, the prospect of war doesn't bode well for our unhappy cities...

...we could revert to slavery and whip it away, BWAHAHAHAHA!

...or not.

 

[pholkhero]

ROSTER
ChrTh > Skip til 4/1
pholkhero > on deck
mucco > Skipped
hamtastic > still skip??
JesusOnEez > Just played
Sina > still skip??
Gaspar~ > UP NOW (unless the two others show up)