CTIV-9: The Academians

GreyFox said:
Nice turns, ChrTh, but I am still skeptical about the decision of doing the trade. Polythesim is fine, but giving away alpha so early???

It was a calculated risk that so far seems to be paying off, as Mansa doesn't have Lit yet (and hasn't traded Alphabet yet). BTW, I hope I don't have to remind Ruff_Hi to trade Lit for Math once the GL comes in ...

:confused: How the hell did hiring a scientists shave off a turn for production?

Whoops, meant 'cost' a turn. :blush:

I think there will be barb city in the south, and Mansa's SKimishers must be in the southern fog as well. I don't think AI ever delete units.

I'd be very surprised if it's still there. I covered a lot of territory and unless it's fortified somewhere I would've expected to see if it were moving around normally.

EDIT: Re: Alex. Maybe we'll get lucky and FDR will eliminate the little backstabbing jerk. Hopefully not until after we've gotten the GL built, of course.
 
Can you please let a guy sleep. What is it with all the activity here ... yawn.

Got it.
 
As you can see, different people report in different ways. ChrTh is very chronological. GFox is all over the place time-size but does contain a coherent message (!). I sometimes try for the humorous report but this time, I will go for a report full of suspense. ChrTh left me with a build that takes 10 turns and a research path that takes 10 turns. My turn set is 10 turns long. This should make for a gripping, edge of the seat turn set and report - yeah right!

Why do I have to trade maths for lit after the GL? Why not before? I dial up Manny and he will not even trade it - guess that makes that decision mute (or is it moot?) - either way, no can do.

I heal our axes in the south. I also send the archer playing with the elephants over the sheep hill (SE) to fog bust. I think we should have units down there fog busting while we get set up and pull them back if we want to generate some Barbs for training purposes.

Roosevelt discovers maths and is willing to do a trade for letters. I probably should have done the trade but I was still thinking about not trading until after I finish the GL ... so ... no trade.

Can you guess what comes next?

Spoiler suspense :

CTIV-9-sc-005.jpg


Well, how do you like them potatoes? Here we are, getting on very nicely and then Roosevelt goes and spoils it be getting all uppity. Naturally, I say NO to his kind offer which brings us to our next bit of drama.

Spoiler suspense :

CTIV-9-sc-006.jpg


Guess I will have to do some work during my turn set. To start with, I stop the farming of the rice with 1 turn remaining. I really hate spending turns to farm or mine something and then have some inconsiderate $h^t pillage it. I've used this before when building a mine that I also have to road when there are raging barbs about. Mine until there is 1 turn left, then road until there is 1 turn left, then complete both once you have some anti-pillage troops in place. So, we have some anti-pillage rice that is 1 turn away from being a farm.
CTIV-9-sc-007.jpg


Secondly, I pull one of our fog busting axes and the archer that was heading South to fog bust back North. They are going on the Northern Border to start with while I build some military. I left 1 axe South who is currently playing hide and seek with the American archer down there. Re the military build up … cities are moved into production mode, the whip is extracted in some cases. We should be able to produce 2 axes every 3 or 4 turns with the use of the whip. I also chop some forested hills prior to mining them. It is a pity we don't have maths (+50% from chops). I chop all the way to 1 turn and check to see if I can trade for maths … no … so chop anyway. We did grow one forest so I don't feel so bad about the chop.

Here is an update on what is happening in the rest of the world
Spoiler sad news for ChrTh :

CTIV-9-sc-008.jpg


But on a happier note … and I am not hiding this as there is no net increase in the suspense - we all knew it was going to happen …
CTIV-9-sc-009.jpg


Well, that is basically the end of my turn set … no actual battles to report on (Roosevelt the wimp). I am guess that either this is a phony war from his point of view or he is busy building a stack of swords / axes. I don't think he has copper as it was available to trade to him earlier in the round (does that mean he doesn't have it?) but he might have iron - I think that was on his list of items available for trade.

Which brings me to this … why don't we have iron? Here is a bit of my dot map and what ChrTh had to say about it …

ctiv9sc0112ss.jpg


ChrTh said:
I would settle pink -> cyan -> yellow. blue is good because we can build that whenever we want (pink and cyan border expansion will prevent AI from building there)
So, ChrTh - why did you settle blue and not pink on your turn set?

Finally, here is a montage showing the position at the end of my turn set. I think the main reason that Roosevelt declared war can be seen in the top right.

CTIV-9-sc-010.jpg
Spoiler log :

Turn 110 (125 BC)

IBT:

Turn 111 (100 BC)
Shanghai finishes: Worker

IBT:

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Shanghai begins: Archer
Nanjing grows: 2

IBT:

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Axeman promoted: Cover
Guangzhou finishes: Library

IBT:

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Guangzhou begins: Archer
Shanghai finishes: Archer

IBT:

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Shanghai begins: Axeman
4 of 10, Unimatrix 0 (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
Guangzhou begins: Barracks
Guangzhou begins: Archer

IBT:

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Barracks
Guangzhou begins: Archer
Guangzhou finishes: Archer
Nanjing finishes: Obelisk

IBT:
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Nanjing begins: Work Boat
Shanghai finishes: Axeman
Guangzhou grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Shanghai begins: Axeman
Ptah finishes: The Great Library

IBT:

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Ptah begins: Axeman
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Shanghai finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Shanghai begins: Axeman
Research begun: Monarchy
 
Guess those mini-items in the montage don't turn out too clear. The top right is the power graph showing us fairly weak - a natural target for an AI.

save ...
 
I settled Blue before Pink for two reasons:

1) It had more food resources so it could grow faster and thus give us more settlers/commerce for research
2) Greyfox had already moved the settler way past Pink dot anyway and I was too lazy to bring him back

Are we going to try to take Philadelphia?

Wait ... Mansa and Alex are at war?!?
 
ChrTh said:
Are we going to try to take Philadelphia?
YES. For a number of reasons - we always wanted that city and Roosevelt offended me! Take it, then sue for peace but get a tech from him too.

ChrTh said:
Wait ... Mansa and Alex are at war?!?
yeah - good news!

ChrTh said:
I settled Blue before Pink for two reasons:

1) It had more food resources so it could grow faster and thus give us more settlers/commerce for research
2) Greyfox had already moved the settler way past Pink dot anyway and I was too lazy to bring him back
I was going to let GFox point out that the settler was 1 tile away from the pink dot but two tiles away from the blue dot but then I changed me mind. Actually, on second thoughts, I will let GFox point it out.
 
Roster
ChrTh
Ruff_Hi -- Libraries? They're Grrrrrrreat!
Maquis -- UP!
Scowler -- On Deck!
GreyFox
JesusOnEez -- On Holiday!

Don't forget to kill FDR's roaming archer!
 
BTW, Ruff_Hi, nice set of turns! :thumbsup: We got Great Library! :dance: It's a shame we missed on CoL, but I'm hoping the other Civs all have different religions and will start fighting each other (otherwise we may find ourselves in a bit of a tech hole come Caravels)

Definitely make peace with FDR after Philly is ours. Extorting a tech (or two) would be good. Also, we can now trade Lit if we want.
 
There is no more space for AI to grow ... naturally (or programmatically) they go to war for space.

And ChrTh, #1, I left the settler closer to pink dot then blue dot, #2 the reason why the settler is more south then pink dot is not because I want it to go for blue dot, its because I make him rendevous with the barb busting archer for escort.

EDIT: I actually wrote the above before I read ruff's posted response ... hmmm ... am I that predictable??? :lol:

Interesting, the whole continent is at war. :dance:

SO, this is a actually a Battlica Academia ...
 
Re: Blue Dot

I didn't mean tile-wise, I meant thinking-wise. It's like, we're past that, man! Whoops, I think I've may have spent too much time in the Hippie thread :smoke:

In all seriousness, I did want to get the Crabs and Clams for health (and for trading). So despite all evidence and reasoning to the contrary, I stand by my decision! :gripe:

EDIT: I love the gripe icon. I could watch it for hours. Still haven't figured out why it turns into Meatwad for a couple frames ... maybe he's just getting his breath?
 
I love that little guy too :gripe: And you will notice that I didn't even think about building a settler on my watch. Guess we will have to wait for a while for swords. I also looked at the horses - we should have them in our borders when ex-Beijing pops.
 
Ok, I stopped at year 350. For one, even out the turnset, and there are a couple decisions we need to make.

First off, Roosevelt is not fighting a phony war. He's been coming at us with spears, axes, and swords. I've been pretty much building nothing but axes, with a couple archers thrown in. We've lost a few, but I've been able to keep American troops from pillaging us.

Oh, don't worry about taking Philly... there's a stack there of about 5 archers, plus he seems to be funneling a lot of troops through there as well.

He still refuses to talk... I would think some point he would talk and offer peace straight up. He's lost a lot more units than us...

A few points:

1) Workboat was completed in Nanjing, but I left it in the city. There's an American galley around just looking for a place to pillage... Building a Galley in Shanghi to combat this.

2) Cyrus did sneak a galley with a settler around off the east coast.. it's heading south, to who knows where... oh well, nothing we can do about that one...

3) The iron south of Shanghi can be hooked up now, it's in our borders finally (Shanghi had a border pop) It'd be a couple turns to get a worker over there though.

4) I traded Ivory to Alex for gold (he doesn't have Construction yet), which took care of a couple angry citizens. Once we get Monarchy, we can go with HR, and help the unahappy without the gold trade. Remember to cancel the deal for ivory, we don't want Alex to have elephants...

5) Big one!! We got our second scientist in Prah! Now, of course we could go the academy route, but right now, Goungzhau is our next biggest beaker producer at... 3(!) beakers... ouch...

Now, he CAN teach us Philosophy. Taoism is not founded! Here's a guarantee that we get a religion. I have left the scientist... we can discuss and ext up can take care of.

Lastly, one minor gripe... someone had turned on Avoid Growth in Shanghi, and I didn't notice till my last turn, so we missed a couple of turns there where the population would have went up. If ya turn it on... let everyone else know!

Sorry for no screenshots, just didn't seem like there was too much to show...

The save:
 
Good turns, a Monarch AI will not declare a phony war. Only a human would ... :mischief:

I say waste the scientists on Taoisms. Nothing in the variant say we can't use the scientists for any purpose other than academies. But one thing is that to reap the full benefit of founding a religon, we need to pollute the gene pool with prophets points. However, even without a shrine, the religion-induced extra happiness would help us.

--
 
In case my report didn't indicate it, I agree we should get Taoism. One nice thing, the Holy City should be Nanjing, and we could use that as the only place to generate priest points... that is, if we want to.

I think it would be very adventageous if we got the only religion on the continent. Get it spread a bit before the overseas religions start washing ashore.
 
I agree that we should grab taoism while we can. Also, I think it was me that turned on the 'avoid growth' - city was at max happy - sorry I didn't mention it.
 
I agree on Taoism.

Scowler is UP, GreyFox on Deck.

EDIT: Maybe we shouldn't convert to Taoism until after Monarchy comes in the next turn? We may not need to convert to HR right off the back, maybe we should take a turn of Anarchy to convert to Taoism, and then research Monotheism next and revolt to OR and HR together.
 
Got it, but not sure yet whether it will be tonight or tomorrow before I get to play it.
 
I played 11 turns to take us up to 600 AD.

First part of the round went according to plan. The Great Scientist gave us Philosophy, ushering in the Medieval Era and, more importantly, founding Taoism in Nanjing; I waited for Monarchy to complete before making it the state religion. The free missionary was used to spread the religion to Ptah.

In 425 AD, FDR was finally ready to talk, after losing a few more units.

Spoiler :
375 AD
While attacking, 7 of 10, Unimatrix 0 (Axeman) defeats (0.75/5): American Swordsman

400 AD

IBT:
While defending, 4 of 10, Unimatrix 0 (Archer) defeats (2.10/3): American Chariot
While defending, Axeman defeats (0.50/5): American Chariot
While defending, Archer defeats (2.04/3): American Spearman


I immediately arranged a simple peace treaty - he wasn't willing to give us any techs (he only had Calendar up his sleeve) - and so he dropped back to a Cautious -2 in relations. Interestingly, although he not surprisingly still considered us his worst enemy at this point, by the following turn he had changed his mind and was complaining about Alex instead - and that is how things remain at the end of the round, with Alex and FDR seething with mutual loathing.

Alas, on the very same turn that we made peace, disaster struck. Mansa grabbed Theology and founded Christianity :mad: So much for our hopes of uniting this continent with Taoism. We will also be at a disadvantage due to our currently closed borders - I judged opening them to be still too risky, and my suspicion was justified a few turns later when I saw an American settler leaving Philadelpia, looking for a suitable spot. More annoying still, one turn later Mansa also built the Church of the Nativity, increasing his chances of religious domination still further.

Meanwhile, Alex had just issued his first demand:

civilization420060626100658458.jpg

I told him to take a hike, knowing full well that his lack of OB with either Mali or America prevented him from reaching us - and his army couldn't have been up to much anyway if he was lacking copper...

Monotheism was completed in 500 AD, and I decided to go for Construction as no one else had it at that point. However, it was time to revolt to OR / HR first.

In case you're wondering why I didn't go for Currency instead, I'd already tried to get it from Mansa, but he refused to part with it (or Metal Casting) unless I included Philosophy in the deal. This was the best that was on offer...

civilization420060626100155417.jpg

...but I wasn't prepared to let him have Philosophy, even in exchange for two such useful techs. Instead, I waited for a few turns and took this deal instead in 520 AD:

civilization420060626103522204.jpg

Mansa removed Metal Casting from the agenda shortly afterwards ("we have our reasons"), so I guess he may be building the Colossus.

Alex converted to Christianity in 580 AD, and worse still, the cult spread to our own city of Guang in 600 AD! America still seems to be free as far as I can see; we have a missionary due at Nanjing next turn and I was wondering if it might be worth opening borders and sending it to Philadelphia to try to get FDR on our side.

I prepared another settler and he is ready to found a city at Pink Dot next turn (I overshot the location slightly so you will need to move him and the archer escort 1E to include the wine).

civilization420060626110836486.jpg

As you can see, the iron has been connected and a work boat will be completed in Shanghai next turn to hook up the fishes.

This will take up most of the best land so there's probably not much point in blocking off the south for much longer. BTW, thanks so much Maquis for not telling me about that barb city that had popped up in the SE... :p

civilization420060626110532662.jpg


There are various possible trades open for techs and resources (irritatingly, Mansa has just finished Construction), but I've left those up to the next player. Just remember that trading with Alex will probably give us demerits with FDR, and vice versa.

 
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