jack merchant
Internationalist
ChrTH, if you're waiting for Aggie to pick this up you'll have to wait another two weeks as per his sig 
CTR 0 -- 1 if by Air, 2 if by Sea
- Thread starter ChrTh
- Start date
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
You know, I thought that was the case
Aggie is skipped this round
pdescobar is UP
bewareofgnomes is ON DECK
Aggie is skipped this round
pdescobar is UP
bewareofgnomes is ON DECK
Ok cool, our iron woes are relieved. ^_^ oops. what we ought to do now is AX monarchy (no beakers invested) and go to math. Crank catas for eventual upgrade, as well as cranking whatever the hell is the precursoor to zerks (warrior -->sword-->berzerk?)
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Berzerk replace Longbowmen, so I believe it's Archer > Berserk. Perhaps someone more knowledgable on PTW could confirm
pdescobar
Moo, baby. Moo.
Yes, Archers upgrade to Berserk and there is no strat resource requirement for them, at least that's how it was in 1.14f 
I got it and will play tonight if possible, tomorrow night otherwise (US Eastern time)
I got it and will play tonight if possible, tomorrow night otherwise (US Eastern time)
pdescobar
Moo, baby. Moo.
BTW, the link posted (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/crth0_850bc.zip) is a zero-length file but there's a http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/crth0_850_BC.zip on the server as well so I'll be giving that a try...
pdescobar
Moo, baby. Moo.
A couple comments and questions as I look at the save before my set. I'm hoping to get a bit of discussion before I actually play it. I really should have paid more attention to what was going on before it got to me....
Also, we have a stack of 3 archers between Utica and Argos, but unless they learn to fly they aren't going to be attacking either one
Finally, smurf seemed to be setting up Copenhagen as a worker farm. However, as our only decent coastal city (Reykavik is pretty corrupt) I pose a question. Since our main method of attacking will be Berserks on boats, do we want to try to get the Lighthouse for the extra movement? If so, Copenhagen is the place to build it. Also, if we do, does that mean we ignore the library, keeping that as a cascade backup plan there or do we try to build both at the same time (library probably in trondheim)? We will have build them the hard way because unless one of our neighbors attacks and we manage a GL defensively, we won't be seeing a leader pre-invention.
Thoughts?
Note, that is a freshwater lake and thus Birka cannot build any boats, so there will be no way to take Utica amphibiously. It's still a good city site, although it should get a temple ASAP to help keep Carthage from taking over culturally.
Smurf had questions about this settler but let it continue. I also have questions. Where were you intending on sending it ChrTh? It's got 6 turns left to build as I start and the only place nearby to settle is smack in the middle of tundra to suck up the dyes. Aside from that, the only options I see are to walk it up North of the capital and settle the jungle or get it onto a boat, eventually, and try to send it to one of the islands. I'll be amazed if we can beat the celts though.
Also, we have a stack of 3 archers between Utica and Argos, but unless they learn to fly they aren't going to be attacking either one
Finally, smurf seemed to be setting up Copenhagen as a worker farm. However, as our only decent coastal city (Reykavik is pretty corrupt) I pose a question. Since our main method of attacking will be Berserks on boats, do we want to try to get the Lighthouse for the extra movement? If so, Copenhagen is the place to build it. Also, if we do, does that mean we ignore the library, keeping that as a cascade backup plan there or do we try to build both at the same time (library probably in trondheim)? We will have build them the hard way because unless one of our neighbors attacks and we manage a GL defensively, we won't be seeing a leader pre-invention.
Thoughts?
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
You can't build boats on lakes? Dang, I thought you could (maybe that's Civ2 coming back to haunt me).
Yes, the Settler was going to go get all those extra dyes (or at least deny them to the Greeks).
Yes, the Settler was going to go get all those extra dyes (or at least deny them to the Greeks).
well, I was looking at that wheat (not sure what it was, but something good ^_^) and just thinking about how damn nice it would be to have more workers. Personally, I'd prefer the library. We can just ride that for a mass upgrade, and how many zerkys are we gonna have? certainly not more then 20, and thats like 10 boats @ a reasonable cost. If we go for 10 zerks per wave, ie take carthage then send zerks by land over using galleys only as where we attack from, we can have huge numbers. Hell, we can even just park 3 galleys out of our target, and run the zerks in by land, hop into the galley and attack from it. We don't lose a single turn as compared to the standard land attack if we have moderate luck with positioning, so we only really need the galleys to jump off from. Additionally, I don't feel that the zerks are gonna be able to get us much, becuse we can only grab coastals, so unless we get m4d lucky on some island fitting of an FP and we culture the isles in the middle, we are mostly stuck.
In fact, I see now more then ever the wisdom in getting temples out FAST and just having the others in awe of our culture. More culture means we can keep those coastal sh!tholes we will be capturing.
To recap on wonders:
IMO, library over lighthouse. Pulling both is possible, but that will take extensive prebuilding as well as a lack of workers for those specific cities. This means grabbing workers out of the rest of our cities at a lower turn-->growth efficiency to improve trond and cop.
Next leader's call, to be sure, but take a careful look and please, do prebuild IE NOW start it.
In fact, I see now more then ever the wisdom in getting temples out FAST and just having the others in awe of our culture. More culture means we can keep those coastal sh!tholes we will be capturing.
To recap on wonders:
IMO, library over lighthouse. Pulling both is possible, but that will take extensive prebuilding as well as a lack of workers for those specific cities. This means grabbing workers out of the rest of our cities at a lower turn-->growth efficiency to improve trond and cop.
Next leader's call, to be sure, but take a careful look and please, do prebuild IE NOW start it.
pdescobar
Moo, baby. Moo.
Sorry, RL got in the way. It'll be up sometime Thursday.
pdescobar
Moo, baby. Moo.
CTR 0 Log
Summary (A reminder for myself)
Civilization: the Vikings
Level: Monarch
Map size: standard, continent, random attributes.
AI: 7 random civs (Carthage, Greece, Celts ...)
Special Rules:
Cities can only be captured by Sea or by Air. By the former, Berserk and Marine units can assault and capture a city from a sea unit regardless of the status of the defenders. With the latter, the city needs to be bombarded by air and sea units (also some artillery units) until all defenders are redlined, and then paratroopers and/or ground, non-motorized units (i.e. no tank, armor, or mech. inf.) deployed by Helicopters can assault. Units brought in by Helicopter can only attack the turn they are dropped off; they must return to our territory for one turn before being redeployed as attacking units. Cruise missile/nuke use undecided (I'm leaning toward No, Aggie votes Yes.)
==========================================
0: 850 BC, Preturn
Research changed from Monarchy to Literature as I want to get the GL going. Literature will come in 10 turns with a loss of 6gpt at 1.8.1; Currently we have 152 gp in the bank. Bergen is due to grow in 2 but not get a granary for 13 turns. I MM to get the granary in 5 at zero growth and will MM again to try and grow the turn after the granary is built. Copenhagen only needs 3 shields to finish worker but is producing 7 so I switch some forest and plains to flood plain to generate more food for this turn and still get the worker. We have a stack of 3 archers between Utica and Argos, but unless they learn to fly they aren't going to be attacking either one I will bring them home to cities in case Greeks get frisky and will send one and a buddy up north to clear the barb camp N of us. Change Aarhus from Spear to Barracks
1: 825 BC
Copenhagen: Worker -> Worker
Exploring galley hits NW landmass. Looks like an uninhabited island. Greece has Phil and CoL, Carthage has Phil. None of them have Poly. Wait a turn to see if Greece shares CoL.
2: 800 BC
No trading amongst the AIs so I sell Poly while I can. To Greece for CoL and 43 gp. To Carthage for Philosophy, WM, and 81 gp. Celts will only offer 8 gp so no tech for him. Swap WM with celts and greece for 8 gp each though and with carthage for their remaining 2 gp. Birka gets a clown to avoid riot.
3: 775 BC
Copenhagen: Worker -> Galley (I'd like a second out)
Birka half-whipped to speed the temple.
4: 750 BC
(I) Carthage asks to trade maps, I give our TM for his WM.
Trondheim: Temple -> Pyramids (GL pre-build, literacy still 6 turns off)
Reyk expands, pulling in the fur; drop lux back to 0%.
5: 730 BC
(I) Celts demand we withdraw our scout. I thought we had an RoP? As an RoP isn't available, we must not even have an embassy...
Oslo: Barracks -> Archer
Complete road hooking up Oslo and Aarhus with the core, bringing ivory. Birka is only unconnected city now and 2 workers are moving that way.
Establish embassy with celts. Entremont is size 6 (1 clown), not growing and pulling 10 spt. Pyramids due in 7 turns. They have silk, iron, and horse and have 2 reg spear defending. Only thing built is the Palace and they're flat broke in Despotism running 20% tax, 80% science. We have embassies everywhere now. They're only "close" to signing RoP with us so I hold off for now.
Science dropped to 70%, breaking even and still Lit in 5.
6: 710 BC
(I) Greece wants to swap maps now. They also agree to our TM for their WM.
Stockholm: Settler -> Temple; Sending Settler down to lock up the silks.
Greece is cutting a warrior across stockhom's territory but I see no reason to complain.
7: 690 BC
Reyk: Spear -> Spear; They're losing a lot of shields to corruption and could probably use a courthouse but we're only "average" militarily compared to Greece so I want to push another troop out.
8: 670 BC
Cope: Galley -> Worker
Aar: Barracks -> Spear
9: 650 BC
(I) Carthage builds Colossus, they start Lighthouse, Celt and Greece switch to it.
10: 630 BC
(I) Greece founds Herakleia down in the corner near the silks.
Literature comes in, Math is up next.
Bergen: Archer -> Archer
Cope: Worker -> Archer
Trondheim switched to GL, still way off (35.)
The Settler pair S of Stockholm is still ready to move. They are currently 2 squares due North of Herakleia. I leave it up to the next leader what to do with them. Note that there's a worker who is building a road down there in anticipation of hooking up a new city.
Additional notes for next leader:
- We're close to the max unit support (28/32) but are still average with Greece. 5 units are being built currently along with 2 temples and the GL. The GL is the only thing I'd object to being changed
- Also, we've finished exploring around the pretty large NW island but we do *not* currently have RoP with celts. It probably wouldn't cost too much to get it if you want to sign one to move the galley and scout through their territory. The scout is standing (unfortifed) on a hill just S of their core.
- You may be able to whip Birka again next turn to complete the temple.
- A celt warrior has just shown up N of Birka which you might want to keep an eye on. He might be down here because of the barbs they just cleared, but then again...
Download save (630BC)
Summary (A reminder for myself)
Civilization: the Vikings
Level: Monarch
Map size: standard, continent, random attributes.
AI: 7 random civs (Carthage, Greece, Celts ...)
Special Rules:
Cities can only be captured by Sea or by Air. By the former, Berserk and Marine units can assault and capture a city from a sea unit regardless of the status of the defenders. With the latter, the city needs to be bombarded by air and sea units (also some artillery units) until all defenders are redlined, and then paratroopers and/or ground, non-motorized units (i.e. no tank, armor, or mech. inf.) deployed by Helicopters can assault. Units brought in by Helicopter can only attack the turn they are dropped off; they must return to our territory for one turn before being redeployed as attacking units. Cruise missile/nuke use undecided (I'm leaning toward No, Aggie votes Yes.)
==========================================
0: 850 BC, Preturn
Research changed from Monarchy to Literature as I want to get the GL going. Literature will come in 10 turns with a loss of 6gpt at 1.8.1; Currently we have 152 gp in the bank. Bergen is due to grow in 2 but not get a granary for 13 turns. I MM to get the granary in 5 at zero growth and will MM again to try and grow the turn after the granary is built. Copenhagen only needs 3 shields to finish worker but is producing 7 so I switch some forest and plains to flood plain to generate more food for this turn and still get the worker. We have a stack of 3 archers between Utica and Argos, but unless they learn to fly they aren't going to be attacking either one
I will bring them home to cities in case Greeks get frisky and will send one and a buddy up north to clear the barb camp N of us. Change Aarhus from Spear to Barracks1: 825 BC
Copenhagen: Worker -> Worker
Exploring galley hits NW landmass. Looks like an uninhabited island. Greece has Phil and CoL, Carthage has Phil. None of them have Poly. Wait a turn to see if Greece shares CoL.
2: 800 BC
No trading amongst the AIs so I sell Poly while I can. To Greece for CoL and 43 gp. To Carthage for Philosophy, WM, and 81 gp. Celts will only offer 8 gp so no tech for him. Swap WM with celts and greece for 8 gp each though and with carthage for their remaining 2 gp. Birka gets a clown to avoid riot.
3: 775 BC
Copenhagen: Worker -> Galley (I'd like a second out)
Birka half-whipped to speed the temple.
4: 750 BC
(I) Carthage asks to trade maps, I give our TM for his WM.
Trondheim: Temple -> Pyramids (GL pre-build, literacy still 6 turns off)
Reyk expands, pulling in the fur; drop lux back to 0%.
5: 730 BC
(I) Celts demand we withdraw our scout. I thought we had an RoP? As an RoP isn't available, we must not even have an embassy...
Oslo: Barracks -> Archer
Complete road hooking up Oslo and Aarhus with the core, bringing ivory. Birka is only unconnected city now and 2 workers are moving that way.
Establish embassy with celts. Entremont is size 6 (1 clown), not growing and pulling 10 spt. Pyramids due in 7 turns. They have silk, iron, and horse and have 2 reg spear defending. Only thing built is the Palace and they're flat broke in Despotism running 20% tax, 80% science. We have embassies everywhere now. They're only "close" to signing RoP with us so I hold off for now.
Science dropped to 70%, breaking even and still Lit in 5.
6: 710 BC
(I) Greece wants to swap maps now. They also agree to our TM for their WM.
Stockholm: Settler -> Temple; Sending Settler down to lock up the silks.
Greece is cutting a warrior across stockhom's territory but I see no reason to complain.
7: 690 BC
Reyk: Spear -> Spear; They're losing a lot of shields to corruption and could probably use a courthouse but we're only "average" militarily compared to Greece so I want to push another troop out.
8: 670 BC
Cope: Galley -> Worker
Aar: Barracks -> Spear
9: 650 BC
(I) Carthage builds Colossus, they start Lighthouse, Celt and Greece switch to it.
10: 630 BC
(I) Greece founds Herakleia down in the corner near the silks.
Literature comes in, Math is up next.
Bergen: Archer -> Archer
Cope: Worker -> Archer
Trondheim switched to GL, still way off (35.)
The Settler pair S of Stockholm is still ready to move. They are currently 2 squares due North of Herakleia. I leave it up to the next leader what to do with them. Note that there's a worker who is building a road down there in anticipation of hooking up a new city.
Additional notes for next leader:
- We're close to the max unit support (28/32) but are still average with Greece. 5 units are being built currently along with 2 temples and the GL. The GL is the only thing I'd object to being changed
- Also, we've finished exploring around the pretty large NW island but we do *not* currently have RoP with celts. It probably wouldn't cost too much to get it if you want to sign one to move the galley and scout through their territory. The scout is standing (unfortifed) on a hill just S of their core.
- You may be able to whip Birka again next turn to complete the temple.
- A celt warrior has just shown up N of Birka which you might want to keep an eye on. He might be down here because of the barbs they just cleared, but then again...
Download save (630BC)
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
bewareofgnomes is UP
ChrTh is ON DECK
ChrTh is ON DECK
bewareofgnomes
Back Again
due to rl commitments, i have to drop. sorry
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Doh! Ok, I'm up...I'll play tomorrow
pdescobar
Moo, baby. Moo.
OH, one thing I forgot to mention is that you can change the research goal this turn with no penalty as we *just* got literature. I picked Math for the next one essentially because that's what the science advisor suggested since it was my last turn 
Also, it probably doesn't need to be said, but I wouldn't go trading away literacy until/unless we're pretty sure the library is locked up.
Also, it probably doesn't need to be said, but I wouldn't go trading away literacy until/unless we're pretty sure the library is locked up.
Aggie
Deity
do we need other players now? Don't fear about me, I'll be back in 8 days
