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Cultural Diversity

Overview Updates (1) Reviews (2) Discussion
janboruta said:
I guess that if Leugi is ok with lumping all the South American countries into the Colonial group, it should be ok. :p
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Technically, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile are one kind of monster, while Paraguay, Brazil, and to some degree Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador are another kind of monster. (Colombia and Venezuela stand in the middle ground of both, though Colombia is even more related to Central American countries); and of course all are very different to Anglo-American countries.

However, it's hard to give a major difference between them for the game, mostly because they are also very modern.

Andean American modern Countries have had a lot more interest on Archaeology and ancient cultures than Amazonian Countries, but far less so than Central American countries. So its not only for them... Amazonian Countries have a lot more natural resources, but Andean American tend to focus on other kind of resources too (like Guano or Saltpeter)... They all tend to be very syncretic, mixing religions, and they all had troubling politics dealing with dictatorships and ugly things like those... So, the differences are more individual than group-like...

Withouth thinking in Gameplay, the American Continent could easily have: Andean, Amazonian, Mesoamerican, North American (native); Latin-American, Anglo-American (North) and Caribbean... But right now none of the groups would even reach 8 civs...

I'd be in favour of sepparating Latin-American (including Mexico) with Anglo/French-Colonial (Like USA, Canada, etc) [though I have no idea on major differences either]... I wouldn't know where to put Philippines, don't know much about them...

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I will start trying to figure out how to deal with Northern-Tribal American, Amazonian and Andean Culture groups little by little... Once I get some ideas (probably helped hugely by turing and reedstilt) we can touch this issue betterly. :D
 
I think Leugi's got the right idea for a take on Colonail. Anglo-French vs Latin? Phillippenes I might put as Latin because they were originally Spanish - or what about Oceanic? I suppose Australia and NZ would also be Anglo-French. I would also support a distinction between North and South for tribal Americas.

I'd be interested to see what split could be done for Africa. East/West/South? (North is covered by Arabic and Mediterranean, surely). Coastal/Inland? Something more akin to Tribal vs High American?
 
SuperWaffle247 said:
I think Leugi's got the right idea for a take on Colonail. Anglo-French vs Latin? Phillippenes I might put as Latin because they were originally Spanish - or what about Oceanic? I suppose Australia and NZ would also be Anglo-French. I would also support a distinction between North and South for tribal Americas.
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I won't be splitting Colonial up officially due to the overlap with design - but tacitly both Latin American and Anglosphereic nations have distinct splash screens and music.

turingmachine said:
I understand making the mod to support whats actually playable (and JFD specializes in European civs and its his mod, so I understand why it was done that way), but instead of splitting up Europe so much (maybe only splitting it to 3 instead of 5), if 1 or 2 more groups were added to America and/or Africa, it would probably have presented a more accurate world picture.

And I like to repeat, I actually do like the mod very much. I'm just commenting with the hope that maybe America/Africa will be expanded upon in future updates or if more modders make more civs in those areas.
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I'm not trying to reflect a world picture - I'm trying to reflect the world as it is within Civ V. If more African/American mods become available to justify an expansion of those groups, then an expansion of those groups will certainly happen.

COF said:
Don't forget that splash screen album I made. May still have some gems in it.
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Added your name to the credits; sorry, I forgot :) I don't know what splash screens were yours, but there's bound to be some that I used, and, if not, you still assisted in the research.

SuperWaffle247 said:
I think Leugi's got the right idea for a take on Colonail. Anglo-French vs Latin? Phillippenes I might put as Latin because they were originally Spanish - or what about Oceanic? I suppose Australia and NZ would also be Anglo-French. I would also support a distinction between North and South for tribal Americas.

I'd be interested to see what split could be done for Africa. East/West/South? (North is covered by Arabic and Mediterranean, surely). Coastal/Inland? Something more akin to Tribal vs High American?
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Yeah, Tomatekh suggested the Tribal/High split to be adapted to Africa - it's something I would like, to give Ethiopia and Kongo their due, but with only 10 civs in all of the African group, it's difficult to justify yet.

Chrisbburn said:
Are the links in the OP broken? Cant seem to select either version
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Yeah, it'll be uploaded to Mediafire once the final version is complete (the Aesthetic version, at least). Just two more groups to go at any rate.
 
On the topic of too many cultural groups in Europe... I think the Northern group could be split into Celtic and Nordic groups. I think the two groups are distinct enough and with enough representation for each group to warrant a split. Just my 2¢.
 
Like the Mediterranean and Colonial groups, Northern have slight variations in their soundtracks and splash screens between Celtic and Norse, but otherwise they should remain in the same group.
 
Wait, Sami is totalitarian?
 
SuperWaffle247 said:
I'd be interested to see what split could be done for Africa. East/West/South? (North is covered by Arabic and Mediterranean, surely). Coastal/Inland? Something more akin to Tribal vs High American?
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JFD said:
Yeah, Tomatekh suggested the Tribal/High split to be adapted to Africa - it's something I would like, to give Ethiopia and Kongo their due, but with only 10 civs in all of the African group, it's difficult to justify yet.
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My main suggestion, and what I feel would probably make the most sense if JFD was to do a split in the future, was primarily to split off the Gulf of Guinea civs from the Bantu civs.

That way you put civs like Benin, Nri, Nok, Oyo/Yoruba, Ashanti, etc. in one group (for convenience call this the "Nok" group), while civs like Kongo, Zulu, Zimbabwe, Luba, Lunda, etc. in a "Bantu" group. I'm not actually sure what bonuses JFD gave to the current African group, but the Nok group could get bonuses related to Metal Casting, Religion, Fortifications/Siege Warfare.

This would divide up the civs nicely while also adhering to actual culture groups which would get muddled in a High/Tribal division. (Also, while a High/Tribal division initially looks good on paper, if you actually look at the types of African civ mods currently made or in development it would unevenly split the civs as only like 3 of these would actually fit tribal while all the rest would be high). "Bantu" is still somewhat of a blob, but I really doubt modders are going to make enough African mods to properly split Bantu up anytime soon.

I mean, there are other major cultural distinctions in Africa; the bushmen being a major one (but I haven't see anyone even propose doing a Khoi or San civ on the forums); Madagascar (but you can easily lump them in with other Austronesia civs); Saharan (but, except for the ancient civs, I don't think its too inconsistent to lump them in with the Islamic/Arabic group, and even the ancient civs thematically work with the Mesopotamian group); Swahili Coast (but Kilwa works fine in the Arabic group); etc., etc..
 
Tomatekh said:
My main suggestion, and what I feel would probably make the most sense if JFD was to do a split in the future, was primarily to split off the Gulf of Guinea civs from the Bantu civs. The Gulf of Guinea area in Africa is somewhat analogous to South East Asia in Asia, where its really its own distinct cultural blob.

That way you put civs like Benin, Nri, Nok, Oyo/Yoruba, Ashanti, etc. in one group (for convenience call this the "Nok" group), while civs like Kongo, Zulu, Zimbabwe, Luba, Lunda, etc. in a "Bantu" group. I'm not actually sure what bonuses JFD gave to the current African group, but the Nok group could get bonuses related to Metal Casting, Religion, Fortifications/Siege Warfare.

This would divide up the civs nicely while also adhering to actual culture groups which would get muddled in a High/Tribal division. (Also, while a High/Tribal division initially looks good on paper, if you actually look at the types of African civ mods currently made or in development it would unevenly split the civs as only like 3 of these would actually fit tribal while all the rest would be high). "Bantu" is still somewhat of a blob, but I really doubt modders are going to make enough African mods to properly split Bantu up anytime soon.

I mean, there are other major cultural distinctions in Africa; the bushmen being a major one (but I haven't see anyone even propose doing a Khoi or San civ on the forums); Madagascar (but you can easily lump them in with other Austronesia civs); Saharan (but, except for the ancient civs, I don't think its too inconsistent to lump them in with the Islamic/Arabic group, and even the ancient civs thematically work with the Mesopotamian group); Swahili Coast (but Kilwa works fine in the Arabic group); etc., etc..
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Sorry, I oversimplified your suggestion. So I guess if modders can bolster the African group, that's how a split of that group would take shape.

Incidentally, Totalitarian (damn those Sami :p) and Colonial support have been added, and the download will be restored later today. I'm just going through and trying to equalise the volume as much as I can.
 
I like your proposal, everything makes sense. A Bantu group sounds good to me mostly because, as you said, there isn't going to be too many more civs there, at least at the moment. And indeed many of the civs can get picked off at the edges, like Songhai and Kilwa. But I also don't think it's necessary as things stand right now.
 
JFD said:
Sorry, I oversimplified your suggestion. So I guess if modders can bolster the African group, that's how a split of that group would take shape
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Nah, it wasn't much of an oversimplification and honestly depending on what African civs people actually make a high/tribal split might end up making the most sense anyway.

I was just trying to think of what African civs are playable at the moment and which ones I've seen at least planned on the forums. Either way, I think the current "African" group is fine and makes sense for the number of civs currently available.
 
Cultural Diversity (Aesthetic Version) now released!

Includes:

  • Unique, culture-sensitive soundtracks for groups not supported by Vanilla (African, Central-European, Colonial (Anglo-French and Latin), Eastern, Mediterranean (Classical and Latin), Mesopotamian, Northern (Celtic and Norse), Totalitarian, and Turkic), and condensation of existing soundtracks for remove culturally inappropriate music (Arabic, Bharata, High-American,Mandala, Oriental, Tribal-American, Western)
  • Unique era splash screens for all 17 Groups + slight variations for Celtic/Norse, Classical/Latin/Papal Mediterranean, and Anglo-French/Latin Colonial
  • Unique embarkation graphics for African, Arabic, Bharata, Eastern, HighAmerican, Mandala, Northern, Oriental, TribalAmerican, and Turkic

The Core component of the mod is required for both versions (the Mechanical Version is to come); this is the file that handles support for all modded and vanilla civ - if you want to add to it you may do so manually, but also feel free to point out mods for which you'd like support.

Please see the OP for download links.

I hope it won't need updating (at least for a long time) - it took so long to upload :cringe:

Big thanks to everyone who helped to compile soundtracks and splash screens nonetheless, and Leugi, Hangman, and Wolfdog for the embarkation graphics :)
 
I noticed that Pakistan and the Sikhs aren't listed above (both are DJSHenninger civs). They could go in either the Bharata or Arabic groups, though I think they'd both fit better in Bharata, personally.

Also, is/will the CSA be a Colonial group?
 
How do you add civilizations into this? I use DJSHenneger's Sikhs and would like to add them in to my download of CD.
 
Thanks! They're not listed, but they'rein the mod (Pakistan in Arabic, Sikh in Bharata). Will amend the OP.

CSA would be added to the Colonial group, yes - once it's released, or if RawSasquatch wants to provide the unique civ tag for them so that I can include it preemptively.

Skaz881 said:
How do you add civilizations into this? I use DJSHenneger's Sikhs and would like to add them in to my download of CD.
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Added some basic instructions to the OP.
 
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