Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[ehecatzin]

That makes some sense, but I'd think that the French medieval cathedrals are more significant as monuments than Welsh castles (or even English cathedrals). As for medieval English culture, the flourishing of literature in Middle English is notable, which then continued its efflorescence in Early Modern English. (Keep in mind that the English are a culture that would be transcending to the Early Modern period per Humankind's model.) That said, it is tricky to find a non-military trait that England would have led France in during this period.


What about the Inca? I hope they are included and it doesn't really make sense to have them and the Aztecs in separate eras. And if they did do that, shouldn't the Inca be in the Middle Ages and the Aztecs in the Early Modern, because Cuzco has an older foundation than Tenochtitlan?

I guess it all depends on where do you start to count the renaissance beggining, the Aztecs could be early modern, but if you consider the Aztecs since the migration period, they are firmly on medieval. I guess a similar thing will happen with the Incas, tho I doubt they are in, maybe with later expansion we will get an actually fleshed out Andean cultural tree. and maybe a mesoamerican expanded one, Zapotecs and Teotihuacan on classical, Toltecs (tho I would prefer Itza to cover a second maya culture), Mixtecs, Purepecha on medieval.

EDIT: I don't mind Aztecs on medieval, if anything it would be a very interesting what if scenario if you trascend and take the Spanish head on.

We're largely in agreement. But observant people have already spotted the hwacha, so I'm fairly certain Joseon is in for Early Modern. Like you said, they're skipping regions, and I think the Mongols and Khmer will have to represent East/Southeast Asia for the Middle Ages. I'm not entirely sure about the theme idea; focusing on the Mediterranean for the Bronze Age and the Classical Era is par for the course.

For Early Modern, my current best guesses based on what people have dug up are Dutch (Merchant), Iroquois (Agrarian), Joseon (Scientist), Ming (Builder), Mughal (Builder), Muromachi Japan (Militarist), Ottomans (Expansionist), Polish (Aesthete), Spanish (Expansionist), and Venetians (Merchant). I could see four European civs becoming the norm.

In that case it could be Kamakura Japan on medieval, Ming and Joseon on early modern, Meiji on industrial.

 

[Gwydden]

As to including England because of the Hundred Year's War, this makes perfect sense for a company based in Paris: France won that war, despite the longbows and Henry V.

Including that episode where the English kept losing to a literal teenage girl. But they won the Seven Years War and Napoleonic Wars, so I guess it evens out.

I feel pretty confident about most other archetype and civ matches, but nothing jumps out at me with the English. I'm mostly working through process of elimination here: Militarist and Expansionist are likely taken; Merchant and Scientist don't make much sense for this period; making them Aesthete over the medieval French seems weird. So that leaves Builder or Agrarian, and if I squint I can sort of see the arguments I presented earlier.

 

[j51]

I feel pretty confident about most other archetype and civ matches, but nothing jumps out at me with the English. I'm mostly working through process of elimination here: Militarist and Expansionist are likely taken; Merchant and Scientist don't make much sense for this period; making them Aesthete over the medieval French seems weird. So that leaves Builder or Agrarian, and if I squint I can sort of see the arguments I presented earlier.

Yeah, honestly, it might make more sense to put the English in the Early Modern and make them aesthetes, or scientists. But then... no longbows.

 

[Jcturmer]

My prediction of the Medieval Era:

-Byzantium - Builder
-English - ?
-Franks -Aestheta
-Khmer - Agrarian
-Mali - Merchant
-Mongols - Militarist
-Teutons - Expansionist
-Umayyad - Scientist
-Vikings - Militarist
-Zapotects - ?

I include Umayyad because there is a image with arab architecture called "Umayyad". And Zapotecs because with the inclusions of Olmecs, it had been mentioned "maya, zapotecs and aztecs" in twitter.

So, in the Early Modern, there will be a theme about the exploration of the new world with the aztec culture.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My mind is predicting what could come up in the Early modern Era and it comes to a whole lot of Europeans:
Dutch
Spanish
Portuguese
Italian City-State
Bourbon France/Ancien Régime
I would put England here but it looks like they might be Medieval.

Which I guess leaves
Ottomans
Mughals
Joseon Korea (Unless Silla gets in maybe it will just be called Korea)
Edo/Tokugawa Japan
Ming?
I also want to include Iroquois somewhere and Burma or Siam would be good for SEA.

 

[BuchiTaton]

My prediction of the Medieval Era:

I include Umayyad because there is a image with arab architecture called "Umayyad". And Zapotecs because with the inclusions of Olmecs, it had been mentioned "maya, zapotecs and aztecs" in twitter.

So, in the Early Modern, there will be a theme about the exploration of the new world with the aztec culture.

I missed that info about Zapotecs. If Zapotecs get in I would be pretty impressed. That would force Aztecs to be Early Modern for sure, because there is no way devs put two mesoamerican cultures on medieval era (that for me is the most crowded era).

About Inca and Aztec cultures on Early Modern. I think Inca justified more to be Early Modern, because even if was by few years they were conquered later and resisted more, I mean what about Neo-Inca state and Túpac Amaru II.

 

[Krajzen]

England (such as it is) essentially remains a small regional power until the personal and legal unions with Scotland in the 17th/18th centuries, so it should not really be in anyone’s shortlist for medieval cultures

Eh, I somewhat disagree.
England was one of the most culturally advanced areas of Christian Europe for most of medieval era.
It was among the first areas to create universities, and its universities were intellectual powerhouses already in the medieval era.
It had some of the most important thinkers of entire medieval world - such as Ockham or Roger Bacon.
It was in the medieval era when its powerful national epics such as Arthurian Cycle and Beowulf emerged, so it had no shortage of sophisticated culture.
It was among main crusader powers - Richard Lionheart!
It was internationally powerful enough to engage in offensive wars against Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Flanders, FRANCE or Spanish dynastic disputes since 12th century.

In medieval Christian Europe there was no universal empire of any kind (even Charlemagne was not ruiling in Iberia, Isles, Scandinavia or Eastern Europe) and international influence of England was almost as far as you could go in this cultural area in this period.
It wasn't of course as central to medieval Europe as "France", "Germany" or "Italy" but it was still among most significant cultures here.

On top of that all, medieval England is very strong in modern culture as far as medieval Europe goes. Arthurian Cycle, Beowulf, Robin Hood, Richard Lionheart, Canterbury Tales, Alfred the Great, Longbowmen, York, William the Conqueror, Hundred Years War... England is very "memetically powerful".

I'm not sure it appears in this era of course, as it can appear really in every era past classical (and it has many different incarnations! Saxons, Kingdom, GB, UK, Empire etc ) but I think it' more probable in medieval than for example Spain, Poland, Kievan Rus etc.

 

[notNamed]

England was never a Crusader power, actually. Lionheart was an exception and he was there because of his obligations as a royal from mainland Europe.
You gotta keep in mind these is the medieval era. It would take some time before any "England" as such emerged. That came later as the royalty and people there stopped seeing themselves as a part of the greater European whole in the late middle ages and early renaissance.

They're here because the Hundred Years War, which is about the only thing aside from the Vikings, Middle Eastern Crusades and Mongolian Invasion that most people take away from their medieval history class.

 

[Krajzen]

In another thread I have asked for the screenshot of an ultimate "spotted civilizations and units" compilation.

Here it is: https://i.imgur.com/J0miRO4.png

Thank you.

I mostly like this list, and I like the fact I have managed to predict many civs without examinating it before (I have just remembered it was posted somewhere).

So medieval era confirmed are Franks, "Teutons", English, Vikings, Arabs, Aztecs, Khmer, Mongols and "Ghana". This is actually almost perfect for my vanilla 10 civs needs. I just really damn hope the 10th civ is Byzantium. Also, I'm 95% sure "Ghana" is Mali. Also, "Teutons" are really weird civ name (same weirdness AoE2 did) but its understandable as "Holy Roman Empire" is horribly awkward name and scope for "medieval German" civ" and a game removed from European geo - historical background.

Early modern era is Ottoman, Venice/Italy, Spain, Dutch, Poland, Japan, Korea and... Ming. The first seven are perfect civs for this era IMO; I am just bewildered by the idea of bypassing classical and medieval (arguably the greatest eras in Chinese history) and putting next incarnation of China in early modern, and it being Ming, AND three East Asian civs in one era I'd say I hope this is mistake and Ming is actually in medieval, but that would kick out Byzantium and I really hope for its inclusion.

Also, Mughals seem to be in (thank God, I love this civ) and they can only be in EM. The problem is, Inca seem to be in as well. So either no EM Subsaharan civ (awkward) or no Byzantium in medieval era (horrible). Well, if I had to choose from this two bullets, I'd reluctantly remove one African civ, especially as TSL maps are problematic in this game anyway.

Industrial era is Germany, Russia, and goddamn Zulu, my only disappointment with Humankind's roster, why not Ashanti which is more advanced, more accomplished and less clishe Subsaharan civilization of this era.
Now with those eras the real fun begins. I think this era includes also Siam, Nepal and Sweden (I'd put all of them here even if they weren't spotted).
It also seems Revolutionary France is here (very weird instead of Great Britain which actually started the entire era, and dominated it, but ultimate incarnaiton of France had to be put somewhere).

Modern era is Soviets, America, People's Republic of China and Brazil. Also apparently UK which is bizarre to me, I'd much rather see France as modern era civ (WW1 heroism, de Gaulle, its role in EU etc) and Great Britain in industrial era. Besides those civs, I'm absolutely certain India is in modern era, and it is very probable Ethiopia is here if not in industrial - it is the only decent representative of Subsaharan anyway, except Nigeria.

So, that would leave three slots in industrial and three in modern.
I think it could be
INDUSTRIAL - Iran, whatever Americas civ, Afghans
MODERN - Japan, Turkey, Italy
Why these?
Iran - as a second, Islamic, incarnation of Persia; 18th century was its last century with spectacular imperial power (Nader Shah) before its terrible decline and very politically controversial 20th century history It would be also an excellent proposal of Aesthete or Builder civ.
Whatever Americas civ - to fill the slot, and there are a lot of possibilities: Mexico, Argentina, Gran Colombia, or indigenous people such as Iroquis or whatever Native US group, so I refuse to even try guessing that one.
Afghans - 18th century was crucial for the history of Afghanistan and Pakistan and formation of these states as we know today; it was also the period of their great military power in Asia.
Japan - why in modern not industrial? Because for the entire 18th and 19th century it was either isolated or just westernizing, while it was one of few major superpowers in 20th.
Turkey - as a representative of Islam in 20th century (fitting, as it was probably the most consistently strong Muslim country this century) and second incarnation of Ottomans.
Italy - both Italy and Germany only united in very late 19th century so they could go both here or to industrial, but Germany goes into industrial (probably fitting, as "Prussian power"), so Italy is the most logical European civ for 20th century and we could use one more civ here. Also, it had a ton of achievements and influence in 20th century. Also, as a final incarnation of Italian civs line.
Also, one ultimate reason: not sure if you have noticed, but with UK, Napoleonic France, Prussian Germany, Italy, 20th century Japan, Soviets, modern America and PRC we have almost perfect roster for "the spirit of" WW2

 

[Gwydden]

So medieval era confirmed are Franks, "Teutons", English, Vikings, Arabs, Aztecs, Khmer, Mongols and "Ghana". This is actually almost perfect for my vanilla 10 civs needs. I just really damn hope the 10th civ is Byzantium. Also, I'm 95% sure "Ghana" is Mali. Also, "Teutons" are really weird civ name (same weirdness AoE2 did) but its understandable as "Holy Roman Empire" is horribly awkward name and scope for "medieval German" civ" and a game removed from European geo - historical background.

Honestly, as a non-native speaker I find Anglophones calling the Germans "Germans" extremely bizarre. The Germans don't call themselves that, most other languages don't call them that, and the nomenclature gets really awkward when you're dealing with premodern history. It's like if Ireland was called "Celtica" and Russia "Slavia" despite all the other Celtic- and Slavic-speaking nations around.

Someone on reddit claims to have spotted a hippodrome, so there might be hope for the Byzantines yet.

Early modern era is Ottoman, Venice/Italy, Spain, Dutch, Poland, Japan, Korea and... Ming. The first seven are perfect civs for this era IMO; I am just bewildered by the idea of bypassing classical and medieval (arguably the greatest eras in Chinese history) and putting next incarnation of China in early modern, and it being Ming, AND three East Asian civs in one era I'd say I hope this is mistake and Ming is actually in medieval, but that would kick out Byzantium and I really hope for its inclusion.

Ming were probably chosen because they're the best known dynasty in the popular conciousness: the "priceless Ming vase" meme; the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, and the Temple of Heaven; the voyages of Zheng He; and novels like Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Journey to the West.

I really hope Ming are not medieval and that Aztecs are not early modern, but I'm starting to fear it might be otherwise.

Also, Mughals seem to be in (thank God, I love this civ) and they can only be in EM. The problem is, Inca seem to be in as well. So either no EM Subsaharan civ (awkward) or no Byzantium in medieval era (horrible). Well, if I had to choose from this two bullets, I'd reluctantly remove one African civ, especially as TSL maps are problematic in this game anyway.

The evidence for Inca appears to be slim. It'd be regrettable if they didn't make it, but for whatever reason they've never been as popular as the Aztecs.

Industrial era is Germany, Russia, and goddamn Zulu, my only disappointment with Humankind's roster, why not Ashanti which is more advanced, more accomplished and less clishe Subsaharan civilization of this era.

Don't like them either, specially as an "Industrial" civ, but they've got the most name recognition of any African culture of the period. Again, I think a roster aimed at history enthusiasts would look very different to one meant for a general audience.

 

[Krajzen]

Honestly, as a non-native speaker I find Anglophones calling the Germans "Germans" extremely bizarre. The Germans don't call themselves that, most other languages don't call them that, and the nomenclature gets really awkward when you're dealing with premodern history. It's like if Ireland was called "Celtica" and Russia "Slavia" despite all the other Celtic- and Slavic-speaking nations around.

Yeah, "Germany" is very awkward name. But at least its not Polish "Niemcy" coming from "niemi" (mute) as in "what an incomprehensible language". And then there is French "Allemagne", so the world has found countless ways to invent strange names for Deutschland.

The evidence for Inca appears to be slim. It'd be regrettable if they didn't make it, but for whatever reason they've never been as popular as the Aztecs.

Inca are well known and loved it's just the fact we haven't undeciphered their writing (?) and they are slightly less characteristic than incredibly spectacular Aztecs with their eldritch deities, bloody rituals, enormous cities, pyramids, obsidian blades, well documented exotic society and so on.

But the real reason Incas probably won't happen here on release is, I think, being consisted with no Andean civ at all on release. I mean, there is limited amount of slots, and filling one for Mesoamerica and Andes would make 20% of first three eras Prefolombian civs. And there is North America top, with its Cahokia, Mound Builders and Pueblo.

I think Andes civs are DLC/expansion material.[/QUOTE]

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There's no reason the Inca shouldn't get in as they would be the prime culture for South America.

MODERN - Japan, Turkey, Italy

I'm surprised nobody mentions Canada as one of the modern era cultures, or Australia, unless they are being lumped together with the UK.
Considering Amplitude is in France, Canada and it's French influence, would at least be on their minds.

 

[notNamed]

If you guys want to have fun speculating, you could try to find out what this (left) thing is supposed to be. MENA cities around it, always appears with a hippodrome in the same city.

And it's not like the British are exempt from Industrial, we just don't have any evidence for them. Viz.:

Spoiler :

There's a pretty clear French and red British uniform for the avatars. I wouldn't dare guessing the others but you're free to try. Seems like there's no Austria, sadly.

 

[Siptah]

If you guys want to have fun speculating, you could try to find out what this (left) thing is supposed to be. MENA cities around it, always appears with a hippodrome in the same city.

And it's not like the British are exempt from Industrial, we just don't have any evidence for them. Viz.:

Spoiler :

There's a pretty clear French and red British uniform for the avatars. I wouldn't dare guessing the others but you're free to try. Seems like there's no Austria, sadly.

old graphics for the Mycenaean EQ or City Center is my best guess for that architecture. Not that would make sense in that surrounding.

 

[notNamed]

old graphics for the Mycenaean EQ or City Center is my best guess for that architecture. Not that would make sense in that surrounding.

Well, at least I know I'm not the only one who thought that.
But no, the Mycenean buildings have been set in stone since the initial reveal. And while the surrounding walls do seem like some sort of old fortress, the building on top of it looks like something out of late Roman mediterranean. The current guess is Byzantines or something related to the Venetians. Someone even noted it had elements in common with Herod's palace in Jerusalem which would explain the surrounding architecture as some sort of Crusader state.

 

[ehecatzin]

And Zapotecs because with the inclusions of Olmecs, it had been mentioned "maya, zapotecs and aztecs" in twitter.
.

I wouldn't look too deeply into that quote, Olmec culture is thougth off as a "mother" culture to the rest of mesoamerica (except west mesoamerica) so it makes sense to mention a bunch of civilizations that had their roots on them. It could be more a case of Amplitude covering their bases, to add the Zapotecs later on down the road.
Also the thing with Zapotecs is that they are so long lived (they still around and kicking) that probably the best spot for them would be classical in their golden age. Now that we are at it, an expanded mesoamerican civ list to me would be something like:

Ancient- Olmec
Classical - Zapotec, Teotihuacan
Medieval - Mixtec, Itza, Purepecha

In another thread I have asked for the screenshot of an ultimate "spotted civilizations and units" compilation.



Thank you.

I mostly like this list, and I like the fact I have managed to predict many civs without examinating it before (I have just remembered it was posted somewhere).

So medieval era confirmed are Franks, "Teutons", English, Vikings, Arabs, Aztecs, Khmer, Mongols and "Ghana". This is actually almost perfect for my vanilla 10 civs needs. I just really damn hope the 10th civ is Byzantium. Also, I'm 95% sure "Ghana" is Mali. Also, "Teutons" are really weird civ name (same weirdness AoE2 did) but its understandable as "Holy Roman Empire" is horribly awkward name and scope for "medieval German" civ" and a game removed from European geo - historical background.

I think we've spoted the Byzantium city style and Hipodrome, my gut feeling is that Byzantium is in, and the "Ghana" culture is going to be Songhai on early modern.

Early modern era is Ottoman, Venice/Italy, Spain, Dutch, Poland, Japan, Korea and... Ming. The first seven are perfect civs for this era IMO; I am just bewildered by the idea of bypassing classical and medieval (arguably the greatest eras in Chinese history) and putting next incarnation of China in early modern, and it being Ming, AND three East Asian civs in one era I'd say I hope this is mistake and Ming is actually in medieval, but that would kick out Byzantium and I really hope for its inclusion.

Also, Mughals seem to be in (thank God, I love this civ) and they can only be in EM. The problem is, Inca seem to be in as well. So either no EM Subsaharan civ (awkward) or no Byzantium in medieval era (horrible). Well, if I had to choose from this two bullets, I'd reluctantly remove one African civ, especially as TSL maps are problematic in this game anyway.

I wholeheartily agree with the Mughal sentiment, I think they deserve to be in. But I think the west African civ (whatever it is) is in, in the music feature we see west African instruments, and they put a lot of emphasis on a shared cultural track, and then a solo instrument to reflect a particular culture. .

I'm fearing the battle for the last early modern spot is between Inca and Mughal, I haven't seen the incan unit, (didnt know about it) but if thats true, that's a bit more conclusive than the Taj Mahal, which could easily be a stand alone wonder. maybe Mughal would be DLC material (and I'll be honest I'd pay for any DLC that adds more cultures to India)

My gut feeling is very similar to your list, Ottoman, Venice, Spain, Dutch, Poland, Edo Japan, Joseon, Ming, Inca, and Songhai/Mali/Ghana

Industrial era is Germany, Russia, and goddamn Zulu, my only disappointment with Humankind's roster, why not Ashanti which is more advanced, more accomplished and less clishe Subsaharan civilization of this era.
Now with those eras the real fun begins. I think this era includes also Siam, Nepal and Sweden (I'd put all of them here even if they weren't spotted).
It also seems Revolutionary France is here (very weird instead of Great Britain which actually started the entire era, and dominated it, but ultimate incarnaiton of France had to be put somewhere).

I agree It's so odd Great Britain isn't in industrial, seriously, Zulu and France and no Great Britain to butt heads? is there any chance the Spitfire is a "skin" and not actually a Unique unit? I just don't see them pushing GB to modern, I think I'll put them on industrial, because to me that era it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Germany, Russia, France, Great Britain*, Siam, Meiji, Sweden, Zulu, Iran, Haudenosaunee

Modern era is Soviets, America, People's Republic of China and Brazil. Also apparently UK which is bizarre to me, I'd much rather see France as modern era civ (WW1 heroism, de Gaulle, its role in EU etc) and Great Britain in industrial era. Besides those civs, I'm absolutely certain India is in modern era, and it is very probable Ethiopia is here if not in industrial - it is the only decent representative of Subsaharan anyway, except Nigeria.

So, that would leave three slots in industrial and three in modern.
I think it could be
INDUSTRIAL - Iran, whatever Americas civ, Afghans
MODERN - Japan, Turkey, Italy
Why these?
Iran - as a second, Islamic, incarnation of Persia; 18th century was its last century with spectacular imperial power (Nader Shah) before its terrible decline and very politically controversial 20th century history It would be also an excellent proposal of Aesthete or Builder civ.
Whatever Americas civ - to fill the slot, and there are a lot of possibilities: Mexico, Argentina, Gran Colombia, or indigenous people such as Iroquis or whatever Native US group, so I refuse to even try guessing that one.
Afghans - 18th century was crucial for the history of Afghanistan and Pakistan and formation of these states as we know today; it was also the period of their great military power in Asia.
Japan - why in modern not industrial? Because for the entire 18th and 19th century it was either isolated or just westernizing, while it was one of few major superpowers in 20th.
Turkey - as a representative of Islam in 20th century (fitting, as it was probably the most consistently strong Muslim country this century) and second incarnation of Ottomans.
Italy - both Italy and Germany only united in very late 19th century so they could go both here or to industrial, but Germany goes into industrial (probably fitting, as "Prussian power"), so Italy is the most logical European civ for 20th century and we could use one more civ here. Also, it had a ton of achievements and influence in 20th century. Also, as a final incarnation of Italian civs line.

For me the modern era could go as:

America, Soviet Union, CCP, Brazil, Ethiopia*, India, Turkey, Korea, Italy, Mexico

* Are for both Ethiopia, and GB, should GB be in modern, well, I think they could switch around. I think that Japan could be Meiji and then trascend to the modern Era and carry representation, sort of like France and Russia, however I think a good contrast to the CCP would be Korea.

Also, one ultimate reason: not sure if you have noticed, but with UK, Napoleonic France, Prussian Germany, Italy, 20th century Japan, Soviets, modern America and PRC we have almost perfect roster for "the spirit of" WW2

Yeah, I like the direction they are taking in that the modern Era sets up WW2 and the cold war.

 

[Siptah]

Great Britain is hopefully not present in any era, but the UK instead.

 

[Siptah]

Well, at least I know I'm not the only one who thought that.
But no, the Mycenean buildings have been set in stone since the initial reveal. And while the surrounding walls do seem like some sort of old fortress, the building on top of it looks like something out of late Roman mediterranean. The current guess is Byzantines or something related to the Venetians. Someone even noted it had elements in common with Herod's palace in Jerusalem which would explain the surrounding architecture as some sort of Crusader state.

Venetians? Hopefully the get something with a bit more elegance and canals on the CC tile maybe.
Byzantines? Sure. The walls fit and if they go with earlier Byzantines so does the „main building“

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I havent seen this spitfire concept art but I dont think it suggests a spitfire unit or Britain as a modern civ. It may be because the spitfire will be used as the generic fighter plane in the same way Civ 5 used a T-34 for the tank hence the concept art.

I cant see them skipping Britain in the industrial age given their role in said age. Surely Britain and France are the two certain European additions there.

 

[mitsho]

Eh, these confirmed lists make too many assumptions for my taste. Wonders, Units and Descriptions don‘t have to mean anything really.

So on Tuesday we will get the Arabs or Abbasids or in the case of Ummayads/Fatimids the Aztecs. Arabia is interesting since they can give them practically every trait. expansionist - just look at a history map; scientist - algebra is literally a arabic term; Militarist - It‘s new tactics that allowed them to expand so fast; Merchant - being the bridge between India and Europe; aesthete - a distinct architectural style was started here, there‘s lots of poetry and so on.

I struggle a bit for agrarian or builder, but there‘s the Dams or Marib or in modern times the whole of Dubai. The traits just don‘t fit to the medieval era or might work better for a sub-culture, i.e. I can see the Moors in the Maghreb/Spain as builders. Some might fit also better with other cultures, i.e. merchants, but they are certainly defendable for Arabia.

In short, I am curious on the direction they will take them on. I expect a boring Expansionist + Madrasse + Camel Archer though.