Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[j51]

What do you think Mexico's affinity would be?

 

[Narcisse]

Agrarian or Militarist ?

 

[ehecatzin]

What do you think Mexico's affinity would be?

Agrarian or Aesthete, I really don't see Mexico going militarist, sure the Mexican revolution is a thing, but Mexico on the whole? pretty bad at winning wars. Asumming Mexico on industrial is going to represent both Porfiriato and Post revolutionary Mexico, Agrarian could very well fit with the Hacienda and Aesthete to the cultural identity boom of post revolutionary Mexico (think Mexican muralists.)

 

[Narcisse]

The mexican EQ is in the screenshot too, I don't know if it's fit with Hacienda. Looks more as a monestary for me, and in the main artwork we saw a sort of revolutionary with a sombrero

 

[ehecatzin]

The mexican EQ is in the screenshot too, I don't know if it's fit with Hacienda. Looks more as a monestary for me, and in the main artwork we saw a sort of revolutionary with a sombrero

any chance you can link the image?

 

[Narcisse]

bottom middle left

 

[ehecatzin]

Oh I meant the artwork, but, thanks you saved me from having to look for this one.

Looking at it, yes it does look more like a Monastic convent, which honestly makes much more sense than the hacienda to me, Monastic orders were everywhere in New Spain, and they had so much power that...taking down the church a peg or two was the whole point of the Reform war.

Nowdays most ex convents have been turned into museums, universities and cultural centers, in the middle of any Mexican city you'll find tons of churches and ex convents doting the landscape.

So it could after all be that Mexico is Agrarian with a Aesthete style EQ.

Former convents in Mexico. (Its in spanish but it gets the idea across)

Spoiler :

https://matadornetwork.com/es/ex-conventos-mas-hermosos-de-mexico/

 

[Narcisse]

it's relatively small in the artwork, but it's this :

 

[ehecatzin]

oh nice, that's a Soldadera, a woman at arms during the revolution...yeah that's a thing I admire a lot about Amplitude, their art team does their homework.

Spoiler :

Well if Mexico is Agrarian, with a Aestethe EQ and a revolution Unit, I think they'd cover all their bases.

 

[mitsho]

Yeah, so the announcement of the Austrians makes the industrial line-up very eurocentric. I count 6 out of 10 cultures and that excludes Mexico.

 

[CivLuvah]

I was thinking... will they replace the "Builder" affinity with "Industrial" in the Industria Era? Or will it remain the same?

 

[ehecatzin]

I was thinking... will they replace the "Builder" affinity with "Industrial" in the Industria Era? Or will it remain the same?

I'd imagine they'll leave it at "builder" for clarity's sake.

 

[BuchiTaton]

oh nice, that's a Soldadera, a woman at arms during the revolution...yeah that's a thing I admire a lot about Amplitude, their art team does their homework.

Spoiler :

Well if Mexico is Agrarian, with a Aestethe EQ and a revolution Unit, I think they'd cover all their bases.

Seing that artwork seems likely that Soldadera would be the mexican EU, specially considering the potential to have some healing ability.

But I find wrong to have as EU something associated with an civil war. I mean you could be doing perfectly OK as Mexico on game but would you send your own rebels againts other nations?!

Why not Lanceros as EU, lancers corps were pretty representative of the few mexican victories againts American and French troops.

Spoiler Lanceros, Mex-USA war :

Spoiler Lanceros, French Intervention :

Not to forget that this lancers are related to the colonial "Dragones de Cuera" from the northern New Spain.

Spoiler Dragones de Cuera :

I mean even the Cowboys tradition come from the Vaqueros of northen New Spain/Mexico. La Charrería is the mexican national sport, and is also based on the rancher life style, so perfect for the agrarian focus.

Lanceros and Charros represent the economic success of the Haciendas and the national defense. (Even the Asociación Nacional de Charros was supposed to fight back the Nazis on the WW2!).

While Soldaderas represent the social injustice of the Haciendas and a war of Mexicans vs Mexicans.

You can put a small Lienzo Charro on the Hacienda EQ!

Spoiler Charrería :

 

[Guandao]

Some even speculate the Argentinians, as agrarian, will be in the industrial era.

I guessed that's not happening in Humankind vanilla, judging from the reveal of the Austro-Hungarians today.
Really? Only one South American culture (Brazil) in the entire vanilla? I'm hoping for DLCs to add the Caral/Norte Chico, Chavin, Tiwanaku, Moche, Nazca, Wari, Muisca, Mapuche, Tupi, Guarani, Chimu, Inca, Kuikuro/Kuhikugu, Marajoara, Omagua, Argentina, Gran Colombia, Peru, etc.

 

[ehecatzin]

Seing that artwork seems likely that Soldadera would be the mexican EU, specially considering the potential to have some healing ability.

But I find wrong to have as EU something associated with an civil war. I mean you could be doing perfectly OK as Mexico on game but would you send your own rebels againts other nations?!

Why not Lanceros as EU, lancers corps were pretty representative of the few mexican victories againts American and French troops.

Spoiler Lanceros, Mex-USA war :

Spoiler Lanceros, French Intervention :

Not to forget that this lancers are related to the colonial "Dragones de Cuera" from the northern New Spain.

Spoiler Dragones de Cuera :

I mean even the Cowboys tradition come from the Vaqueros of northen New Spain/Mexico. La Charrería is the mexican national sport, and is also based on the rancher life style, so perfect for the agrarian focus.

Lanceros and Charros represent the economic success of the Haciendas and the national defense. (Even the Asociación Nacional de Charros was supposed to fight back the Nazis on the WW2!).

While Soldaderas represent the social injustice of the Haciendas and a war of Mexicans vs Mexicans.

You can put a small Lienzo Charro on the Hacienda EQ!

Spoiler Charrería :

You reminded me of that Poland ball comic about Mexico's worst enemy being itself. It would seem we only go into badass kickass mode on civil wars.

I agree that Lanceros would be the best choice for Emblematic unit, it showcases the Mexican horsemanship tradition very well. Porfirio Diaz was a cavalry leader during the French invasion, that's where he got his war hero status from. If you wanted to go specific as to not have just "lancer" be the unit they could go specific and have them be "Lanceros de Jalisco" as they were central in the aforementioned wars.

As for revolutionary units going around and invading other countries...that's exactly what Pancho Villa did tho, so It's not out of the realm of possibility. Dorados could as well be the EU. (Villa's Northern Division)

There's also the Rurales if they want the revolutionary unit look without going specifically for revolutionary units, and while they were most famous for being used by Porfirio Diaz, they date back to Juarez.

Heck they could even give Mexico St. Patricks Batallion if they wanted an early Mexican emblematic unit.

EDIT: Just wanted to add the name wouldn't have to be generic, they are known in Mexico as "Los San Patricios" (the st. Patrick's) so San Patricios would be ..honestly nice to see.

I think Lienzo charro is not an option now, the EQ does seem to be at least, related to convents.

 

[Xandinho]

I guessed that's not happening in Humankind vanilla, judging from the reveal of the Austro-Hungarians today.
Really? Only one South American culture (Brazil) in the entire vanilla? I'm hoping for DLCs to add the Caral/Norte Chico, Chavin, Tiwanaku, Moche, Nazca, Wari, Muisca, Mapuche, Tupi, Guarani, Chimu, Inca, Kuikuro/Kuhikugu, Marajoara, Omagua, Argentina, Gran Colombia, Peru, etc.

The Andean historic line works perfectly for DLC:

Caral > Nazca > Inca > Muisca > Gran Colombia or Mapuche > Argentina.

I think the same can happen with Africa and Oceania.

 

[BuchiTaton]

I think Lienzo charro is not an option now, the EQ does seem to be at least, related to convents.

The EQ on that picture seems kind of undefined to me. Certainly have some Convento looking parts buts seems unfinished. I wonder about the open part, that side is more like a Hacienda, and, Is the church right next on the left part of it? Anyway most haciendas have big chapels like the conventos.

Well, for sure convents were a key institution on the formation of the New Spain/Mexico, catholic religion on general was. I commented on another thread that if Spain get "Catedral Gótica" as EQ so Mexico could get "Catedral Barroca" Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, José María Morelos, the Virgen de Guadalaupe as independentist banner, the influence of the Franciscans, etc. Also mexican culture goes side by side with convents, literary figures like Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz or how many mexican dishes are supossed to were created by nuns (Mole poblano, Chiles en Nogada, Jericalla, etc.)

So for sure Mexicans would have an Agrarian/Aesthete mix on their design, and Soldadera is an interesting option with some good points to stand out from other units, namely be female and the potential healing bonus. Still like you said Lanceros de Jalisco or optionally Rurales would be the best option to represent the mexican militar history and the rural tradition. Soldaderas would always be a symbol of the mexican people, but being mainly from a civil war is not the best to represent a nation on the game.

The Andean historic line works perfectly for DLC:
Caral > Nazca > Inca > Muisca > Gran Colombia or Mapuche > Argentina.

I would prefer:
Chavin > Mochica > Inca > Mapuche > Argentina

Caral is interesting being so ancient but seeing Sumerians or Minoans out of base game, this seem being not the main focus for devs.

Personally I see Mochica more interesting that Nazca, more militaristic, with some more of art from where design them and still have the agriculture on the desert element and huge Huacas.

About Muisca I think that If Aztecs and Incas are medieval, so must be Muiscas.

Mapuche also fit a similar role that the Haudenosaunee, while Argentina complete the trip from the Central Andes to the Patagonia with the Argentine "Conquista del Desierto". Still Industrial era represent the late 19th century european migration to Argentina, the Gauchos and the early Tango.

Muiscas > Caribs > Grand Colombia also deserve a place but maybe as an northern "alternative line" of south american cultures.

Caribs could looks weir on this line, but we must consider that Orinoco and Guyana caribs allied and traded with Portuguese, French, Bristish and Dutch againts the Spanish+Arahuaco missions on what is now the Llanos of Venezuela and Colombia.

 

[ehecatzin]

The EQ on that picture seems kind of undefined to me. Certainly have some Convento looking parts buts seems unfinished. I wonder about the open part, that side is more like a Hacienda, and, Is the church right next on the left part of it? Anyway most haciendas have big chapels like the conventos.

I think the church besides it It's part of the design, it doesn't show anywhere else in the city buildings in the screenshot. I think however that you have a point, churches or at least chapels are also a fundamental part of any Hacienda, it could as well be..just, an Hacienda. If it was the case I would expect it to be surrounded by agrarian districts tho, not city.

While haciendas have also been reconverted into hotels all over the country, I think having the EQ be Convents would play more into their religious importance during the formation of Mexico as well as their modern importance as cultural institutions (now as former convents). I think that is a bit more emblematic than haciendas turning into hotels. (tho it could as well go for a mix of both ideas they are so intertwined)

I can say this personally, the church achitecture dotted all over cities and rural areas is much more a part of everyday mexican life than haciendas are. even looking at the screenshot I think the art team at amplitude picked up on this.

anyway it is, I'm just happy Mexico is in the game, that's never going to happen in Civ "because Aztecs"

 

[Narcisse]

Caral is interesting being so ancient but seeing Sumerians or Minoans out of base game, this seem being not the main focus for devs.

Actually, Caral and Minoans are already in the game ... as Independant Poeple. For Sumer, I don't think it's a top priority, with Assyrians and Babylonians, we have the remains of post-sumer, some sumer symbolisms, etc ...
By the way, I don't think than being Independant Poeple close the door to be a culture later (my dream of aesthete Minoans :> )

anyway it is, I'm just happy Mexico is in the game, that's never going to happen in Civ "because Aztecs"

Yes, again a fresh choice if confirmed.

about the idea of a possible Hacienda for the screenshot : It could be possible than the EQ of the screen need normally to be build as surrounded by food tiles. I mean the Siamese one, need to normally be build in water or as port, but they just switched the cultures in the same city for the trailer

 

[Meluhhan]

Yep, we make this comparaison on discord with the aerial view. Seems the most evident possibility.

Hey @Narcisse , could you please post a link to the Humankind Discord here?