Culture Victory - Need Some Pointers

[Hammurbabble]

OK, for the first time, I tried for a culture victory. Prince difficulty, large map, continents, Epic speed, playing as Hatshepsut (Creative seemed right). (Actually she came up on a random choice, which is why I decided to go cultural.)

I had the idea that one ought to be more peaceful when going for a culture win, which may have been my mistake, although maybe not (see below). Gilgamesh was my closest neighbor, and I considered doing him in an early War Chariot rush, but decided not to. Possibly another mistake in that he won with a spaceship, but then again he was my best ally throughout the game, too.

Since someone on the other continent founded Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism, and my own continent was still irreligious, I decided to Oracle slingshot to CoL and get Confucianism. Later on, I founded Islam, and in the only aggressive war I fought in the whole game I captured the Taoist holy city, so I had three religions going with shrines. I quickly passed Confucianism on to Gilgamesh, who converted, but in the meantime Mansa Musa finally founded Taoism and passed it to Roosevelt, so for a while it was us Confucians standing off against the Taoists. Eventually Mansa attacked Gilgamesh and took one of his cities, which I saw as a good opportunity, having built up my military a whole lot. I took the city Mansa took from Gilgamesh, came just too late to take his capital (Gilg took it), but took two other major cities from Mansa, including the Taoist holy city. Two others later fell by culture flip. I then made peace, thinking I'd taken enough time out from culturizing and needed to get back to it.

I made sure all three religions were in the three cities I was working on, and also later founded Civilized Jewelers and Creative Constructions and spread them, too. I built every cultural Wonder and building I could get, got all three Hit Wonders, got the Spiral Minaret, etc. Spread the national wonders around among the three. It's possible that I built too many wonders in my capital and not enough in the other two, because when Gilgamesh won, I had over 100,000 culture there, just short of 60k in my second city and around 55k in my third, and was advancing at about 1k culture per turn in both. Very frustrating. And I couldn't go to war with Gilgamesh and hose his capital, too, because I'd been jumped by Peter and his tag-along vassals. They were on the other continent, and basically wiped my navy, landed a huge invasion force, and watched it die. I made peace ASAP with a small tech bribe, didn't lose any cities, but had lost enough units that I was in no position to attack anyone.

It does occur to me that if I had backstabbed Gilgamesh mid-game, I could have taken him down to size, and nobody else was even close to winning the space race, but here's the other thing. The game ended in the late 1970s. I've usually won the space race, when that's what I was doing, in the 1960s. It seems to me that's a good target, and I should have found a way to culturize all three cities to Legendary by that date, in which case I'd have beaten Gilg. My capital made it long before the ship launched, but the other two lagged behind.

Anyone with experience winning cultural victory, I'd appreciate some pointers. My capital ALWAYS reaches Legendary even when I'm NOT playing for a culture win, but I've never had a second city get there, let alone a third. This was the closest I've come.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

A culture game should be won before you get the late game culture wonders, buildings, and corps. Cathedrals are much, much, much more important and you can get them much sooner.

So you need at least 6 cities. That lets you get 2 cathedrals for each religion on a standard map. 9 cities would obviously be better, but that many cities is hard to get without warring. 6 cities shouldn't be a problem on most difficulties, and even if you get boxed in with less, culture will flip a few more. Getting temples, and getting those religions spread to you is the most important thing.

Wonders aren't really important. The only wonder I would say is a must have is the sistine chapel. Extra culture from state religion buildings and specialists is super helpful. The pyramids for representation is also nice, so your artist specialists help with your science.

The most important tech is probably liberalism for free speech and the 100% culture boost. Delay scientific method as long as possible. You don't want to lose the ability to build those cheap monasteries.

Now, where is the bulk of the culture going to come from? There are 2 methods, cottaging, and then turning the culture slider to 100% and turning all that commerce into culture, or specialists. Specialists are better. Have your 3 main culture cities running as many artists specialists as you can. They'll produce great artists that you can use to culture bomb, or settle. Also the rest of your cities can keep teching normally, since turning up the slider to 100% won't raise your culture cities' culture much. They shouldn't be working much more than farms, the only commerce would come from resources. The cottage method is very risky as you stop teching, and be forced to fight infantry and tanks with rifles.

As for traits, creative is very weak for cultural wins. The best would probably be philosophical, for more great artists, and if you build the great library, you can use the scientists to get to liberalism faster. Industrial is good for getting the pyramids and sistine chapel, and assorted cheap wonders if you have the special resources. Financial is also good in case you decide to go the cottage culture route, and is just a good trait for any game. Spiritual is good because you'll be building tons of temples, and just being able to switch civics on the fly is good. Switch to US to rushb uy some temples or cathedrals, then switch back to representation without losing a turn, for example.

Creative is weak because the 2 extra culture isn't much, even with multipliers. The cheap buildings are cheap even without the reduced costs, and the colloseum doesn't even give culture.

And don't neglect your army, nothing can ruin a culture game faster than getting attacked.

 

[Hammurbabble]

So you need at least 6 cities. That lets you get 2 cathedrals for each religion on a standard map. 9 cities would obviously be better, but that many cities is hard to get without warring.

Well, I didn't stay peaceful the whole game. I had 6 cities founded in the early settlement rush, and grabbed four more in the war, total of 10 (plus two culture flips later on bringing it to 12). I was on a large map though. Different ceilings? Seems I built two cathedrals in each city but couldn't build three.

The only wonder I would say is a must have is the sistine chapel. Extra culture from state religion buildings and specialists is super helpful. The pyramids for representation is also nice, so your artist specialists help with your science.

I tried for the Chapel and failed to get it. Didn't even try for the Pyramids, and was fairly late getting to Constitution. I'll keep that in mind.

The most important tech is probably liberalism for free speech and the 100% culture boost. Delay scientific method as long as possible. You don't want to lose the ability to build those cheap monasteries.

Check on both. I was first to liberalism, and I made sure I had all my monasteries built before getting SM.

Have your 3 main culture cities running as many artists specialists as you can. They'll produce great artists that you can use to culture bomb, or settle.

I did that, and was running Caste System for a long while so I had a LOT of artists in my cities, but despite that I only popped two Great Artists the whole game. I always seem to pop lots of Prophets and Scientists, but not many of anything else. (I never got a single Merchant or Spy, and only two Engineers.)

Now, one of my three culture cities was on a flood plain and I sort of automatically cottaged the flood plain squares. It still grew to size 26, but would have been bigger if I'd farmed them instead.

As for traits, creative is very weak for cultural wins. The best would probably be philosophical, for more great artists

Ah! Now there's a good suggestion. Thanks much.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

I find the main keys to cultural victories are Artists, and the culture slider. At least one of your big three cities should be running maximum Artist specialists because they A) pump out a lot of culture themselves, and B) generate Great Artists. Settling Great Artists's is very powerful earlier until the end of the renaissance or so. After that use any Great Artist to Culture Bomb whichever of the 3 cities is lowest in culture.

Build any culture buildings possible in the big 3 cities, as many temples as possible in every city, and anytime they have nothing important to build just build culture. Once I reach Liberalism I usually drop my science slider to 40-50%, switch to Free Speech and start cranking up the Culture slider AND building culture while I finish up researching Nationalism, Democracy and Rifling. Then I drop the research slider to 0% and max the Culture slider. In non big 3 cities I build Markets, Grocers, Banks, or wealth until I can get the culture slider to 100% then just cruise on to the win. Last Cultural Vic I got was just after 1700 AD so the later culture wonders weren't a factor.

Tech-wise prioritize:
Aesthetics for the Parthenon
Literature for 2 Nat. Wonders which produce GA points, and the Great Library never hurts to build.
Music for the free Artist, and Cathedrals.
Drama for Theatres, culture slider, and the ability to build culture.
Liberalism for Free Speeches +100% culture bonus.
Nationalism for the Taj Mahal's free golden age, and Hermitage.

Arguably the best leader is Pericles of Greece (Phi/Cre). Loads of Great Artists with Phi, Creative for all kinds of cheaper culture buildings (that don't require religion), and his UB the Odeon is a Colisseum which gives +2 Happiness (instead of +1), allows you to run 2 Artist specialists, and produces 3 Culture per turn.