Cumulative PM-based History Quiz II

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I think googling is acceptable (as long as it is officially allowed) if you already have a pretty good clue.
For example, I knew that painter and one of the pictures in Rambuchan's 10). I know enough about 20th centruy art to write an abstract about styles involved - but, I haven't seen pic 2 so far. In such a case, I consider it legitime to search for a large image of the other pic.

And, film and book titles are problematic for non-native speakers. No problem with 'Love in the times of Cholera', of course; but I'm lost with the 'Red Lantern'. Didn't check so far, but I think I've seen it - under the German title.

I fully agree that it isn't that interesting to google/wiki whatever for a question where you have absolutely no idea. Wiki easily provides the full answer for the 'Monkey' question; but that is nothing I'll submit; I have indeed never heard if that one before .

 

[Rambuchan]

Hi I am back from an excellent night. Let me thank YNCS and Doc for their answers . Some impressive responses . I will be sending you two a PM later with scores etc.

Now about Googling: There are a number of reasons why I have chosen to officially allow Googling on this quiz:

1) There are not enough people who play the quizes and Googling, in making it a bit easier, hopefully attracts more players.

2) A quiz is a knowledge test, as has been pointed out, however what do you learn from them? What new insights do you get? If we run the PM based quiz on this basis you're just coughing up stuff you already know. All the effort the quiz master has taken to lead you down interesting paths is lost.

3) As a PM based quiz you've got lots of time (a week in this case), so it's worth spending that time googling and reading away to find out more on the topics the quiz master has laid out.

4) There is no way of telling if someone has googled or not, so I'm not going to 'enforce' a non-researching approach to the quiz, especially given the above.

5) Thanks to the introduction of the picture clues, Googling doesn't guarantee a high score. Many of the questions I've asked can not be Googled in a jiffy, I made sure of that. So Googling doesn't kill the quiz.

6) I've chosen many questions simply from books I own. Googling would be hard in these cases but if you get a clue on a related subject you can eventually 'read around' and get to the answer.

I am sorry if this has opened a can of worms. The easiest way of dealing with this is simply maintaining the rules as I have stated - Googling and further research is allowed - as I'm quiz master for this one. I hope it livens up these great quizes a bit more and gets others involved.

Also, I am welcoming follow up answers. So please don't let just your first answers stand. You have time, and hopefully the inclination, to become even greater history buffs, so do it . (This is in place for all the reasons above.)

Finally I should say that my position as QM atm is not deserved. I broke the rules last time, albeit unknowingly - I googled and wasn't aware that I was not allowed to. I'm sorry. I hope you will enjoy the quiz nonetheless and do please forgive me.

 

[Ciceronian]

Finally I should say that my position as QM atm is not deserved. I broke the rules last time, albeit unknowingly - I googled and wasn't aware that I was not allowed to. I'm sorry. I hope you will enjoy the quiz nonetheless and do please forgive me.

I thought so. 16 points was an usually high score for such a quiz, and so the whole thing smelt rather fishy!

 

[Rambuchan]

Latest Scoreboard:

Nonconformist: 4.5 points
Doc Tsiolkovski: 8 points
YNCS: 17 points!

Don't rest easy YNCS . Doc is to resubmit, Luc hasn't submitted yet and there could be anyone else walking in with a massive score.

 

[Rambuchan]

I thought so. 16 points was an usually high score for such a quiz, and so the whole thing smelt rather fishy!

I can only apologise. If it's any consolation I knew quite a few of them already. I still hang my head in shame for not reading the rules properly.

 

[Richard Cribb]

Hi I am back from an excellent night. Let me thank YNCS and Doc for their answers . Some impressive responses . I will be sending you two a PM later with scores etc.

Now about Googling: There are a number of reasons why I have chosen to officially allow Googling on this quiz:

1) There are not enough people who play the quizes and Googling, in making it a bit easier, hopefully attracts more players.

2) A quiz is a knowledge test, as has been pointed out, however what do you learn from them? What new insights do you get? If we run the PM based quiz on this basis you're just coughing up stuff you already know. All the effort the quiz master has taken to lead you down interesting paths is lost.

3) As a PM based quiz you've got lots of time (a week in this case), so it's worth spending that time googling and reading away to find out more on the topics the quiz master has laid out.

4) There is no way of telling if someone has googled or not, so I'm not going to 'enforce' a non-researching approach to the quiz, especially given the above.

5) Thanks to the introduction of the picture clues, Googling doesn't guarantee a high score. Many of the questions I've asked can not be Googled in a jiffy, I made sure of that. So Googling doesn't kill the quiz.

6) I've chosen many questions simply from books I own. Googling would be hard in these cases but if you get a clue on a related subject you can eventually 'read around' and get to the answer.

I am sorry if this has opened a can of worms. The easiest way of dealing with this is simply maintaining the rules as I have stated - Googling and further research is allowed - as I'm quiz master for this one. I hope it livens up these great quizes a bit more and gets others involved.

Also, I am welcoming follow up answers. So please don't let just your first answers stand. You have time, and hopefully the inclination, to become even greater history buffs, so do it . (This is in place for all the reasons above.)

Finally I should say that my position as QM atm is not deserved. I broke the rules last time, albeit unknowingly - I googled and wasn't aware that I was not allowed to. I'm sorry. I hope you will enjoy the quiz nonetheless and do please forgive me.

You certainly makes some good points and I should probably stated clearer that I don't mind googling in principle, only that I chose not to do it myself.
What others are doing is entirely their own business, of course.
And don't worry, my friend, you are very much deserving your position. There is really nothing to forgive, and in any case you have made ample amends with a great quiz!
I will probably check in on it in a couple of days, now I am about to devour a most excellent bottle of French red wine to celebrate the great result on last Sunday's referendum...

 

[Rambuchan]

A good way that Doc has done it to achieve personal satisfaction and pride:

1) Submit answers that you know without reasearching. I will mark this and give a score.

2) Do the research and then keep coming back with fuller answers to try and win. This will be your final score. You will have known how well you did without the research and yet you remain competitive.

Simple really.

 

[Rambuchan]

Ladies and gents, we have a new entry. That new entry has taken the lead by a massive margin. New scoreboard coming soon...

 

[Rambuchan]

Edited at 19:00 GMT due to fresh answers from Doc.
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Scoreboard as of Sunday 19.00 GMT:

4th - Nonconformist: 4.5 points
3rd - YNCS: 17 points
2nd - Doc Tsiolkovski: 32 points

1st - Plotinus: 37.5 points
Plotinus' lead has been narrowed much by Doc's latest submission.
Doc is also withholding some answers on research / principle reasons. He would otherwise take the lead perhaps?

(Both 1st and 2nd have still only scored about 50% of the total points though )

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News at 18:00 GMT

Plotinus has become the first person to crack his way into the diamond question. By getting one name of the diamond he has managed to give the correct names for a number of the people in the portraits. Plotinus has also become the first person to give me a picture of the Urumi weapon in action. This has picked him up the 3 bonus points which can now no longer be taken by anyone else. (Think of it as a great wonder .)

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News at 19:00 GMT

Doc now becomes the second to crack into the Diamond question and the first to correctly name the mines the diamond came from.

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I will be posting some clues and clarifiers in a minute or two.

 

[Rambuchan]

Firstly let me thank those who have submitted for taking part. I've seen some very insightful reasoning to arrive at both wrong and right answers .

Now here are some clues and clarifiers:

2) People are correctly identifying the other two empires which shared a common name with the Safavids. However no one is coming close to hitting the mark on what this name was. This name comes from a scientific advancement which all three had made, thereby making them "The 3 ??? Empires". It's quite a common reference in history.

4) a) Regarding the names of the diamond. Persons No. 1 and No. 3 respectively named the diamond or lent one of their names to the diamond. b) There is a page which will trigger most of the answers to this question but not all the people are named in this. You will have to dig much deeper to get the full points. Remember there is a feast of I think 12 points to be had here.

7) This comes from a book I have. I appreciate that this legend is attributed to a few ethnic groups within this nation and I am accepting any which concur with the book.

8) The first person to find a picture of this insignia will be awarded 3 bonus points as with the weapon question which Plotinus picked up.

13) People aren't coming close with this one. The nation is a monarchy / constitutional monarchy and the religion is alluded to in at least one of the other questions.

Also people have commented that the diagram / painting is not anatomically or perspectivally (sp?) accurate. They are looking at the painting in the wrong way. This is an example of 'Emotional Perspective' or 'Significance Perspective' painting, which is seen in Egyptian, Mughal, Flemish and many other painting traditions around the world. The perspective favours seeing every element from its best angle. Simple as that. In this regard the painting is more accurate than people have commented.

16) I can only restate that it is the 5 SHIA pillars / principles I am looking for. Not the wider Muslim or even the Sunni. This is not a trick question and the Shia branch does observe 5 pillars / principles which are distinct from the other two mentioned. If this was a Catholicism and Protestantism question I don't think people would be getting confused or thinking it is a trick question and I guess that's why I am asking it .

19) No one has come near with this one and I don't expect them to . The link I will provide in the answers for this question is an absolute treasure trove of info and a mighty research tool.

20) There are indeed many nuts which get used in making this sweet but there is one in particular. The question clearly asks for the most commonly used nut. Thought I would mention this as I'm getting some pretty nutty answers

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

On the painting in 13): It's not that the perspective is problematic...it's that the anatomy is completely wrong. Lot's of bones that don't exist, others completely missing, and the joints . For example, the human body has two thin underarm bones, not one thick .

 

[Rambuchan]

On the painting in 13): It's not that the perspective is problematic...it's that the anatomy is completely wrong. Lot's of bones that don't exist, others completely missing, and the joints . For example, the human body has two thin underarm bones, not one thick .

Oh well you are the Doctor after all. I don't know about anatomy but I thought maybe it was the perspective you were getting at. Sorry about that. I hope it's an interesting comment on perspective though and I hope you can point out more anatomical inaccuracies from this 11-12th century medical painting.

 

[Rambuchan]

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Scoreboard as of Sunday 22.00 GMT:

5th - Nonconformist: 4.5 points
4th - YNCS: 17 points
3rd - Redtooth: 19.5 points !! NEW ENTRANT !!
2nd - Doc Tsiolkovski: 34 points ! Updated !

1st - Plotinus: 37.5 points

(still only about 50% scored of the total points though )

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News at 22:00 GMT

Redtooth has stepped up to the plate and has fired off an impressive 19.5 before really getting stuck in with the research. I am expecting a strong bid on the lead judging from the answers I've received so far from the latest entrant. Redtooth has also been the first to correctly answer the Shia Pillars question - well done!

Doc has come in strongly with more answers and is now within reach of the lead. I know he has the knowledge to score the necessary points.

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Thanks again to all the participants. It's turning into quite a little contest now .

 

[YNCS]

I have submitted my answers. I could find more by Googling, but I don't Google on these quizzes.

 

[Plotinus]

Well, I have a big appetite. I did Google, of course, since it was explicitly allowed, and it's rather fun as Rambuchan has cunningly chosen lots of questions that can't be simply mechanically answered with Google. Perhaps each quiz setter should specify whether research is permitted or not and aim to tailor their questions accordingly. Makes for a bit of variety...

 

[Rambuchan]

I agree Plotinus. From my POV I would find hardly any value in doing a quiz which I can't research on. Please don't take this the wrong way but it's a bit of ego pumping IMO going for a quiz off the top of your head. Like I say, you just roll out what you know and you learn and remember hardly anything new. I'd happily take part in such a thing but I would much rather learn new things from all you wise folk. But I agree it should be up to the QM ultimately. My two cents.

New scoreboard with Plotinus' new score going up shortly. From a quick read of his new answers I can already say that he has bumped his score up majestically - but they ain't all right Plot .

 

[Plotinus]

Goddammit! It's going to be a matter of pride now with those questions. It's getting personal.

 

[Rambuchan]

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Scoreboard as of Monday 12.30 GMT:

5th - Nonconformist: 4.5 points
4th - YNCS: 17 points
3rd - Redtooth: 19.5 points
2nd - Doc Tsiolkovski: 34 points

1st - Plotinus: 46 points ! Updated !

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News at 12.30 GMT

Plotinus has now become the first to correctly get two names of the diamond. He has also now got FULL marks for a number of questions including the poet Ma'sud Sa'ad, the Urumi weapon quote, Kimchi, and many more. Well done! (but there are many points which are still eluding you my friend)

Doc has still got more answers but now I am less sure about whether he can catch Plot's extended lead. But then there is still much to play for before the deadline.

Redtooth is still to resubmit and Luceafarul is yet to submit at all.

Anyone breaking the 50 point barrier gets the 'worship' smiley next to their name in the scoreboard .
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I'd like to start up some discussion on some of Luc's questions. Is it best to do it here, open a new thread or what?

 

[privatehudson]

I personally dislike "Google" based quizes so won't be taking part in those types.

Then again I so rarely get answers to the questions I set that me winning wouldn't be an entirely good thing anyway, so all in all I'll probably sit it out in future.

 

[bed_head7]

How about for every quiz, each person sends in a first set of answers without googling. Then, if they wish, they go on to send in a googled list of answers, getting the research value aspect of answering, and by doing so also get a chance to show off their research skills. The "quizmaster" would then publish the results of both. I suppose the honor of making the next questions would go to the non-googling winner, while a separate honor would need to be found for the googling winner. I think this would probably give everyone what they want, more or less, as it shoudl help increase participation while still allowing the most knowledgeable around here show off their stuff and also get to put the quizzes together.

I would probably send answers in more often if the system was like this. Generally what I have done for the quizzes I have happened to answer is guess on all of them that I can, and then check on ones that I know I should know, meaning they are really easy to check to be sure. If I was right, I leave the answer in, if I was wrong, I remove it since I feel stupid sending in the wrong answer when I should have known the right answer. If that makes any sense at all.