Cumulative PM-based History Quiz II

[Rambuchan]

How about for every quiz, each person sends in a first set of answers without googling. Then, if they wish, they go on to send in a googled list of answers, getting the research value aspect of answering, and by doing so also get a chance to show off their research skills. The "quizmaster" would then publish the results of both. I suppose the honor of making the next questions would go to the non-googling winner, while a separate honor would need to be found for the googling winner. I think this would probably give everyone what they want, more or less, as it shoudl help increase participation while still allowing the most knowledgeable around here show off their stuff and also get to put the quizzes together.

I would probably send answers in more often if the system was like this. Generally what I have done for the quizzes I have happened to answer is guess on all of them that I can, and then check on ones that I know I should know, meaning they are really easy to check to be sure. If I was right, I leave the answer in, if I was wrong, I remove it since I feel stupid sending in the wrong answer when I should have known the right answer. If that makes any sense at all.

These are all really good points also and valuable input. Seems we need to discuss this a bit before Friday and the next quiz arrives.

We are all agreed that greater participation is desired by all yes? If we consider that then here are some reflections which others can add or modify to help us decide.

GOOGLE QUIZ

Pros
a) You learn much more.
b) There is the ability to have greater depth in the questions.
c) You can open up more dynamic quizzes ie. bonus points for pictures and other bits of researching.
d) The quiz matures over time as the scores can fluctuate more.

Cons
a) This unfairly favours people with lots of time on their hands.
b) It isn't a test or competition of people's 'in-house' knowledge.
c) Researching breaks with PM based quiz tradition.
d) This runs against some people's principles.

NO RESEARCH QUIZ

Pros
a) These are more of a challenge.
b) These are fairer for those who do not have hours to hang out researching.
c) This is the way it has been done before / what people are used to.
d) These are quicker and can therefore deliver more.

Cons
a) These are low scoring.
b) You don't learn much that you didn't already know.
c) These are relatively shortlived and frustrating as once you've exhausted your memory the quiz is over.
d) There is no way of telling if people have researched or not.
e) These are an exercise in boasting and are not productive IMO.

I like the idea of two rounds of entries but how would we adequately reward both the researchers and non-researchers?

 

[privatehudson]

I just personally don't have the time to spend hours on what essentially then becomes an exercise in how efficient I am with a search engine. I also don't necessarily think I'd learn much more from google quizes as I have a tendency to forget information that isn't in my period or area of interest. Well unless it's an amusing anecdote of course in which case I merely remember it wrong

Since I'm not likely to be taking part anyway in future though it's all rather moot.

 

[bed_head7]

I just personally don't have the time to spend hours on what essentially then becomes an exercise in how efficient I am with a search engine. I also don't necessarily think I'd learn much more from google quizes as I have a tendency to forget information that isn't in my period or area of interest. Well unless it's an amusing anecdote of course in which case I merely remember it wrong

Since I'm not likely to be taking part anyway in future though it's all rather moot.

I think what I suggested still sort of works with your desires for the quiz. The heart of the quiz as it has been run in the past remains the same, while it is more inviting to the less knowledgeable (like myself). If you choose not to participate in the googling portion, you will not be penalized in any way. You can still create questions as you have done in the past (and I have enjoyed some of yours greatly, and if you decide to leave I am surely not the only one who will be disappointed) and compare your knowledge of history to that of other posters in this forum. For you, the PM-based History Quiz can go on just as it has gone on for over 1000 posts, but an addition will be made so that the quizzes are more inviting. By the way, I am sure that if googling is allowed, the increased participation will also apply to your quizzes.

 

[Adler17]

Shall we make a kind of plebiscite running for a certain time asking for allowing google or not?

Adler

 

[Plotinus]

I'd say that it would make most sense to have people give non-researched answers and then researched answers and give them separate scores, and then add both lots up to get a final score for the purposes of deciding the next quizmaster. In effect, you would get double points for the ones you knew anyway, but Googling will still help you in the final count. But I don't see what's wrong with simply saying that each quizmaster can just specify the conditions and rules that he or she wants. That will allow different people to use different styles as they see fit, and it would mean more variety, hopefully keeping everyone happy.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

For me personally there are several categories of questions:
1) The ones I know right of the hat,
2) The ones I have a good clue but need some more hints/confirmation,
3) The ones I have no clue at all.

For Ram's quiz, I already marked which answers belonged to categories 1 or 2, and didn't submit those of category 3 - even if Wiki/Google gave me the answer.

I like googling. If the questions are aiming for that, such a recherche indeed can open new horizons. Rambuchan included several questions on Islamic topics, and here the usual Western sources didn't help at all - allowing to study some fascinating sites I've never visited before.

Also, we're getting more and more picture questions anyway.

So, I vote for 'Google is allowed + fine, if the quizmasters states so'.

On a similar topic: Language issues.
It's often impossible for me to answer a question about a film or book title without recherche; and I'd guess the French members face the same problem. Such titles are often not a one-to-one translation, so a dictionary doesn't help at all (and it's not a problem of my vocabulary anyway). Often enough it turns out there is no German title anyway, but:

Would it be possible to include the German and French titles in such questions if possible (imdb, amazon)?

 

[Rambuchan]

Adler: Don't think we need to or should vote for this. Might end up a stalemate and / or PMers might miss out on their vote. Also...

Plot: I am thinking that your suggestion is perhaps best. There may be too much variety of opinion and I'm still wondering about the rewards and inequailities between the researhers and non-researchers. Letting each QM decide keeps it unpredictable, simple and diverse.

Doc: You are right about the linguistic problems with questions centred on books and films. QM's need to be aware of this.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Ah... before you guys get carried away, you can set up your own kind of quizzes with your own rules in new threads... Or even a one-shot quiz - we did it commonly enough in the distant past.

Just so long as no overly duplication with existing ones.

As far as I'm concerned, so long as someone provides all the answers at the end of one round is good enough for me.

The rules for this particular quiz friendly will stay as it is.

 

[Plotinus]

Well then, perhaps whoever wins this quiz should start a "Googleable History Quiz" thread, and whoever got the most points on this quiz without Google should do the next one on this thread. O embarrassment of riches!

 

[Rambuchan]

Well then, perhaps whoever wins this quiz should start a "Googleable History Quiz" thread, and whoever got the most points on this quiz without Google should do the next one on this thread. O embarrassment of riches!

That sounds fair enough to me.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

IMO, a quiz here shld composed of at least some easy 'fodder' questions to get people to join...

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

IMO, a quiz here shld composed of at least some easy 'fodder' questions to get people to join...

IMHO there are hardly any 'easy' questions without national bias. Unless they're insanely easy ("Who lead the 3rd Reich?").
But those mid-level questions usually need to refer to something we've learned in school...

 

[privatehudson]

edit: double post

 

[privatehudson]

By the way, I am sure that if googling is allowed, the increased participation will also apply to your quizzes.

Perhaps, but I don't have the time to create quizes to the standards of the recent ones either, nor dual quizes, in fact now that I'm working a lot more I doubt I'll have time to create even the older style now.

 

[Rambuchan]

Well then, perhaps whoever wins this quiz should start a "Googleable History Quiz" thread, and whoever got the most points on this quiz without Google should do the next one on this thread. O embarrassment of riches!

I'm still in favour of this option. My only exception being - less players. But so be it. I believe this option would satisfy everyone.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

One of the issues I have is that there is no distribution on the question. Everyone posts what they're good at. That has produced what I call an "Asian Mafia", of several straight quizzes focusing on Asian history becase one guy posted an Asia quiz, then the high scorer was another Asian expert, and so on.

Now, when I look at a quiz about Asia, I realize I can get maybe one question, so I don't bother. When somebody sees one of my quizes and sees that its mostly American history, they probably feel the same way unless they are an American history expert.

So, my suggestion to keep the quiz popular is to have a distribution; i.e., you must have 2 questions on history of x, 2 on history of y, etc. Now, this means that easy questions will be all but assured; I am not going to write a super-hard question about Asia and somebody like Mongoloid Cow isn't going to write a super-hard question about the United States.

So I think it solves all the problems without the abomination that is googling.

 

[nonconformist]

Hurrah for Nicator!

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Moreover, my suggestion would also mean that people who are uninterested in a certain area of history would be forced to study it, thus perhaps making them like it or, even if they still don't like it, making them know at least something about it.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Seleucus, I like that idea. A spread is what is needed to keep the quizzes going. On the topic of keeping quizzes going, how long has Lucearful's been going on for? I thought it was supposed to only be three days...

 

[Ciceronian]

Who is lucearful? If you mean luceafarul, his quiz ended almost a week ago.