Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Leoreth]

Because they are often (too often, I have to do something about this) uncolonized and that just doesn't make a lot of sense.

The Latin America rework is still a thing that is going to happen, so in the future Latin America won't be without their immigrants.

Screenshot of the new notification (emigration looks similar):

Spoiler :

 

[clark k]

has Mongolia received a stability nerf in this update?

 

[SheaferDaDawg]

Um, when you say ten turns off the cottage growth cycle, I am assuming you mean on normal speed. Is this balanced for Marathon and Epic as well, or is it a flat ten turns across the board, like with new spawning civs?

 

[Leoreth]

has Mongolia received a stability nerf in this update?

It was a couple of updates ago already, but yes.

Um, when you say ten turns off the cottage growth cycle, I am assuming you mean on normal speed. Is this balanced for Marathon and Epic as well, or is it a flat ten turns across the board, like with new spawning civs?

Forgot about different game speeds, but that's an easy fix.

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

You could change the Mongolian UP to only get the Keshiks when they raze cities, but get a few more.

I'd like to bring up this suggestion again.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I'd like to bring up this suggestion again.

This is a very balanced suggestion regarding the human player;
as it presents a choice for the player, but not a particularly hard one, as the obvious choice will always be identifiable case by case.
It rewards players who tend to inexorably shape the landscape of regions affected by their influence (me) and in particular, players who dislike seeing dozens of little cramped up cities.
Keeping a good city, is a good reward on its own, granted you capture it.
Razing a city, should have its benefits as well, not only in the removal of a weed in the presence of your lovingly crafted supercity.

However, herein lies the problem, and it rests with the AI.

The AI does not often raze cities. In fact, in tends to keep every city it gets.
Hence AI Mongolia, would essentially be left without a UP, as it wouldn't know how to use it.
If it did though, the other problem that comes up is that it could potentially snowball harder than it has been, pre-nerf.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

A few suggestions re: Immigration:

(1) It should only happen when the source and the destination civs have contact.

(2) The probability of it happening should decrease drastically without Open Borders.

(3) Protestant nations get a priority.

(4) Immigrants should only bring religions with a very small probability.

(5) It should not happen if the destination city has less than 2 surplus (since otherwise it would lead to starvation).

About (4), I think it is a bug that civs running Secularism still gets Stability penalty from religions. Specifically, America gets Stability penalty from any other religion than Protestantism, because Protestantism is its "hidden" State Religion. Another example is England, who will get a massive (-10 or worse) religion Stability hit from conquering India, even while running Secularism.

In general, removing the religions Stability penalty with Secularism is necessary to make it truly competitive against Organized Religion. Otherwise Organized Religion is vastly superior in most cases since you get better tech, production and commerce from faster infrastructure.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

(3) Protestant nations get a priority.

Considering the visibility of Catholic immigrant groups both past (Irish & Italian)
and present (Filipino & Mexican), I think not.

 

[Leoreth]

I'll look whether there are religious penalties for secular civs.

Other than that, it's hard to make the selection of cities dependant on contacts or open borders because both cities are chosen independently of one another.

Also, new commit is up, with the following UU changes:
- Minutemen now start with March
- Panzers now start with Leadership instead of Mobility

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Considering the visibility of Catholic immigrant groups both past (Irish & Italian)
and present (Filipino & Mexican), I think not.

Ireland does not exist in this game. It is represented by Britain, which is almost always Protestant. Italy usually does not exist in this game either.

Americans of French, Spanish/Mexican, and Filipino ancestries are mostly a result of the United States annexing territories formerly held by those states, rather than immigration. This is already represented in game as the residual French/Spanish culture after America takes over their cities. To represent them again in Immigration would be redundant.

Moreover, the Spanish and French had their own colonies to immigrate to rather than America. This is a big reason why Protestant nations (Germans and Scandinavians in particular) have a higher representation in American ancestry - its because these nations did not have large colonial empires themselves like the French and Spanish did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestry_of_the_people_of_the_United_States#Ancestry_maps

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Ireland does not exist in this game. It is represented by Britain, which is almost always Protestant. Italy usually does not exist in this game either.

Americans of French, Spanish/Mexican, and Filipino ancestries are mostly a result of the United States annexing territories formerly held by those states, rather than immigration. This is already represented in game as the residual French/Spanish culture after America takes over their cities. To represent them again in Immigration would be redundant.

Moreover, the Spanish and French had their own colonies to immigrate to rather than America. This is a big reason why Protestant nations (Germans and Scandinavians in particular) have a higher representation in American ancestry - its because these nations did not have large colonial empires themselves like the French and Spanish did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestry_of_the_people_of_the_United_States#Ancestry_maps

Actually, Ireland is represented in this game, as the Celts.
3000BC starts feature them as their own minor civ, starting in Gaul,
and then having their last city appear in Ireland.

Americans of Mexican, and Filipino ancestries are mostly a result of the United States annexing territories formerly held by those states, rather than immigration.

I really hope you're kidding.
It's true about the French, considering they do not emigrate very much,
but uh, Mexicans from Mexico and Filipinos from the Philippines are immigrating to the US all the time.
Yeah, some Mexicans have remained in California and Texas. There are even more from the country proper still coming.

I think forced hidden Protestantism bias for immigration makes America too deterministic as well.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

it's hard to make the selection of cities dependant on contacts or open borders because both cities are chosen independently of one another.

OK.

But you can require the owner of the SourceCity to have a certain tech (Astronomy, Economics, or both). This does not depend on TargetCity.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Actually, Ireland is represented in this game, as the Celts.

Haha, very funny.

I think forced hidden Protestantism bias for immigration makes America too deterministic as well.

There already is a very strong forced Protestantism bias for America in terms of religion spread. Which is necessary given how Secularist civs still suffer from religion Stability penalty.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Mexicans from Mexico and Filipinos from the Philippines are immigrating to the US all the time.

Would that happen if the United States had not annexed parts of Mexico and Philippines?

Say, why Philippines instead of Indonesia? Can you explain that?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

There already is a very strong forced Protestantism bias for America in terms of religion spread. Which is necessary given how Secularist civs still suffer from religion Stability penalty.

This is about the only thing I agree with.
That Secularist civs should not get a religious penalty.

 

[Leoreth]

OK.

But you can require the owner of the SourceCity to have a certain tech (Astronomy, Economics, or both). This does not depend on TargetCity.

Yes, that does make sense.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Would that happen if the United States had not annexed parts of Mexico and Philippines?

Say, why Philippines instead of Indonesia? Can you explain that?

There are more than enough examples of numerous countries who have never been annexed by the United States (in the relevant time period), whose nationals come here or came here to immigrate.

Mexicans and Filipinos immigrate here because they can make a better overall living compared to in their home countries.
It's kind of sickening to suggest that these peoples immigrate here by some form of national/post-colonial Stockholm Syndrome.

For the record, yes, there are Indonesian immigrants here too.
I didn't bring them up because they weren't relevant in the immediate religious context of Catholicism-Protestantism.

I seriously can't believe you're asking me this in such a tongue-in-cheek way.

 

[Cosmos1985]

...so now the target city is an eligible New World city with the highest sum of excess happiness and excess food (divided by two)

How is an Opera House-city handled with regards to excess happiness? (..And, well, in theory, a New World city with that Islamic wonder providing the same effect)

 

[soul-breathing]

Leo, I want to know what would happen when I move the civ of England to New York or Sydney and settle the capital there at the very beginning. Would the immigration happen at the Medieval? Or it need some other techs to trigger?

 

[mykeedee]

Would that happen if the United States had not annexed parts of Mexico and Philippines?

Say, why Philippines instead of Indonesia? Can you explain that?

What would happen if Germany had not annexed parts of Turkey?...Oh wait!

I'm with TD, I don't even know how you are logically justifying your argument to yourself.