Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Leoreth]

I'll address the Mercenaries vs. Warrior Code situation.

But I think part of the problem is that one makes creating units easier while the other improves using them, so I'm not sure how to address that.

 

[Jusos2108]

What the current benefits (and costs) of these civics?

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Warrior Code gives +50% GG emergence, no stability penalty for conquered cities and double production speed of barracks and stables while Mercenaries allows rushing of units with and +1 upkeep per unit.

 

[Jusos2108]

Thanks, and are the civic costs high, medium or low?

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Warrior Code
Reqs Horseback Riding
Low Upkeep
+50% GG Emergence
-50% War
Double production speed for Barracks, Stable
No stability penalty for conquered cities

Mercenaries
Reqs Currency
Medium Upkeep
+1 per turn upkeep for all units
Can rush Units with

Warrior Code wins by far. If you want to rush someone, just use Mercenaries for 10 turns and back to Warrior Code.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, the first step would be to apply the +1 gold only to units created by rushbuying them, and keep the effect even after the civic is abandoned. That takes some time though, because unit specific upkeep isn't supported right now.

And one of the Warrior Code effects has to go, I'm currently in favor of removing the GG bonus.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Okay, the first step would be to apply the +1 gold only to units created by rushbuying them, and keep the effect even after the civic is abandoned. That takes some time though, because unit specific upkeep isn't supported right now.

It doesn't work if you give them a promotion that gives +1 upkeep?

And one of the Warrior Code effects has to go, I'm currently in favor of removing the GG bonus.

I would prefer removing the stability bonus, making it medium upkeep and adding a negative effect.

 

[Leoreth]

It doesn't work if you give them a promotion that gives +1 upkeep?

Promotions cannot have this effect.

I would prefer removing the stability bonus, making it medium upkeep and adding a negative effect.

Switching around the upkeep is a good start. What negative effect do you have in mind?

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Promotions cannot have this effect.

Ghulams from SoI had it applied to specific units, I think. Is it possible to copy that or something?

Switching around the upkeep is a good start. What negative effect do you have in mind?

I can't think of anything.

 

[Leoreth]

Ghulams from SoI had it applied to specific units, I think. Is it possible to copy that or something?

Specific units, or specific unit types?

I can't remember different units of the same type having different upkeep costs in SoI, but if they do, maybe I can borrow some code.

It's not hard and I know how to do it (probably by moving the extra upkeep variable from unit types to unit instances), but it's a DLL change including updating the related save/load methods and so on, so it takes a bit more time than just creating a promotion and therefore cannot be done just on the fly. And I'm busy with Congress stuff right now.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Specific units, or specific unit types?

I can't remember different units of the same type having different upkeep costs in SoI, but if they do, maybe I can borrow some code.

It's not hard and I know how to do it (probably by moving the extra upkeep variable from unit types to unit instances), but it's a DLL change including updating the related save/load methods and so on, so it takes a bit more time than just creating a promotion and therefore cannot be done just on the fly. And I'm busy with Congress stuff right now.

Specific units only, I think. Three ghulam units.

 

[Leoreth]

Wasn't it that you could only have three Ghulam units and those cost extra?

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Wasn't it that you could only have three Ghulam units and those cost extra?

The max number you can have is 1 Ghulam Guard, 5 Ghulam HAs and 5 Ghulam Lancers (They are national units). All of these cost extra.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Planetfall has a promotion that halves the upkeep of specific units, mayhaps that could prove useful?

 

[Leoreth]

The max number you can have is 1 Ghulam Guard, 5 Ghulam HAs and 5 Ghulam Lancers (They are national units). All of these cost extra.

Yeah, so all units of that type have extra costs, it's just that their numbers are limited.

 

[mslavko82]

After 10 or more games on 3000BC start, it is definite that old civs needs to be toned down. In 9/10 games Greece, Rome, Persia survived long after they should be gone (half of the time Persia survives till Seljuks attack). Once, or twice out of ten is OK, but this is kinda too much. Also China is teching too fast, and given their stability (I've never seen them colapse or have a crisis), they became monster around middle-age. And poor Mongolia on 3000BC never had a chance... they do great on 600AD though.

Also, why there is no more Yerushalem on 3000BC start. Temple of Solomon is moved to Babyl... Doesn't make senes. Also, shouldn't Christianity be founded automaticaly around 0AD, if nobody finds it earlier? I tried several Byzantine starts on 3000BC, and only once or twice seen christianity founded (in Delphi-Greece, and Babyl-Persia), otherwise zoroastrianism was main religion (even in Greece?). And byzantines spawns at 330AD, by then Christianity should be there...

 

[Fresol]

Considering Jerusalem is doing pretty well with the Temple of Solomon inside of it in every game I played, I'd say there's something funny going on with your games.

 

[mslavko82]

Considering Jerusalem is doing pretty well with the Temple of Solomon inside of it in every game I played, I'd say there's something funny going on with your games.

Hm, very possible. I noticed Yerushalem is missing since v682, but maybe I should reinstall everything...

edit: Yep, you're right. Fu*k up on my part, after I reinstalled everything, not just updated, Yerushalem is there

 

[Hojsimpson]

My suggestion for the military civics

I think that if we had less free units Levy armies would be more desirable.

Mercenaries:
The only reason to use this is to rush a civ. You have to put research to 0% so you won't use mercenaries unless you want to destroy someone asap.
+1 gold upkeep per rushed unit is cheap, +2 or +3 would be better

Warrior code.
It's soo good, need nerf?

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Perhaps levy armies could give a certain number of cheaper noble knights in the medieval era, which would be disbanded when civics are changed.