D.C. Circuit guts ObamaCare

If you have the sniffles, then wouldn't it behoove you to use a neti pot twice a week and flush out viruses and bacteria? If it's hay fever season and there is an abundance of pollen in their air, then would swishing out the pollen be a good idea? A neti pot costs less the ten dollars. Salt and boiled water are pretty cheap.

It's amazing how in fifty years I've never heard a physician suggest this.

Perhaps they would rather be paid for the office visits.

Good thing this is an anonymous forum...if the AMA knew you were saying this sort of thing they would probably send out a hit squad.
 
Well, possibly just antiquated references. My kids are all in their thirties after all. But while the specific numbers may not be current the argument remains the same. The decision based on opportunity costs is skewed by disguising those costs through prepayment.

The thirty dollar standard copay and drive will cost me almost a half a day's take home wages in expense before any scripts if there are scripts. The ER visit closer to about half a week. And that's not accounting for the fact that this is almost the entire purpose of holding the full time job. And sht, even if my wife got canned we still wouldn't be classified as poor. Not particularly close. Reasonable supply and access problems are still things. Unless, of course, we think eliminating sniffles visits is going to bring costs under what the already problematic subsidized rates are now.
 
Access is a problem of distribution, I think. There is a massive demand problem, in the form of people who are not really sick flooding the marketplace, I am almost certain. With the definite demand side problem, and a likely problem in distribution, looking for supply side solutions makes no sense. We may have a supply side shortage, but under the circumstances who can tell?
 
Are you operating under the assumption that attempting to cull out demand has any prayer of catching rich sniffles before it catches poor pneumonia?
 
It's the Internet. There are lots and lots of physicians and medical students and RNs and so forth who give practical advice now. It's not specific advice to cure a specific individual case, but rational parenting advice because children cannot be expected to know not to swallow their phlegm.

Think about it. If your car battery goes dead, if you're poor or ignorant, you get an expensive tow truck to come out, jump it, and then replaced, and this is expensive. There might be simply a wiring issue or corrosion, but it might be the alternator.

Any guy or gal worth their salt can do ALL of that and cheaply and avoid the labor costs. But if they do preventative maintence and look under the hood, be more in tuned with how the battery is reacting while driving, and have a basic understanding of how it works, then they can teach themselves. A tool to remove the leads on a battery is no different than buying a tool like a neti pot to irrigate the nose.

This is not rocket science but common sense. Why would medicine be any different? It's rather annoying that people complain about doctors when they can't make some doofus stop swallowing their own phlegm.

Let's say some teenager comes in with acne. It might be a pregnant woman also because of hormonal changes. It might be stress induced in anyone. Well, if they used a little organic vinegar (pat on the skin) with active bacterial culture (so cheap to use) on a daily basis with a little clean water, then their skin would glow, cut down on skin bacteria, and improve their self-image.

Or they can visit a dermatologist, buy expensive creams of dubious value, take oral antibiotics, and still have acne.
 
@Dutchfire...while many people "could use some" economics says that it doesn't come without opportunity costs. Insurance, insurance provided in place of direct compensation in the workplace, insurance provided by the state...these are all methods for disguising the opportunity cost and getting doctors paid for services that their customers would likely not pay for otherwise.

The kid has the sniffles. Yeah, he may have ebola, but he by far most likely has the rhinovirus. You have a couple hundred bucks in your wallet for discretionary spending this week. Some peace of mind is available in the form of a well educated guy who for most of your cash will confirm that it is indeed the common cold and nothing to worry about. Is that how you spend your money? But you never actually make that decision, because you only recognize the five dollar copay as the cost of your peace of mind.

Well, you won't hear me arguing in favour of the current American healthcare system. I'm sure there's more than a bit of efficiency to be gained.
Here, you typically have to call before visiting a GP. The assistant will determine how serious it is, and if a visit will be useful. That catches most of the "the kid has sniffles" cases cheaply.
 
Well, you won't hear me arguing in favour of the current American healthcare system. I'm sure there's more than a bit of efficiency to be gained.
Here, you typically have to call before visiting a GP. The assistant will determine how serious it is, and if a visit will be useful. That catches most of the "the kid has sniffles" cases cheaply.

Unfortunately in America the purpose of the assistant is to determine how serious it is and make sure that some sort of billing can be justified.
 
So every other job in America should be about the acquisition of money for self-preservation, but a physician should be self-sacrificing and not care about money? Hoo boy.

Americans have this attitude with priests/pastors and physicians that anyone in those occupations is supposed to be noble and not charge and dispense free advice and not ever try to make a dime. It's tiresome.
 
So every other job in America should be about the acquisition of money for self-preservation, but a physician should be self-sacrificing and not care about money? Hoo boy.

Americans have this attitude with priests/pastors and physicians that anyone in those occupations is supposed to be noble and not charge and dispense free advice and not ever try to make a dime. It's tiresome.

I didn't say anyone should do anything for free. I just think that anyone working on the problem of medical care payments rising faster than inflation would do well to ignore most if not all input from doctors, as they are the ones directly benefiting from said condition. As far as I'm concerned one of the greatest endorsements of the ACA was that it was almost universally panned by doctors.
 
So every other job in America should be about the acquisition of money for self-preservation, but a physician should be self-sacrificing and not care about money? Hoo boy.

Americans have this attitude with priests/pastors and physicians that anyone in those occupations is supposed to be noble and not charge and dispense free advice and not ever try to make a dime. It's tiresome.
Serves you guys right as you advocate putting trial lawyers out of business by lobbying for special litigation protections.
 
Can we at least agree that doctors, pastors, and lawyers are tiresome? Toss in financial professionals and we might need to start mixing up some quick-dry.
 
Presently, probably not.
 
Who said to get rid of trail lawyers involved in malpractice? I said there were too many spurious cases. I said that insurance companies settle because the jurors feel empathetic for the patient regardless of the evidence. I said that patients in the case of obstetrics can sue from the birth to age 18, and due to Medicaid the reimbursement can be peanuts. It's literally not worth taking Medicaid patients in obstetrics because it's too risky.
 
Are you ok with doctors facing normal litigation risk or do you think they should have the special rules that have been put in place just for them?
 
Who said to get rid of trail lawyers involved in malpractice? I said there were too many spurious cases. I said that insurance companies settle because the jurors feel empathetic for the patient regardless of the evidence. I said that patients in the case of obstetrics can sue from the birth to age 18, and due to Medicaid the reimbursement can be peanuts. It's literally not worth taking Medicaid patients in obstetrics because it's too risky.

Obstetricians...

Those would be the guys who turned a fairly natural process that had previously been handled by pretty much whoever happened along at the time...and handled well enough to significantly overpopulate the planet...into a three hundred billion dollar a year industry...right?
 
They also have done a pretty good job at dunking infant mortality rates. If my wife had been born at home, I'd have never met her. You're doing a pretty good job of arguing for the winnowings today, I think. Intentional?
 
They also have done a pretty good job at dunking infant mortality rates. If my wife had been born at home, I'd have never met her. You're doing a pretty good job of arguing for the winnowings today, I think. Intentional?

I think everyone can point to an individual case where the presence of a doctor saved the day...but yeah, it's intentional. In the general sense, is "beating death" a good idea? Say we beat it tomorrow...where would your kids go? Their kids? If we put a moratorium on death would we not need to put a moratorium on birth?

I plan to die in my time and get out of the way, so I am less susceptible to the marketing tactics of doctors. That frequently gets me into this kind of discussion...but I am personally glad your wife is in the world, based solely on my passing acquaintance with you.
 
Are you ok with doctors facing normal litigation risk or do you think they should have the special rules that have been put in place just for them?
Define normal litigation risk versus the feeding frenzy we have today that contributes to rising malpractice insurance, which then must be passed along as any other business expense is passed along.
Obstetricians...

Those would be the guys who turned a fairly natural process that had previously been handled by pretty much whoever happened along at the time...and handled well enough to significantly overpopulate the planet...into a three hundred billion dollar a year industry...right?
OK, Pal. So don't go to the hospital, or seek well baby care, or have the OB/GYN check your wife. It's that simple. It's your choice to hire a professional or not.

It's no different than building your own deck versus hiring a carpenter and team. Sheesh.

People have a ton of options today. It can be a sterile procedure in stirrups or it can be in a very homey environment within the medical center, or be a home delivery with a midwife and a doola, or whatever. Do it yourself with your wife in a bathrub and sterilize the knife to cut the cord. It makes no difference to the rest of us who elect to use a doc. By all means, if your OB/GYN knows you're hostile to them being involved, I guarantee they'll be glad to drop you.
 
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