D&D mod: tjedge1-Mystara

[Eddiit]

One more suggestion off the top of my head. You really should find a way to include the INN as a building as it's a huge part of D&D like the tavern also maybe a magic shop. Sorry, I've always been a fan of lots of improvement possibilities and large tech trees.

For resources you kind of have to include silver and copper as those are vital to the D&D universe as a whole.

You should also find a way to include the sub races such as lizardmen,gnolls,giants,halflings,goblins,gnomes and drow. One way to do it would be to mirror what Warhammer did with halflings and make them a strategic resource. Albeit a very very very rare one. On the warhammer map their is only one halfling strategic resource. Each of the subraces could have some sort of wonder attached to them that maybe spawns a unit and have a few units depend on them. With drow for instance by just having access to them you could build a drow which would be something like a 1/1/1 with stealth that ignores mountain movement cost. When that same player gets archery youd maybe have a drow archer which would improve on those stats. Include a wonder like possibly The Temple of Lilith. Obviously the idea needs to be worked on but I think it would add a great deal of diversity and help to give the sub races recognition.

 

[tjedge1]

Just a thought, but have you checked out my overview post on the first page? Many of the subraces are included with certain civs. Yes Red Steel is a resource that will be on the Savage Coast region. That will be occupied by Eusdria, Orcland and Hule and any other civ that ventures that direction. Red Steel units are in the works. Red Stell comes from a mineral that after time hardens into the metal, the resource that is is listed as Cynnabryl or something. Clerics will be present, but I'm not so sure how they would do as units, so they may be more present as improvements and wonders like temples and churches. Of course Magic will be included, it is the foundation of Mystara, Spell Casting will introduce the mages. In fact many of your ideas are already being implemented to force the AI to have a variety army.

There are no Drow in Mystara, that is a Forgotten Realms race. Like Draconians to Krynn.

Rakasta on the other hand are in future requests, but I'm still waiting on my gnolls so there's no hurry there.

Sub-race civs that are included, some are mixed with humans and demi-humans,are:
Denagoth= Goblinoids/ Shadow Elves/ Gnolls/ Ogres
Frosthaven=Giants/ Goblinoids/ Ettins
Glantri=Goblinoids/ Vampires/ Undead
Hule=Goblinoids/ Giants/ Undead
Izonda= Half-Ogres
Malpheggi= Lizardmen/ Various Reptilian races
Orcland= Orcs/ Goblinoids/ Ogres/ Bugbears
Tanagoro= Minotaurs
Thoth-Ath= Gnolls

 

[Eddiit]

In any case you should have more than one religion represented. I think it would really be in the best interest of the mod to have diversity there. Also I think that having the schools of magic as major or minor wonders is a good idea. School of Enchantment,Conjuration etc.


Although subraces are included in the main civs I think it would add alot of stretegic value to have minor subraces as resources that are very rare. For instance if Hule is invaded why wouldnt the existing giants eventally help the invaders. It offers shifting loyalties for minor races and gives strategic value to certain areas. Minor races that have non-shifting loyalties would just be included in the unit set for those races. I really think it offers something to the game to have some races represented that way.

 

[tjedge1]

You are right it would, but I don't want to add resources as there are so many now, and more strategic resources will clutter up the city views. For now, I won't do that, but it is a possability for future plans. In other words, I won't do this in the beta, but once the beta is out I can add it then as it wouldn't be much trouble to a working mod. At the moment, I'm a bit overwhelmed. As individual religions might add diversity, I'm not sure as it's really necessary. That's a lot of work for the same effect. That might be a possability for later as well. A lot of units will be small or Great wonder produced like the Red Steel units, Gryphons, Dragons, etc. One major problem for religious diversity is the graphix needed. There aren't enough of the right ones. A basic concept showing that your civ has learned religion is enough for now. I'm glad your so enthusiastic as this makes me more in the mood to mod. Thanks for the support.

 

[Eddiit]

If theres anything I can do to help (like testing and what not) I'll be more than happy to. Religions might be able to be represented as techs and give access to a couple units and/or buildings. Maybe simplify them to five or so major religions to keep from overwhelming you .

How are you hadling governments? Are they locked like Warhammer or changeable?

Did you like my idea on schools of magic? I think it's a really good idea and helps to stay true to the D&D world. Eacg school can be offered as a tech and have a minor or major wonder attached. For example the School of Necromancy tech would give the school of necromancy wonder and maybe give the necromancer unit to evil civs. Maybe the school creates the unit and is a major wonder? Or maybe the unit is just civ specific and instead gives some sort of bonus. For instance the school of enchantment could give some sort of diplomacy bonus like the United Nations did in the original civ.

 

[Eddiit]

Good idea with holding off the monsters as resources. That is easily addable.

 

[Eddiit]

Sorry for the typos. I obviously can't spell today.

 

[tjedge1]

Governments is one of the things in this mod that is very complicated. There are somewhere around 25-30 governments. 90% are civ-specific. Some give huge bonuses to the civs that will be trapped a cramped in the known world so that even though they are small they will be tough to beat. It also will be interesting to see where the AI takes this. Each government as it's learned will be better than the ones before, but some will have effects of diplomacy when their neighbor gains a different government and they shun eachother. It's very complicated to explain all the variations, so I'll wait unitl the beta is ready and the civilopedia is being typed. That will be the longest job, as I want it to be very detailed. With around 300-400 units or more, that alone will take a while. If I do just 5 religions, then I can make the buildings cultural, whcih I had thought about doing anyway. The schools of magic are a good idea. Magicians were to be small wonder created anyway, so now you have given me the idea for how to name these things. I wasn't sure how to do that, but the necromancy thing fits so that will be how I do that.

 

[Eddiit]

Cool... I off the top of my head I dont remember all of the schools but I know there are like 12. Abjuration,Conjuration,Enchantment,Necromancy and darn I dont remember the rest. If you need me to find them I can it wont be hard.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Schools of Magic: Necromancy, Enchantment/Charm, Illusion, Invocation/Evocation, Divination, Conjuration/Summoning, Abjuration, and Alteration

There were also schools such as Elementalism and Dracomancy which Wizards of Glantri belonged to(Unique Units?), although Elemental Wizards are found threwout Mystaria(Mostly Wind and Fire Wizards)

For the Confused:
The School of Abjuration is about defensive magic(Like Barriers and Wall spells)

and Divination is basically Fortune-Teller stuff, like seeing the Future or getting information through magical means(A Magical Scout perhaps?)

Hope I've been helpful

 

[Eddiit]

Thanx man.... I didnt want to have to dig up old books. Well there they are.... perfect division for magic and a buunch of new useful techs.

 

[tjedge1]

Nice, thanks guys.

 

[Isak]

[Isak eyes thread suspiciously, sniffs again, and is certain that he's smelling AD&D rules - then decides to strike]



No, seriously, no worries if you're dragging in AD&D rules, I won't kick and whine, but just for the record, there were no schools of magic in the D&D core rules.

But yes, there were shcools of magic introduced in the Glantri Gazetteer, though they were called Crafts of the Arcane (I couldn't remember them either, so I dragged out the old books), and there were seven of them. Alchemy, Dracology, Elementalism, Illusionism, Necromancy, Cryptomancy and Witchcraft (reading from GAZ3 - pg.69).

[Isak scuttles back under his rock before Tjedge1 notices that the promised city lists still haven't landed on his table]

 

[tjedge1]

Originally posted by Isak
[Isak eyes thread suspiciously, sniffs again, and is certain that he's smelling AD&D rules - then decides to strike]



No, seriously, no worries if you're dragging in AD&D rules, I won't kick and whine, but just for the record, there were no schools of magic in the D&D core rules.

But yes, there were shcools of magic introduced in the Glantri Gazetteer, though they were called Crafts of the Arcane (I couldn't remember them either, so I dragged out the old books), and there were seven of them. Alchemy, Dracology, Elementalism, Illusionism, Necromancy, Cryptomancy and Witchcraft (reading from GAZ3 - pg.69).

[Isak scuttles back under his rock before Tjedge1 notices that the promised city lists still haven't landed on his table]

You have a point, and I'm not a real big fan of AD&D. Let's see. The schools of magic will be good, but I'm not quite sure how they should be added to the mod other than to create mages. Unfortunatly, mages are quite limited by the AI so I have to figure out how not to handicap the AI and still give the cool mage units. I'll brainstorm on this before making a conclusion. Maybe after I'm totally finished with setting up the unit lines. After that mages are an extra along with half the other units in the game and aren't real important to keep in certain orders due to the upgrade paths.

no worries Isak. I know the DyP/RaR rock is pretty heavy. I can't gripe too much, and most likely won't get grumpy till I have everything done, except what I'm waiting for others to do. That's a bit off still, but I'm busting my rear to get things moving quicker. Now I got to get back under my own rock to get some work done.

 

[Isak]

How about using mages for 'Stealth Attacks' and then letting their School ....erm ... Craft decide which units they can Stealth Attack, in some sneaky way? I'm just brainstorming though - would probably have to take a deep look at your (most likely) abundant notes, to come up with something even remotely useful.

Looking forward to seeing your beta - heck, you'll probably beat RAR by a mile and a half

 

[tjedge1]

I don't know if I'll beat RaR, but my notes are now nearly 3 spiral 70 page notebooks thick. That's not including severl excel sheets to keep my units in order. Your stealth attack in good.

I haven't really used some of the options available. What is the difference in an invisible unit and a stealth unit. I understand stealth attack, but not just the stealth flag. Has anyone figured this out yet?

 

[Eddiit]

@ tjedge1 I think invisible nits hide their countries nationality.

@ Isak There actually are schools of magic. sigh. I didnt want to break out the books. If you break out the newest edition D&D books and look under the mage character classes youll see the rules for handlig specialist wizards. They choose one school as their primary and receive bonuses then have certain school(s) banned to make up for the bonuses. A specialist in illusion is called an illusionist a specialist in abjuration is an abjurer so on and so forth. Witchcraft is actually part of the witch prestige class and is not a school of magic.

@tjedge1 If you include the schools ill write a post about what each school encompases and what their respective specialists are called.

 

[Eddiit]

By the way thanks for posting. It's good to see other people taking interest in what's going to be an awesome mod.

 

[Eddiit]

Oh and I was doing more research about elementalism and the like and I believe they are sub-schools which are smaller divisions of larger schools like enchantment and necromancy.

 

[Eddiit]

Just a thought- Necromancers could have the ability to turn killed units into skeletons. I think you use the enslave option for that one.

Enchanters could also have a version of that.