DA 05: Creationism vs. Evolution

Personally, I subscribes to Intelligent Design, or rather, "Intelligent Intervention" theory. That is, there is some force intervening in our development, which is responsible for the initiation of the chain of evolution via differential rates of replication, and which is always there to ensure that there is a "turning point" in the evolution of things. I do not know the purpose of such intervention, but can deduce that such a purpose exists, and that we play am important part in it. I will explain my chain of reasoning below.

Epistemologically, I believe that there are three methods of proof: perception, inference, and trustworthy testimony.

The first two are accepted as self-evident, axiomatic.

Now, many people might contend that the third isn't really true. But the counter-question remains - how can you trust what is said by eminent scientists if you cannot follow the inferential chain they did, because of a lack of qualifications to do so?

You will reply - "But science is based on a method! It has valid means of knowing what is right and wrong!"

And I would agree. So you, too, take certain things "on faith", so to speak, by setting the standard of the trustworthiness of a source at a point acceptable to you.




As to what caused me to doubt that the theory of evolution was adequate in explaining all life and its diversity, I shall elaborate.

First of all, the differences in chromosomes between species. I see no way that this could have happened through natural selection. This is the problem Dawkins refers to when he says that natural selection is slow and gradual - like a crane. Chromosomal addition, however, is like the proverbial skyhook.

Secondly, there seem to be "leaps" of evolution which cannot be accounted for by anything except a nudge in the right direction. That is, why are humans so disproportionately intelligent compared to other species? Unless the phenotypic effects of this intelligence were beneficial enough to pay the evolutionary costs in terms of other lost resource allocation opportunities, this should have been eliminated at the get-go. But it wasn't.

Now some people here might bring in the idea that sexual selection played a part. But the point is, why us? And why now? And why at the first chance available? Before us, there did not exist a creature capable of actually using intelligence, even if it had it. So it is possible that the "intervener", at the crucial moment, stepped in and made intelligence attractive, so that evolution would take the path it did.

Culminating in us.

We were probably the first agents of direct change in this world - the first ones through whom the intervener's ideas could be implemented by simply introducing into our population the appropriate meme. As to what purpose this whole exercise this is, I do not know. But time will tell.
 
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Carbon. Dating Carbon just show that evolution is immoral at its very foundations.
 
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Carbon. Dating Carbon just show that evolution is immoral at its very foundations.

It is unfair to call a system of dating "immoral", especially if you are trying to defend creationism, or Intelligent Design, or whatever. One of the problems inherent in creationism is the automatic assigning of moral and immoral, good and evil. Although these concepts are not completely subjective, there is nothing immoral about research for the advancement of science, unless it involves direct and willful harm towards other living things, like whimsical torture--as opposed to animal testing in reasonable forms.

To say, "God created Adam and Eve" as an introductory statement brings in three personalities that no one can prove even exist/existed. There would be far fewer problems with accepting a belief in "God" , and therefore "creation", if there was any tangible representation or concrete communication that could amount to real, hard facts.

Bringing "God" into any equation, like bringing in "good and evil", introduces concepts into a debate that hinges on at least minimally supportable facts. Carbon dating is a fact, whereas "god" is not.
 
It is unfair to call a system of dating "immoral", especially if you are trying to defend creationism, or Intelligent Design, or whatever. One of the problems inherent in creationism is the automatic assigning of moral and immoral, good and evil. Although these concepts are not completely subjective, there is nothing immoral about research for the advancement of science, unless it involves direct and willful harm towards other living things, like whimsical torture--as opposed to animal testing in reasonable forms.

To say, "God created Adam and Eve" as an introductory statement brings in three personalities that no one can prove even exist/existed. There would be far fewer problems with accepting a belief in "God" , and therefore "creation", if there was any tangible representation or concrete communication that could amount to real, hard facts.

Bringing "God" into any equation, like bringing in "good and evil", introduces concepts into a debate that hinges on at least minimally supportable facts. Carbon dating is a fact, whereas "god" is not.
If scientists were dating a good, clean Christian girl like Carla instead of dirty Carbon, they would appreciate one of God's great creations that hasn't changed or evolved at all. Bet Carla would even bake a nice apple pie for Joe Scientist.
 
When the majority of scientists were Christians, they were much better at wiping out diseases: vaccines for rabies, polio, etc. were developed. TB was wiped out. Leprosy had a cure developed.

Now the majority of scientists believe in evolution, and we're hardly seeing any diseases cured (and when we do, it seems to be an accident). I think that this is pretty good evidence that biologists are on the wrong track, and are holding back the rest of medical science.
 
Worth reposting
Science_vs._Norse.jpg
 
Would you rather believe God or a scientist, born human, the same humans who lie and kill?
If you believe we we're the end result of cells becoming fish becoming reptiles becoming monkeys, I believe you are the one who should go to school. I don't have scales! But if you believe it, so be it. Just wait to suffer eternity in hell.
But if you want to be saved, pick up the Bible, accept Jesus, and understand that science is simply the work of Satan, trying to decieve us yet again.
 
Of course God made the world. We build our houses didn't we? Where would he stay otherwise... :p
 
When the majority of scientists were Christians, they were much better at wiping out diseases: vaccines for rabies, polio, etc. were developed. TB was wiped out. Leprosy had a cure developed.

Now the majority of scientists believe in evolution, and we're hardly seeing any diseases cured (and when we do, it seems to be an accident). I think that this is pretty good evidence that biologists are on the wrong track, and are holding back the rest of medical science.

The time when the majority of "scientists" were Christians would be pre-1750 or earlier, before there was anything approaching a modern scientific community. The earlier European artists were digging up fresh corpses to study muscle developement, if I'm not mistaken, so how much was really known scientifically or medically then?

The vaccines you speak of were not developed by "christian" scientists anymore than our nation was founded on "christian" principals--unless those principals of love and forgiveness de facto include routine massacre and genocide of "lesser breeds". That was 20th century science, long after there were christian scientist.

The reason fewer diseases are cured is because of the wholesale population increase worldwide since 1950. There is a larger concentration of people in metropolitan areas than ever before, and there are far more chemicals and pollutants in the air, water, and food supply to create greater health problems that need to be solved. This has little or nothing to do with pre-eminence or otherwise of one perspective over the other.
(Which, of course, means that a discussion on the pros and cons of the medical community and the pharmacuetical corporations is getting off-topic).

Likewise, the current counter-culture trend on the left is the refutation of most modern medical practices in treating disease in favor of natural solutions. You can guarentee that if that is the direction the left is going in, the christian right is at a polar opposite--faith healing!:lol: :lol:
 
God speaks to me and he says he created the world. See i have plenty of evidence that God exists , he created the world.
 
God speaks to me and he says he created the world. See i have plenty of evidence that God exists , he created the world.

I'm not sure you guys are getting the concept here--or you are ignoring the Devils Advocate rules by being sarcastic. If you are strong enough on a given issue, you must surely know the points and counter-points of the opposing side, right? Or maybe the complexity of the concept itself has befuddled you?:crazyeye: :crazyeye:
 
We understand them, we just find them so meritless that our saying them is outright lying so instead we crack jokes.

A person playing Devil's advocate needs view the opposition as having some reasonable support (for example, I can see some points of goodness in a potential Ron Paul presidency); here must of us don't.
 
We understand them, we just find them so meritless that our saying them is outright lying so instead we crack jokes.

A person playing Devil's advocate needs view the opposition as having some reasonable support (for example, I can see some points of goodness in a potential Ron Paul presidency); here must of us don't.

So why are you "playing"? You know, when one gets themselves so high on their intellectual horse that they are grinning mightily down below, the evaporation of any trace of said intellectualism leaves only the dark stain of arrogance. Sort of like what conceit does to beauty.
 
So why are you "playing"? You know, when one gets themselves so high on their intellectual horse that they are grinning mightily down below, the evaporation of any trace of said intellectualism leaves only the dark stain of arrogance. Sort of like what conceit does to beauty.

Because it's funny to spam pointless threads.
 
So why are you "playing"? You know, when one gets themselves so high on their intellectual horse that they are grinning mightily down below, the evaporation of any trace of said intellectualism leaves only the dark stain of arrogance. Sort of like what conceit does to beauty.

The fascist octopus has sung its swan sung, the jackboot is thrown into the melting pot!
 
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