Dainichi Sekai Taisen version 2.0 Release

I was just thinking that if you really want to keep the effect of shipping raw materials to Japan and then sending them back out in supply form, you could do the following (implies more work though):

- Add new unit: Ambassador (diplo role; cannot be built).
- Add new unit: Merchant Port (immobile; cannot be built).
- Add new unit: Manufacturing (immobile; cannot be built).

- Remove all 'Japanese (P)' cities and units.
- Remove all 'Warlord' (i.e. Barbarian) cities and units.
- Rename 'Warlord' (barb) to 'Japanese Industry' (or whatever).
- Rename 'Japanese (P)' civ to 'Warlord.'
- Place the new 'Warlord' civ's cities where old barb 'Warlord' cities were.
- Place barb Manufacturing unit where Japanese (P) cities were (only in Japan though).
- Place Merchant Port near each historical trading city (under that civ's flag).
- Give Japanese 1 Ambassador unit.

- Event: spawn (interval) Japanese Resources unit in each Merchant Port square.
- Event: spawn (interval) Japanese Resources unit in historical resource-rich cities.
- Event: spawn Supplies in Japan when Resources destroyed (attacker=barb).

(Pardon the point-form, I don't meant to suggest anything. I just personally find it easier to put it all together.)

The result should be that when your Ambassador bribes a Merchant Port (a high cost but well worth it), Resource units will begin to appear there (the turn interval is whatever you think would be appropriate). You then send your Merchant Marine unit to pick up the Resources and take them back to Japan. Once there, you suicide the Resource units against one of the barb Manufacturing units (just as you would against the garrison of a Japanese (P) city) and Supplies appear (in Tokyo I assume). You then send them wherever needed as you normally would.

(Note that if the barb Manufacturing units are destroyed by anyone but the Japanese, nothing happens, except that the Japanese have one less Manufacturing unit at their disposal--hence the need to intercept any enemy units that might destroy the barb units; essentially the same strategy used with the Japanese (P) cities.)

When the embargo occurs, Japan loses here Merchant Ports and must depedn on colonial aquisitions (namely Manchuria).

Adding the manufacturing process makes it more complicated but at least this has the advantage of allowing you to swap the Japanese (P) civ with the barbs so as to have the Warlord player function as a real civ and you don't have Japanese (P) cities using city tiles in Japan. The Manufacturing units also look different from cities so Japan doesn't look as cluttered. Unfortunately, they still exhert ZoC but this can be compensated for--regardless of what you decide to do--by simply placing immobile Japanese units around those sqaures, thus allowing your units to pass through these areas without being blocked.

The one advantage Japanese (P) cities have is that they can re-build their units if destroyed whereas the barb units can't be replaced without an elaborate events structure to do so.

Some more suggestions:

- Organize starting units into stacks (since there's no risk of them bieng attacked first turn.

- Spawn Army Reserve units (home=none) in each city the AI captures. Aside from ensuring that the AI's offensive units keep going rather than garrisoning themselves in the city until defensive units arrive/are built, it also ensures that the AI will adequately defend its conquests. (Suggest reducing Army Reserve H/F.)

(Pearl Harbour shouldn't be that difficult to capture at first except that you have to get your units all the way over there. The practically invinsible Army Reserve garrisoned there makes little sense--Japanese Marines would have slaughtered the ill-prepared reserves at Pearl...had the Japanese actually invaded.)

- Add Troop Transport sea unit (very expensive) and make Merchant Marine coastal (and slower). Former is only buildable when war tech researched. This prevents any long-range amphibious invasions too early in the scen.

- Change Roads to look more rugged. They look too developed in areas where a dirt road would have been a luxury at the time. (Suggest at least removing the white dividing lines.)

- Naval Base improvement should be *much* more expensive considering a) its strategic value in a scen with this level of naval activity and b) because hisotrically, a naval base woudl have taken at least a year, if not more.

- Destroying US Battleship Row (Pearl Harbour attack) should have a visible negative effect on the US fleet (e.g. loss of shields to support naval units homed to Pearl Harbour).

- Give Infantry Japan ADM=6.4.2 and Marines Japan ADM=7.3.2 so that the former is the primary defensive unit. Otherwise there's no point to building more Infantry when you can build Marines for 10 more shields.


BTW, are you interested in including some kind of effect when the AI loses/gains resources? (Not sure if historically relevant, since most weren't exclusively dependent on a particular area like Japan was...AFAIK.)

Then there's the thing with getting the AI to make amphibious assaults: you have some good stuff like when the Japanese get tech, US Marines spawn at points ranging from the US to Australia to Japanese islands (depending on which of those the Japanese owns at the time). It's difficult to know what the AI will do with amphibious units; having amphibious and transport units in the same city doesn't necessarily mean that the AI won't just move the transport elsewhere and leave the land units behind. The MoveUnit action doesn't help because it will only result in the transport moving where you wnat it to but the land units will still get left behind. The only way of forcing 'landings' thatI can think of is to temporarily change the terrina next to the island to land, spawn the marines there and change it back again next turn (i.e. once the marines have attacked the city or moved into that square). You could also use 0-range air units (e.g. Airborne) but then you have the problem that the AI ignores the coastal flag and you then get these units patrolling all over the Pacific!



Some questions:

Why does the Civil Defense unit have the settle role?

What's the point of the 'Listening Post' cities?

Why don't all large coastal cities have Fishing Wharf?

What's with the Emissary speech (i.e. "I would like to present to you...")?


P.S. Spelling: Culcutta should be Calcutta.
 
Thanks for a really long post. Seems you are really thinking about DST. Let me see what I can answer -

What's the point of the 'Listening Post' cities?

- Add new unit: Ambassador (diplo role; cannot be built).
- Add new unit: Merchant Port (immobile; cannot be built).
- Add new unit: Manufacturing (immobile; cannot be built).


no more space for new units. plus you can count on the jap player to misuse diplo units. The listening posts are invincible Jap(P) cities and cause the Americans to waste all their units on attacking the LPs. This stops, well at least delays, the AI from sneak attacking. Terrain changes wipe them out when the appropriate trigger occurs - I think its when the first GI is killed by the Japs or something. Also note there is no more event space so adding something will involve removing another event and I think I have economized my text and events to the max as it is.

The thought that strikes me is a simpler version of your scheme - why don't I simply swap the Jap(p) cities with Jap(p) unit, some immobile sea unit anchored along the coast. That would solve all ZOC problems. All I need to do is make the immobile sea unit a settler and I don't even need Jap(p) cities - except for the listening posts.


Naval Base improvement should be *much* more expensive considering a) its strategic value in a scen with this level of naval activity and b) because hisotrically, a naval base woudl have taken at least a year, if not more.

Its already almost impossible to build a naval base in the pacific islands- unless you use disband three supplies units. Actually there is already very little incentive to build new naval bases, supplies need to be used for other city improvements.

- Give Infantry Japan ADM=6.4.2 and Marines Japan ADM=7.3.2 so that the former is the primary defensive unit. Otherwise there's no point to building more Infantry when you can build Marines for 10 more shields.

Err...you can't build either. Guess you haven't actually tried to build any yet.

- Spawn Army Reserve units (home=none) in each city the AI captures. Aside from ensuring that the AI's offensive units keep going rather than garrisoning themselves in the city until defensive units arrive/are built, it also ensures that the AI will adequately defend its conquests. (Suggest reducing Army Reserve H/F.)

I can't change the Army Reserve Stats cause some jokers start off the game by landing on the USA. That's how the Army Reserve unit came to be in the first place.

Then there's the thing with getting the AI to make amphibious assaults

The DST spawning system builds up a large supply of marines on single tiled islands, like tasmania, and when a transport is spawned on the island, it carries a few marines off with it.

Why does the Civil Defense unit have the settle role?

So it can slowly improvee the land with factories or roads. A request by a player from version one. If is is killed a replacement is spawned but if you use it to build a base, its lost forever.

Why don't all large coastal cities have Fishing Wharf?
Some coastal cities were changed to landlocked cities to prevent ships from being built in non-traditional shipbuilding cities.

Anyway, I'd like to learn more about how you play as Japan and how successful you are. Any details about how the AI reacts to you would be much appreciated too. Good luck.
 
LP cities: Ah, I see. Actually, no that I think of it, you may have already explained that to me. Anyway, that's good.

Events space/unit slots: Yeah, I only realized later that you were already maxed out.

All I need to do is make the immobile sea unit a settler and I don't even need Jap(p) cities - except for the listening posts.
That's should do it but why the settler role?

plus you can count on the jap player to misuse diplo units
I thought the player was intended to play as Japanese only.

Actually there is already very little incentive to build new naval bases, supplies need to be used for other city improvements.
Funny, that's one of the first things I focused on building in the closest island to the US if Pearl isn't available. Having a Naval Base near the combat area means that your units--even super battleships--are able to go from red-line to full health in a month, while the enemy has lost units that must now be replaced. Makes a victory at sea far more effective than without. (I always thought it was kind of like cheating to bea ble to heal a unit in a turn.)

Err...you can't build either. Guess you haven't actually tried to build any yet.
I realized later. When I played I focused on air units so I didn't think to look at the top of the list to see if inf were available. (Actually, the way I found out was by realizing that the obsolete tech for inf was owned by available to all civs--you can probably tell I spent a lot of time looking over the rules. :D )

Army Reserve unit: What I would usually do is surround the US border with immobile units and place immobile air units out at sea to force the US AI to detect any Japanese untis entering their territory. See, this is one of the problems with using sea transports. (I would suggest adding a new long-range transport unit with small hold and making the Merchant Marine coastal--even though the AI will ignore the flag--in order to limit the Japanese to island-hopping. As for the AI, I would suggest using events to force them onto islands so as to avoid the AI making amph landings all over the place. But you would have to sacrifice an existing unit and events for that though.)

The DST spawning system builds up a large supply of marines on single tiled islands, like tasmania, and when a transport is spawned on the island, it carries a few marines off with it.
Is it consistent in doing so? I mean, can you trust that the AI will actually do that?

Some coastal cities were changed to landlocked cities to prevent ships from being built in non-traditional shipbuilding cities.
Why don't you just use CivCity to set those cities to build coastal improvements but not sea units?

Any details about how the AI reacts to you would be much appreciated too.
I'll play more when I have some time. I played the 1941 scen to see how the combat played and it seems okay but the AI, of course, is as stupid as ever.

BTW, in case you're interested, I found that by doing the following, I could get MoveUnit to trigger each turn and 'capture' the AI units when their orders get cleared by contact with rival units:

- Create some inaccessible area of the map (e.g. a small square of water with two land tiles in the middle.
- Spawn barbarian Unit A (immobile; def=1) on one land tile each turn.
- Spawn AI civ Unit B (dest; atk=20) on the other land tile each turn.
- Whenever it is that civ's turn to move, the Unit B will destroy the Unit A and disappear.
- Have MoveUnit be triggered by UnitKilled (Unit A).

When I tested this, the Unit B moved before any of the AI's other units but Thing is, I'm not sure what determines which unit moves first (i.e. location, order of creation, by type).

(This has been used in various scens by triggering MoveUnit whenever a particular unit type is killed to 'urge' AI units on--you may have have actually used this in this scen for all I know. The method I used just ensures that the thing triggers at the beginning of the turn.)
 
That's should do it but why the settler role?

cause when all the Jap(P) are destroyed, having settler units will keep their civ alive.

I thought the player was intended to play as Japanese only.

that's what i mean, the jap diplo unit will invariable be used to bribe the likes of hellcats and even cities. House rules don't matter much.

Is it consistent in doing so? I mean, can you trust that the AI will actually do that?

yes it works well. only problem is any spawning island is practcally impossible to take after a while. thats why you got to go for/keep wake, miday etc early.

BTW, in case you're interested, I found that by doing the following, I could get MoveUnit to trigger each turn and 'capture' the AI units when their orders get cleared by contact with rival units

I've experimented with various schemes. The best settings are to choose a very huge area, all units and repeat the MOVE command every turn. Even so, it works haphazzardly at best. When a civ has only a few unit types this technique is applicable - like in the Breen from Dominion war.
 
kobayashi said:
The thought that strikes me is a simpler version of your scheme - why don't I simply swap the Jap(p) cities with Jap(p) unit, some immobile sea unit anchored along the coast. That would solve all ZOC problems. All I need to do is make the immobile sea unit a settler and I don't even need Jap(p) cities - except for the listening posts.

Ahh doesn't work. If the receiving port is a Jap(p) sea unit instead of a city, the raw materials unit would have to be an missile unit to attack it. Transports wouldn't be able to carry it but subs and carriers would. If the receiving port is a Jap(p) land unit, it would impose ZOC and defeat the purpose of the whole exercise.
 
You're right about all that: I guess you have everything pretty much covered.

MoveUnit: I've tried using the turn trigger but it doesn't seem to work very well, whereas the thing I suggested works every time.
 
yoshi said:
Starting units: You're right about the scens--some designers forget to tell the player where everything is and some sentried units in some corner of the map get overlooked.

I see you're point about the units. May I suggest then that you just have them already set to go somewhere (i.e. give Go To order, calculating that they run out of moves around where you want them to 'start' and save). That way, lazy bums like me have the choice of just letting the units go where they have to go--preferrably to a city where I can then just sentry them if I want--or taking over and sending them elsewhere. This can also help to give the player a sense of where to send units for use later on when hostilities begin.

I was checking last night to see what could be done and I saw that I had already set many of the sea units to sleep at sea - provided there was an active unit near it.

Let me know when you get to australia.
 
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