Dancing Hoskuld's tasks

Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
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Location
Canberra, Australia
new list
  • Modders documentation on missions outcomes and actions.
  • help rightfuture and crasyewok
  • merge in most of Platyping's Advance Settlers mod to fix the Colonist/Pioneer bug. Almost working but it does have some implications for our FreeNewCity implementation. (@Thunderbrd can I get at FreeNewCity from python? Basically we should display the information about the building being free in new cities on the tech that makes them free.)
  • not C2C - understand and try encapsulation and abstraction of the cvMainInterface.py just to make the code smaller and therefore not as frightening to modders
  • figure our why our terraforming python is not being called
  • create a Nomad screen similar to the city screen but for the nomad unit

Everything else except important bug fixes is now on hold until after the cvMainInterface.py stuff has been done.

Old list it is too depressing.
Spoiler :
Since Thunderbrd dis a list of stuff on his plate I thought I would do one to.

Working on now
  • Modder's documentation on how to use Missions, Outcomes and Python to add actions to a unit. See here
  • Small bug fixes as needed
    • Message colours still some problems here - do we want to go eventually from a single colour set to ones that are more friendly?
    • python problem in wonders I turn off ie the paved road and rail ones.Fixed Appian Way need to look at others
    • Merging Platyping's Natural Wonders
      • make messages not blue
      • check what you get when you discover a wonder. Doco says money but code says happiness.
      • extra spawn rates for some wonders - sharks in Shark Bay and the more difficult general spawn increase for Ngorongoro Crater since we don't know which ecosystem it will be in on random maps. in SVN
      • extra chance of volcano eruption and earthquakes near the volcano nat wonders.
    • Buildings for balanced era start and free at tech. Prototype mod available for discussion. Thread here
    • Malaria as a disease modmod. Smallpox to follow.
    • City Screen
      • Indicators on city screen for properties.
      • Replace Abandon City mod with new one that uses buttons. When we figure out where on the screen it will fit.
      • Examine merging in Platyping' s specialist code
    • Barbarian camps for SO
    • Foreign Adviser screen to show all spare resources rather than running off the end of the screen.partly done, the resources are now all on the screen but over flow their box and into the title of the box below
    • Check out Platyping's static movies
    • Check if Platyping's fixes to The Great Zimbawee fix the problems reported here
    • Split the hunting promotions into one set for land and another for ocean units.
    • reduce defensive bonus for subdued animals in cities, thy should only be at full/normal strength when defending from hunters and wild animals.

Known bugs and problems that need attention
  • Forests!
    • Something is wrong with the my implementation of Modifieda4's forestry mod.
    • Need some way for burnt forest to regenerate without working it for areas outside work areas. This so volcanoes can burn forest.
    • Need to add ways to remove burnt forest including regrowth and replanting inside work areas for the fire event.
  • Volcanoes - my previous fix seems to have turned them off! Instead of having one event perhaps it should be split into 3. Seems to be working mostly now but still has some problems.
  • Extra Specialists - we have extras specialists (doctor and lawyer) partially in game but they are showing up in the wrong place in the city screen.
  • Goody huts (ocean) are not scaling properly and (space) have not been addressed at all.
  • Terrain
    • space still to do - all not working properly may be because Natural Wonders have been implemented in a module which was done so we could easily add new ones.
    • pumpkin, squash and melons have bad low res graphics - has the modder that did these fixed this yet? doesn't look like it :(
    • many resources graphics eg wheat are not working properly any more. They look like swamp. Why?
  • pedia - routes when dll work done (see here)

Potential and New stuff
  • DRJ's great books idea.
  • Merging Platyping's mods
    • Enhanced Great People
    • The civ 5 Happy Golden Age?
    • Migrating Great People - definitely not, I already am testing one for C2C. I might pinch some of his code but I want to have Evacuating GP as well for C2C.
    • Bad People Mod - may use the graphics but I have always had different ideas on what the bad people do and how it interacts with C2C's crimes and criminals.
  • Enhanced diplomacy (diplomacy with Barbarians and Indigenous People and maybe AI nations. IP is from the WLBO mod as will be the diplomacy and events. (See thread here)
  • Early Diplomacy (see here). I hate the "Start as Minors" option which others seem to feel should be on by default.
  • Limited movement - limits how far you can go from your borders. Different units can go differing distances and techs increase the distance you can go. here
  • Religions - use Sevo's Faces of God mod and ideas in Rapture to replace all named religions and remove the race to get religions by making the whole early development more realistic.
  • Caves and pre-forts. Forts as mini cities ie with improvements
  • C2C Options screen
  • Bad Karma mod
    • Andromedia Strain
    • War of the Worlds invasions(s). Need extra Mars terrains so if event happens the remnants of the Martian civ, fauna and flora exist on the game Mars.
    • Pirates and Bandits. Adds a feature to the pirate events which then spawns those pirates. Adds special bandit events like the pirate events with a hideout. Hideout needs destroying to stop pirates/bandits. Need to be able to spawn units inside cultural borders and Great Wall fix.
  • Subdued Animals
    • more
    • fix croadilians - graphics are not quite right and need to add South American ones.
    • redo all the outcomes from kills, study and entertainment. Only managed to do the culture and research from the "Tales of..." units so far
 
Nice to see I'm starting a trend here - and a good one at that I think. ;)

Now that you have the mechanism tracking for the Specialist assignment screens, are you needing me to make sure the dll enforces those 'rules'?

Also, its going to be very high priority to make sure we can get those additional specialist types you mentioned there into play quickly. Are we planning on having the lawyer add xp for Law Enforcement types? Or should we add another new one - the Detective?

The CombatClassExperienceTypes tag for specialists is about to be committed to the dll later today and we'll need to plan out how those are going to be implemented so we can do all the xml updating at once for buildings and specialists so that it doesn't throw balance too much in the conversion process. We'll also have to update all military units to the Combatant combat class and isolate the GG's exp to Combatants so that'll be a very major use of the Sub-Combat mechanism and will have to take place during this conversion. I think I also need to add the Law Enforcement combat class and apply that to our TW line units so that we can give them their own XP sources...

Anyhow, now I'm rambling, but I do so to let you know what I'm thinking. I'm totally on board with the concept you laid out a while back about splitting up the XP sources for varying unit types (and controlling it by combat class).
 
The lawyer is the population specialist, it's great specialist is the statesman. Don't know why that is just how it is done in the mod I am merging.
 
i see a very healthy trend starting and i'm loving it when i found C2C i saw a lot of ideas being worked on and being shared over the last few months i noticed little (i was also slightly distracted by my life being it's usual mess) planning being done still there was enough to be confident it would pass and new ideas and old ideas would get made and worked upon and seeing TB's, DH's and hydro's lists it makes me smile and eager to see those neat ideas into their forms

keep up the good work lads :) C2C has so much more to offer you could almost say you guys are only just getting started ;):p
 
Yeah the Police line of units need to be on a Law Enforcement class instead of civilian. And the civilian should not get the promotions they do.

Civilian is the 'not-Combatant' or rather not militarily trained class. Law Enforcement would be a subcombat. In short, they would have both. But the Law Enforcement promos would be then tagged to the Law Enforcement CC.

I'll try to work in Throwing and Law Enforcement CCs tonight actually, even if they aren't on my 'list' currently I'll go update that to reflect this intention. It's getting very important for those two to be included properly!
 
Spies are not military trained units. They don't get exp from GGs. Civilian units on the other hand do get exp from GGs.

True... at this time. But our goal is to limit what units the GG affects and expand on the other specialist types and what types of units gain xp from those specialists, right? This was clearly laid out by your own suggestion post a while back and I thought it brilliant. Therefore, the new specialist CombatClassExperienceTypes can become useful in achieving this. :D (And this one is updated for the AI to understand its value as well.)
 
The story teller line should be getting exp from GAs and some artistic buildings. Units getting exp from their respective GPs instead of just from GGs is one of the suggestions in the Advance GP thread. Healers should be getting some exp from GGs but most from G Doctors for instance. Koshling had some ideas on better use of the entertainer units.
 
Well then the civilian class should not be getting XP and the law enforcement should be getting it instead.
True except that the original intention was to also keep GG exp out of the equation for the Law Enforcers as well. I'm thinking a Detective specialist, plus some additional CC specific exp for them being added to some buildings that support law enforcement and training would balance this out. We'd also need a Great Detective to go along with this, which could be rather interesting in and of itself. (Crime purge missions, special buildings, an ability to unfailingly 'bust' all enemy criminal units in a city, destruction of Criminal Organization headquarters etc...) Detectives would have a primary effect of crime reduction much as a Doctor would have a primary effect of reducing disease.

The Story Teller and Judge (both civilian units) should not be getting XP at all.
DH responded well to this. Since we'll be having a Lawyer specialist(btw, DH, what ARE the intended or even currently applied tag uses for that specialist? Could we use a specialist tag for reduction of anarchy time (both locally and nationally(perhaps 1% per lawyer specialist in the nation)? I can see them costing a little in gold to maintain - upkeep) I can see the Lawyer potentially adding some xp for Judges (if those units gain a bit more function that some promos could enhance...)

We've also discussed expanding on the uses and utility of Missionaries and not having them die after use. The priest specialists could/should add to the experience of those units.

Merchant units could also be adapted from one use units as well and could gain xp from merchant specialists. They could gain xp and promos to expand on their utility.


Also, note on the implementation of the Storytellers... I'm not sure I like them being so likely to 'perish' on use as they are now. I'd advise failure simply meaning being transported back to their city of origin rather than perishing. This gives them the opportunity to grow in their skills. As it is, its hard to imagine even a skilled storytelling unit surviving long enough to level from his efforts.

Units getting exp from their respective GPs instead of just from GGs is one of the suggestions in the Advance GP thread
I'd like to expand this concept to adding xp from even assigned specialists as well and see how it goes. Not more than 1 per assigned specialist perhaps but it'd be interesting to see how much it causes us to adjust our specialists to suit our current needs and plans in the game. Someone had created a mod where they included a Military Trainer as an assignable specialist and the more I thought about the concept the more I liked it. With this new tag, I can really see those being functional - and I wouldn't have a problem having them add some chance for GG's to be 'born' thanks to their GP pt input as you pointed out about the mechanism in the bug thread recently. I'd find that an interesting mechanism that could aid more peaceful civilizations in gaining a bit better XP output on their armies despite having rarely been to war.

What do you think?
 
While I was not asked (forgive my notorious lurking/commenting, y'all!)

I would like to enhance your idea, Thunderbrd.
The concept of using a Great General as an attached unit
or as a Great Gommander could very well be adapted to the missionary, trade merchant, judge, storyteller or even an "inventor" as well:

While you could either use the unit for a simple mission with big benefit (like the ambusher +100 spy points or the general attached to unit 30 xp) you could also get slow benefits if using them continously.

  • The Merchant (max 1 per 5-10 cities) could either receive a large lump sum like now (action: "sell all assets and retire")
    or receive a small lump sum when he arrives in a new city - as well as a little xp.
    The city he visited the last time will give not reward him again if he leaves and re-enters.

    At first, the Merchants yields will not pay off its maintenance costs he produces while travelling between cities, especially in own territory where the yields would be lower.

    But each trade also gives xp and at some time the promotions he gets would let him spot certain opportunities where to make better deals and have larger benefits. A new property supply and demand could be needed to be introduced for this perhaps.
    (This suggestion is inspired by the board game "Merchants and Marauders" which I gifted a friend recently)

    Some civics would standardize the yields of merchants (like socialistic one) others would have big difference of margins (profit) between the missions and also a chance for the merchant to "die" (to go broke).

    Some very experienced merchants could also build banks and receive promotions that are acticve in combinations with certain civics, like corporate and federal,
    preventing them from being percecuted for fraud and going broke
    (the "too big to fail" [or "TINA" {there is no alternative) promotion comes in mind (civic: mind control^^}]; upon picking it for the merchants -2 :mad: in each city until change of civic^^ ah well people tend to forget, let half of it expire after 150 turns :sad: )

    if used on foreign cities: "our trade relations have been fair and fruitful" attitude modifier slightly effected, + small amount (0.x) of xp

  • The missionary could have low autoconversion chances (promotions for increase) and could
    maybe have influences on the leaders of foreign countries. So if you had X amount of missionaries in the enemies cities their attidude modifier we are angry that you have a different state religion would rise to a certain amount until it lowers again. You could subdue a country this way -- much like the christians did with viking religions.

    If not used for slow and strategic use they could still do their original "convert" mission.

  • The storyteller would either have a significant amount of culture at once
    or, if in a city, be able to spread steady culture - less first, more with promotions. and also influence the attitude modifier of foreign nations "Our people are impressed with your achievements". Needs new cities like merchant for next xp/culture gain.

  • The inventor could either give an one time amount of hammers or science to a city
    or be used to steadily work as a development aid worker (in own lands +hammers in exchanging cities, similar mechanic like with merchant; effect in foreign nations: creating a chance to increase the "you helped us" modifier over time (which also slowly autoreduces!).
    XP for promotions of course would be given for each turn it actually influenced the modifier

  • Regarding the Judge I don't know I guess you already have concepts :)


For the Rogue or Ambusher or Spy I liked the "pick up rumours" action in cities.

The rumours would be like little events/quests, good and bad, giving xp upon success to verify them

(like: "in the tavern a old drunk man tells your rogue xy of a treasure he once hid somewhere next to city xy. if you look for it and find it (walk on that tile while on this quest) you will be rewarded nicely (xp and money)"
---> picking up rumours costs a lump sum (because in this case you had to fill up that ol' bastard to loosen up his tongue ;) )

As not all rumours are true you very well might search forever and find nothing so you could also disband rumours and pick up new ones with your units. Only one rumour could be active at the same time for each civ.
(also inspired by Merchants and Marauders)
 
Hey thx you like it!

As I imagine either the merchants are used up and return a larger sum like now ("sell all assets and retire")
or
they make a small trade mission that gives them some gold + xp. As autoteleport to capital after mission is off for them, they continue their traveling from he city they are in and head to another city where they could do it again (but the same city can't be traded with twice in a row)

If they are in foreign lands they would also receive a little "fair trade" modifier increase chance.

So how could a certain amount of profit be achieved if property "supply and demand" did exist? Here's how it could work:

The merchant enters in city A with "supply and demand" of 100

he drops off the supply and demand property value 200 he automatically picked up at his last stop (city B).

The supply and demand in city A is now 300

he receives 100+200:200 = 1,5 gold for the small mission

Had the supply and demand property value been higher when he arrived, like 400 for example
he would have received

400+200:200= 3 gold for the small mission.
The higher the supply and demand property value in a city the more it pays off to trade with it.

The merchants get xp per gold they make by small trades: in this case 3 gold = 00,3 xp

One of their promotions could be to be able to carry less property value with them

(they receive the max property of the city they put the property to.
Not 200 but maybe 150.
In this case the 400+200:150 would mean a total of 4 gold for small mission with promotion "shortage 1")

How could the property value be reduced and build up? Well, after completion of a mission the values in a city is floating out in the hinterland (the wares that have arrived are distributed to the countrysite), meaning that the city will have a steady outflow of supply until it and the tiles next to it are even again
and if not visited often it will also gain supply and demand value from elsewhere as the tiles next to it will swap it in the city again.
(yeah I know you know how the property system works^^)

After asmall trade the merchant would take as much value as he is allowed to carry up again and will have to go elsewhere while

Supply and demand property value is steadily created and distributed by trading posts and such. They regulate the total amount of value property in play (it should always be adjusted to the number of cities in play). The twist is that trading too much in certain regions would dry up the gains there over time.

Trading in foreign cities is more lucrative but also more dangerous, of course.

As lesser property carried over means in this model bigger profit
perhaps some thinking is needed to reverse this.
 
@DRJ: Some good ideas but I was already feeling as if we were hijacking DH's thread here. Can we either find a good existing thread and multi-quote this all over there or just start a new one?

Regarding the properties of supply and demand, I'm wondering how we'd establish the growth and reduction factors of that property. But I completely agree that something along those lines could be done. Much of what you're suggesting is a lot like what I was considering too. The spy/rogue mission you mentioned is an interesting one too. I like it when we can weave story into the game.

You really are going to need to learn to help us actually mod if you want to see all this come to pass though since there's already so many projects ahead! You certainly have the inventor's vision for it ;)
 
sry @DH

@Thunderbrd. Yeah once I begin to write I can't stop :)

Spoiler :
As much as I would like to mod writing code instead of only giving ideas
I can say I tried and got... frustrated. Code is ...cold for me. I need colours and poems and stuff. Numbers and signs like %=[/.} are giving me the feeling to be imprisoned somehow.
With words, everything is within reach asap, you know?
I am a dreamer, sorry it's the only thing I am good at, I guess.

I don't mind if only half of the ideas I produce see the day of light.
I've had it that some only did after a year or two...

So biggest respect you guys, keep on rocking, bend those prison bars and together we can break on through to the other side.

I don't want to be annoying with suggestions but I think it would be a shame not to make them when they come in mind and fit in with existing concepts or enhance them somehow. Thx for having patience with me.

Nevertheless I liked to help if you can tell me exactly what to do and where to repeat it. No problem, actually. Well, maybe a little. I'm a Hedonist after all! :shifty::twitch::yeah:
No really, I would do that gladly. After all I do deserve to serve some time for flooding you guys! :p
 
@DRJ: :lol:

@DH: Any chance we could make the Lawyer a support specialist for UNITCOMBAT_CRIMINAL units, giving them a source for XP? I'm not yet making them UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIANS but rather UNITCOMBAT_COMBATANT units but that really doesn't fit them. But if we take away the XP from generals it would weaken them too much until we have another suitable source.

I think we can finally utilize a GREAT_CIVILIAN now too - if for nothing else, a generic source for XP for UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN units. I'm also thinking we may want to give the basic civilian specialist a +1XP to civilian units as it is.


EDIT: Another issue emerges with the Unit Types pedia page. I know you asked about this earlier, but yes, it would be good if all Units defined as being part of a given category by their Sub-Combat types would be included in the Units listed under a given type. Something to address at some point.

EDIT: The sub combat display seems to be breaking down the pedia unit page. I'd ask AIAndy for any help with any confusion that the Vector method being used on those tags is creating. It's definitely a different cat to work with than Array tags. How it should be derived in python programming is far beyond my understanding of python enough to be of much help there.
 
@DRJ: :lol:

@DH: Any chance we could make the Lawyer a support specialist for UNITCOMBAT_CRIMINAL units, giving them a source for XP? I'm not yet making them UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIANS but rather UNITCOMBAT_COMBATANT units but that really doesn't fit them. But if we take away the XP from generals it would weaken them too much until we have another suitable source.

I think we can finally utilize a GREAT_CIVILIAN now too - if for nothing else, a generic source for XP for UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN units. I'm also thinking we may want to give the basic civilian specialist a +1XP to civilian units as it is.

I am afraid your post completely confused me. It may just be a lack of coffee on my side.

From mods
  • BLWO - diplomat line of units
  • Great Statesman mod - Great Statesman unit, Lawyer population specialist, Settled Great Statesman specialist
  • Lawyer mod - Lawyer unit
  • ???? - Judge and Sheriff units no idea. Also no idea what they are going to be used for. Mind you I always think Robin Hood when I hear Sheriff not US.:D

Lawyer the unit - is a special unit for counter corporations work. It also does reduce crime in the plot it is in.

Diplomat line of units - not implemented yet does diplomatic stuff with IP, barbarians and other nations.

Lawyer the population specialist - does not exist yet but from the Great Statesman mod can be assigned when you have buildings. Not much set up but should be anti-crime.

Great Statesman the unit - major diplomat!

Settled Great Statesman - can't remember at the moment.
 
Here is a unitai from another mod:

Spoiler :
Code:
		<UnitAIInfo>
			<Type>UNITAI_SLAVE</Type>
			<Description>UNITAI_SLAVE</Description>
		</UnitAIInfo>
		<UnitAIInfo>
			<Type>UNITAI_EMIGRANT</Type>
			<Description>UNITAI_EMIGRANT</Description>
		</UnitAIInfo>
		<UnitAIInfo>
			<Type>UNITAI_NAVIGATOR</Type>
			<Description>UNITAI_NAVIGATOR</Description>
		</UnitAIInfo>
		<UnitAIInfo>
			<Type>UNITAI_POLITICIAN</Type>
			<Description>UNITAI_POLITICIAN</Description>
		</UnitAIInfo>
		<UnitAIInfo>
			<Type>UNITAI_PEACEKEEPER</Type>
			<Description>UNITAI_PEACEKEEPER</Description>
		</UnitAIInfo>
 
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