Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Very similar to my own strategies. Hat tip back atcha! Glad you're enjoying both Size Matters and Fight or Flight and happy to see this mod mod adds another layer of fun to it.
Dangerous Hunting - Epic animal fights!
- Thread starter Rwn
- Start date
Very similar to my own strategies. Hat tip back atcha! Glad you're enjoying both Size Matters and Fight or Flight and happy to see this mod mod adds another layer of fun to it.
Glad you enjoy it!
A little advice, you'd better use Stonethrowers rather than Brutes even if they're a bit more expensive since Brutes have a penalty against animals while Stonethrowers have a small bonus (and a first strike)
Well, until you get Chasers, which are better than both against animals.You can learn about this kind of stuff by pressing Ctrl or Alt or Shift when hovering over a unit.
Updated the modmod and the first post.
Along the main changes:
- Renamed the modmod Dangerous Animals. Because it's not just about hunting afterall
- New Trophy Hunter building that "takes" some of the bonus of the Master Hunter
- Kill rewards (as well as butchery/animal combat/etc.) have been completely changed and defined for each animal, it's no longer just x5 compared to core.
- Hunters are now camouflaged and can detect camouflaged (scouting units also can). But so do a number of animals!
- Tracker now requires Games, a bit futher in the tree (was requiring Tracking).
- A few other small tweaks/bugfixes that I forgot about.
I now consider this modmod complete, meaning I don't think I'll add new things (except balancing/bugfixing if needed).
Enjoy!
Along the main changes:
- Renamed the modmod Dangerous Animals. Because it's not just about hunting afterall
- New Trophy Hunter building that "takes" some of the bonus of the Master Hunter
- Kill rewards (as well as butchery/animal combat/etc.) have been completely changed and defined for each animal, it's no longer just x5 compared to core.
- Hunters are now camouflaged and can detect camouflaged (scouting units also can). But so do a number of animals!
- Tracker now requires Games, a bit futher in the tree (was requiring Tracking).
- A few other small tweaks/bugfixes that I forgot about.
I now consider this modmod complete, meaning I don't think I'll add new things (except balancing/bugfixing if needed).
Enjoy!
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Glad you enjoy it!
A little advice, you'd better use Stonethrowers rather than Brutes even if they're a bit more expensive since Brutes have a penalty against animals while Stonethrowers have a small bonus (and a first strike)
You can learn about this kind of stuff by pressing Ctrl or Alt or Shift when hovering over a unit.
A cross stack of stonethrowers and brutes is good too... the brutes are actually capable of facing neanderthals effectively if merged - and they're cheap enough to build enough to do so.
You can only merge 3 of them in that era to a total of 1.5
So they will likely need to defend a hill+forest/caves to win against a neanderthal, but yeah build 9 of them and they can probably challenge a neander that has no terrain bonuses.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
They also have a hefty anti-barb % that I believe makes them equal to a neander at that point. At least gives them a fighting chance. Combine that with the slightest terrain modifier when defending or additional anti-barb promo or anti-melee promo and it usually means they win. If the stone thrower with them gets good enough at withdrawing, he can usually weaken the beast before the brutes go in to attack and can often mean a win offensively as well, which is quite useful at getting those early goody huts being guarded by a tough neanderthal.
(Note: all this only works on BOTH Fight or Flight AND Size Matters.)
(Note: all this only works on BOTH Fight or Flight AND Size Matters.)
I think the balance of the earliest units have been struck nicely. If I were to nitpick I would perhaps give brutes +25% vs non-animal barbs, and the neanders 25% vs melee to make the neanders stronger against clubmen & spiked clubmen. Stone axemen and atl atlist should be the real neander slayers. ^^
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The Tracking tech was added in for the Tracker unit
I felt it was too close to Persistence Hunting (in fact it only requires PH) so as soon as you get the Master Hunter the Chasers are obsolete. I wanted Chasers to stay around a bit longer, Games seemed a reasonable place in the tech tree to put them (now I think about it, it might be worth putting the Trophy Hunter there also, would be fitting. Also I forgot to put the Master Tracker there).
Tracking still is rather useful, you get to make Paths and build Scouts with it (while making Games a more interesting tech).
(moving here from Tech tree picture thread)
They are far from useless, they have a free Hunter Sight 1 promo and easily get Hunter Sight 2, so they can see far around the city to spot incoming animals and help chasers avoid being surprised by wandering animals!
But they are clearly not designed for combat (except maybe against weak animals) and by the time you get them, enough animals have spawned so that looking for goody huts is no longer really an option, at least until you are able to reliably dispatch animals (Master Tracker or much later with Hunters).
They are far from useless, they have a free Hunter Sight 1 promo and easily get Hunter Sight 2, so they can see far around the city to spot incoming animals and help chasers avoid being surprised by wandering animals!
But they are clearly not designed for combat (except maybe against weak animals) and by the time you get them, enough animals have spawned so that looking for goody huts is no longer really an option, at least until you are able to reliably dispatch animals (Master Tracker or much later with Hunters).
Oh well, you seem to have thought things trough, but I think many would prefer it if scouts could move more freely around the map. If you make them start withdrawal on 70% ↑ health and a withdrawal chance of 20% ↑ they would escape from anything stronger than pigeons and thus be worthless for hunting but good for exploration.
Chasers are better than that (they withdraw under 100% health with a base chance of 40% and are invisible except to some animals) and they are far from surviving every encounter
Part of the idea of this modmod is also to prevent from being able to explore far too early, the animals are keeping you in the vicinity of your city until you are slowly able to overcome them. It's actually not that bad to be able to find untouched goody huts later on because you were the first to fend off dangerous animals in the way (though to be honest you and AI civs are able to pick most of the closest ones in the first ~50 turns, before there are too many animals).
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well... the intention of Recon vs Hunters is Defensive Withdrawal strength vs Offensive Pursuit strength. Hunter units shouldn't be all that good at withdrawal while recon should be able to survive without assistance albeit completely incapable of doing anything but snooping. If a player sends out solo recons to see what they can, why shouldn't they be able to have a good shot of getting a long ways out... they aren't out there to do anything but that unless they are accompanying a hunter or other party and providing a diversion against the first attack against the stack.
Changing this approach is kinda rough but if you want to make things more dangerous for scouts, you can always take away some of their natural bonuses against animals. And keep in mind that big cats and bears are damned good at pursuit so scouts still need to avoid the hell out of them or suffer certain death. And scouts can't break their way into goody huts that have a barb guarding them so later goodies won't be completely muted by survivable scouts.
Again, at some point I'd like to make it so that the unit must carry back the kill rewards (food and production) to the city to keep most early scouting limited without some sacrifice. I'd also like to make it so that a unit must return to the nation to report on what it has explored (meaning each unit would have its own tracked fog of war reveal and the player level fog of war we have would only be updated to units that have returned home.) If this is even possible without causing too great a memory issue anyhow.
Changing this approach is kinda rough but if you want to make things more dangerous for scouts, you can always take away some of their natural bonuses against animals. And keep in mind that big cats and bears are damned good at pursuit so scouts still need to avoid the hell out of them or suffer certain death. And scouts can't break their way into goody huts that have a barb guarding them so later goodies won't be completely muted by survivable scouts.
Again, at some point I'd like to make it so that the unit must carry back the kill rewards (food and production) to the city to keep most early scouting limited without some sacrifice. I'd also like to make it so that a unit must return to the nation to report on what it has explored (meaning each unit would have its own tracked fog of war reveal and the player level fog of war we have would only be updated to units that have returned home.) If this is even possible without causing too great a memory issue anyhow.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The main problem with this is that the human player will remember what is out there because they have seen it. The only way to fix that is to have terrain change in some way if it is not reported due to the unit exploring the area dieing. I have seen this is in the board game "In Search of The Source of the Nile". Where the terrain is drawn as you progress but if you don't report it back to Europe it is wiped off the map. If other explorers cross your path that plot stays until they report it or die before reporting it. Once reported it is set in stone so to speak.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'm sure the human player's ability to remember will be somewhat limited. However, it would be truly cool if it was coupled with ongoing earth changes as many have clamored for taking place throughout the prehistoric era.
I'm actually warming up to that idea quite a bit - so what if some players only cities are destroyed and a nomad is shoved off to the nearest land space when the first cities are often flooded out. With a nomadic start taking place, it just adds even more to the whole affair.
But then... will probably be decades of further development so we're probably overthinking things here.
I'm actually warming up to that idea quite a bit - so what if some players only cities are destroyed and a nomad is shoved off to the nearest land space when the first cities are often flooded out. With a nomadic start taking place, it just adds even more to the whole affair.
But then... will probably be decades of further development so we're probably overthinking things here.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I play 3-4 games at a time. I can remember the terrain even weeks after I have not played a particular game.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Some will be better than others of course.
Hmm... your ability to recall geolocational specifics like that may be linked to dislexia perhaps. That's pretty impressive really. I can remember general locations of coastlines and large obvious features but not much in terms of specifics. I'm often lost for a moment when the map shifts to a new unit.
Hmm... your ability to recall geolocational specifics like that may be linked to dislexia perhaps. That's pretty impressive really. I can remember general locations of coastlines and large obvious features but not much in terms of specifics. I'm often lost for a moment when the map shifts to a new unit.
OK, after some thought I've given the same withdrawal capabilities to Scouts as to Chasers They won't be as good in combat because they have no first strike, a lower bonus against animals and can't attack, but they can see further.
That said, as you point out, some animals have a Pursuit ability, so even with this capability I'm not sure a scout can easily fend off wandering predators... But that's up to the player to use its sight to avoid them
I've updated the modmod with the following changes:
- Master Tracker and Trophy Hunter now require Games
- Wanderer no longer has Hunting Sight 1
- Improved withdrawal capabilities of Scout and Explorer
They won't be as good in combat because they have no first strike, a lower bonus against animals and can't attack, but they can see further.That said, as you point out, some animals have a Pursuit ability, so even with this capability I'm not sure a scout can easily fend off wandering predators... But that's up to the player to use its sight to avoid them
I've updated the modmod with the following changes:
- Master Tracker and Trophy Hunter now require Games
- Wanderer no longer has Hunting Sight 1
- Improved withdrawal capabilities of Scout and Explorer
