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Darius I - King of the World

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by sman1975, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Chrisy15

    Chrisy15 Flower, Beautiful

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    I'm honestly curious as to how this project came about. What inspired this design, and what compelled a competent Lua scripter to compose an entirely database mod on behalf on its author despite the inherent difficulties of a liason-based development process and the underutilisation of the author's coding abilities on a release that could undeniably have been produced by the designer with little education? What motivated the designer to request this Civ be produced despite it being so alien to contemporary mods and vanilla Civs? Why are the assets taken from such a wide variety of sources when more fitting artwork already existed in the base game, and if the decision were made to avoid overlap with vanilla Persia why does the design not also abide by this desire to remain distinct? I can't say I have any strong emotion towards the Civ, but I'd be interested to hear the rationale behind its creation according to its two authors.
     
  2. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    "Competent Lua scripter...?" Clearly, you're not familiar with my work... :lol:

    Whither Grand Colossal Persia? Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): I was asked to....

    I can't speak very much about the request for this mod, but I can tell you why I decided to build it. It appears to me that the requestor for this mod(Steam user @ Adam Jensen 007) wanted a custom civ to participate in some kind of Deity-level AI deathmatch games (additional info: ). Adam will have to add the deeper background as to why such a mod is needed.

    I know nothing about such things, and care even less. The content inside the mod was of less importance to me than the process of actually building it was.

    I get requests to build mods all the time. I generally don't accept most of them, as I simply don't have the time. But this case was a little different. Some background:

    About 3 months ago, I took a break from modding. My "World at War" scenario for WW2 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1689346337) had just about broke me. It was, however, a pretty good outcome for my real project, the "Scenario Management Engine (SME)" - a library of tools that allows you to build a brand new, custom scenario by filling in just a handful of information. This data-driven design allows you to build something almost as powerful as a R.E.D. scenario in a couple of hours time - once familiar with the engine.

    At any rate, after a few months of rest, I decided to come back to modding, with a list of projects I plan to work on. About this same time, I received the request for an OP Persian mod from @ Adam Jensen 007. The mod looked fairly straightforward, and I felt like I needed a "starter project" to re-familiarize myself with the game's database schemas, interrelationships, etc. Seemed like something I could use to get back up to speed on the data side of the game.

    Creating a custom civ (minus the artwork) usually requires only a few hours. I think I have about 4 hours of total development time invested in Grand Colossal Persia. About 2 more in building the Steam portion (getting screenshots, writing the Description, etc.). Getting the 16 new units models reskinned, recolored, and working is often beyond a starter modder's capability. Customizing attack animations is way beyond. It requires much more knowledge than simply XML/SQL/Civ5 SDK. It involves using Photoship/Gimp2, SQLiteSpy, Agent Ransak for research, IndiestoneMaterialMaker, etc. To many modders, especially beginners, this is just not possible.

    In an attempt to improved the immersive qualities of the gaming experience, more work was required than simply working trying to get Danrell's models up and running. Fortunately, I've done a lot of this in the past, so it wasn't very time consuming for me.

    You are definitely correct that collaborating the specs of the civ took time. It generally does in all software development timelines. Fortunately, while I was waiting on input from Adam, I was working on the update to several of my "World at War" mods, planning to release a broad update in the next few days. Mostly cleaning up inconsistencies within the mods and how they interact with other mods in the family. And adding about 38 new units (16 Chinese, 10 Dutch, 8 Japanese, and a few others ) to the "Unique Units" companion mod.

    And despite the OP nature of this mod, I do plan on releasing a "balanced" version once this mod goes from BETA to Stable. Why? Well, many, many modders have released custom civs that overlap the game's normal civs. And why not? We mod because there's something in the game that missing, broken, wrong, needs improving, etc. We all feel like we can add some enjoyment to the game for a select number of players who might be interested in the content. If it weren't for modders (especially @thecrazyscot), I would have given up on Civ5 in the first couple of weeks of playing. Discovering the crazy scotsman's Omnibus mod led me to a 3 year love affair with a game I think (with all its flaws) is awesome! Contributing even my little bit to the total content available in support of this game makes me quite happy! :)

    Additionally, at the very beginning, I realized the main value of building this mod was not for the purposes of adding a ridiculously OP Persian civ. I saw the potential in converting the civ to a viable alternative Persian Civ to players interested in such a gaming experience, but one different to the game's "normal" Persian civ. And getting good feedback from players of that mod might help me fill a void for players what like Persia, but aren't 100% happy with the game's version of that civ.

    In the case for a normal version of GCP - the mod will add 14 reskinned units, giving a player a much richer, immersive gaming experience. Your armies throughout the Tech Tree will look much more Persian. The 2 new units have a Persian look and feel as well. Heck, even their custom promotion is named after Zoroastrian eschatological principles. Add to that the beautiful artwork from talented modders like Hierarchy Artanis and yourself (all used in compliance with the Modiquette), the mod itself is simply beautiful, and definitely will add a quality gaming experience to a player interested in a deeper Persian game.


    So, Bottom Line At Bottom (BLAB): I created the custom civ at a request of a player. It required a handful of hours, and provided me a much-needed refresher into the databases the game uses. It allowed me to give a little back to the wonderful community that has given quite a bit to me. It's been a helpful experience to me, and I hope that anyone really interested in a Persian-focused gaming experience will enjoy it as well!

    :)
     
  3. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    Sample National Promotions - Perhaps a combination of stat buffs from here could help OP Persia become more OP...?

    upload_2019-9-12_5-32-24.jpeg upload_2019-9-12_5-32-42.jpeg upload_2019-9-12_5-32-55.jpeg


    Screenshots of the RG Arty unit:

    upload_2019-9-12_8-56-17.jpeg upload_2019-9-12_8-56-28.jpeg upload_2019-9-12_8-56-43.jpeg

    Testing done on V2.b. Awaiting input on which ranged units get the Logistics Promotion and if we're going to use the National Promotion (and if so, what buffs to include).

    Also - I'm assuming the 'Monster Laser Artillery' upgrades to the 'Monster Railgun Artillery' unit. Let me know if this shouldn't be the case. Also, if it does upgrade, do we "obsolete" the unit (Monster Laser Arty) - so that it no longer appears in the City View UI?

    The MLA unit replaces the Rocket Artillery unit - which requires Aluminum. Should the MLA also require Aluminum? Or some other strategic resource?

    What about the MRA? What strategic resource does it require, if any?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  4. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    Thank you so much Sman
    -I realized that GCP lacks behind Science, Food and Production. Even against normal deity AI i was still 4 techs behind modern era! (Yes I am almost done with rationalism and finished tradition)
    -National Promotions: Can you combine United Kingdom and Germany? we can call: Loyalty to King Darius. If you cannot combine, please use Germany is fine. Just please change the name I don't like "Hail" b/c Germany WWII were the bad guys so ya. If you cannot change it we can still to Great Britain.
    -Is it still possible to add a shrine/monument replacement: we call it Nashe Rostam (historically a place where all Persian kings died) you can just edit the stats from there like please keep stats
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=312089017
    Unique Building: Gaming Shrine. Adds +10 to Food and Production yields per tile, +20 to Gold, and +50 to Science, Faith, and Culture. (we can use this for later OP mods you see)
    -Scientific Paradise (change bonus): +150 Happiness, +200 Science +100 Culture +100 Gold +50 Production +50 Food
    -I am wondering if you could please replace regular Artillery with Monster Laser Artillery is that possible? No aluminum required
    -I am wondering if you could please Monster Rail Gun Artillery with Rocket Artillery is that possible? Only Aluminum
    We can make Monster Laser Artillery available so not obselete just upgrade in case no aluminum available.
    -Can we have Giant death robot available sooner like maybe at Research Labs
    -I am not sure about Rostam so u want me to load a game where GCP is the only Civ in the game? Cause in a regular game

    we can make a non-op version I can tell you that now if you like so that we finish this mod and move to other ones. Won't take long we will keep some bonuses make them weaker and don't include other ones.
    Thank you so much

    LOL: I cannot wait for the other mod I told you about hahaha
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  5. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    Just to make sure: the Scientific Paradise is a normal building, and not a wonder? Means there can be multiple copies per empire/1 per city?

    This pushes the mod dramatically outside of my comfort zone, well-beyond OP and deep into game-breaking territory. I've worked very hard to produce quality mods that try to add to the authenticity of the game, especially in historical contexts. Making mods like these take me not only to square one, but to an even farther point in the opposite direction of where I want to go. If I had known what the mod looks like now at the beginning of the project, I would not have built it in the first place.

    I'm already getting taunts from other modders about the frivolousness of this mod, even from some friends of mine on the Workshop. I'll make the changes, but the mod must come off my Workshop. I'll move it to an alternate Steam account of mine.

    I'll also start working on the "normal" version of the mod, one that's only slightly OP, as I think it has the potential to deliver a solid gaming experience for someone wanting to play a legitimate Persian Civ. I'll also publish that in an alternate account. Things like these are too distracting from my main interests in modding these days, which is to get my "World at War" family of mods to their next level.
     
  6. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    ok fine let's not make it too op then. You are right. Though I want a better Science yield b/c On deity against non-op I am behind lol u can test it and see.
    Let's do this then: In the mod you already have replaced Satrap court building with Scientific Paradise. Keep the +20 bonuses everything same (20 Science, 20 Culture, 20 Gold and 20 happiness but please add +5 food and +7 Production) My reason: cities are not growing well
    National Buffs we can forget then but please keep logistics and +1 range
    -I am wondering if you could please replace regular Artillery with Monster Laser Artillery is that possible? No aluminum required
    -I am wondering if you could please Monster Rail Gun Artillery with Rocket Artillery is that possible? Only Aluminum
    We can make Monster Laser Artillery available so not obselete just upgrade in case no aluminum available.
    -Can we have Giant death robot available sooner like maybe at Research Labs
    -I am not sure about Rostam so u want me to load a game where GCP is the only Civ in the game?

    Normal Version: slightly op
     
  7. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    Non-Op version: +1 movement for all ranged units and +15% combat strength when at war (for ranged and melee)
    -Elite Immortal: 14 combat strength upgrades into pikeman and then musketman
    -Satrap court: +4 happiness, +5 Gold and +4 Science +4 culture
    -can I still have Toopchi if possible? +1 range on it
    -maybe a much weaker version of laser artillary and rail gun artillary same stats as base game but +1 range. So same stats as rocket artillery and artillary but just +1 range?
    That's it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  8. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    Here are my reasons:
    -I wanted an 8 player game against other OP civs (Reapers and Gabe , brazil times 10). I wanted to have some fun. I wanted a Game where we have like battle of gods basically. Units become quikcly obsolete and I can bribe the AIs go to war with each other. Though Science wise, production and foodwise not so OP even against deity AI. In modern era with full rationalism and tradition against deity AI I was 3-4 techs behind though I will surpass them soon. Against OP AI not so overpowered.
    -Many of the bonuses will be used for other Civs though slightly weaker. There will be a non-op version of this mod
    -I won't request any other massively OP mods if it upsets anyone maybe only somewhat OP civs cause I just enjoy smashing deity AI hahaha
    -But I do want S-man to spread out some of the bonuses if possible across some Future Civs we can have. This way he won't have to spend hours editing just cute and paste will take a few minutes (see Godfather I am reusing the Persia stuff)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  9. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    Here's what I'd recommend:

    - Keep the MLA as a replacement for Rocket Arty, but drop the Aluminum requirement (it won't obsolete). Replacing 1930's Artillery units with 2025 laser weapons technology just seems wrong to me. The MLA will upgrade to the MRA.

    - Add the MRA as a new unit, make the prereq Tech Particle Phyics, and require Uranium to build - this gives a long ranged alternative to players who hate the GDR, which is primarily a melee unit, but still limits unit spawn with ultra-scarce Uranium.

    - I don't think the GDR prereq tech should change - the working assumption in the unit's design is that it cannot be powered with today's tech - energy density is simply too low. It would require cheap, near-room-temperature fusion to power such a contraption. I think the reasoning is valid. Moving it a column to the left on the tech tree seems to be fielding the unit 25-50 years before it should.

    - Add a decent National Promotion: +10% strength, defensive strength, and ranged defensive strength. +10% strength when adjacent to friendly unit. It won't break the game if your civ's army is attacking other civ's army, but gives a bit of an edge is you have a single unit attacking another single unit.

    - Add a new Unique Building: Nashe Rostam. Adds +10 to Food and Production yields per tile, +20 to Gold, and +50 to Science, Faith, and Culture.

    - Adjust the Sci. Paradise to add +5 food and +7 production

    *************************************************

    The normal version will still have most of these units/buildings/traits, but with a much smaller buff: Where it's 20 in OP, it will 1-2 in normal, or dropped entirely.

    *************************************************

    As far as future Civs, when this mod is done, I'll work on the normal version next. I expect that to take about 2 hours to finish. After that, I need to get back to my "WAW" mod family. I'm falling behind my schedule, so I'm anxious to get those updated. In about a week or so after that, we can perhaps look at another OP Civ. Hopefully, that can give players enough time with the Persian Civ to make any recommendations they might want for gaming in such a context. Which might impact the design of later OP Civs.

    And, I have to tell you, it doesn't take me much time at all to finish code. What is taking time is that the requirements keep changing. You've made many suggestions, then changed those suggestions, often many times. This is what slows things down. Once I get a requirement, I build a solution to meet those requirements. If the requirement then changes, I need to redesign the mod, then rework things that were already completed. Most people may not realize, but it's much easier to program new code, than it is to change existing code. That's where errors creep in - like the one with the Toopchi.

    It would be much more helpful for me, and much quicker too, if the requirements are 100% finished before I write a line of code. We can always change things later, but the fewer the changes, the more reliable the mod will be.
     
  10. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    You are right . I won't make any changes anymore. You can delete : Nashe Rostam. Adds +10 to Food and Production yields per tile, +20 to Gold, and +50 to Science, Faith, and Culture. if you feel it is too much. I don't want you to do something you don't want. If you feel embarrassed don't do it. Don't change it just delete it.
    For Non-op please keep toopchi though pretty please with some sugar?:D
    Honestly, from now on I post here and then we BOTH agree on something before you start working? How about that? :king: I feel like I should have been more organized
    You know what? You are very nice and always ask me what I want. So This time I ask what is it you want for the X Civilization we talked about
    What I feel: this Civ needs buffs for diplotmatic victory, gold and city states.
    Feel free to suggest stuff
     
  11. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    It's not too much of a problem, I'm just pointing out that every hour you spend in planning the requirements is probably a couple of hours I save in building it. The first mod is always the toughest, but now you probably have a better idea of the kinds of data I need for units, buildings, etc.

    All the units will stay in both mods - why go to the trouble of building them and then taking them back out. I'll nerf the stats to where they're "almost" normal. The OP buffs will definitely remain in the OP version - otherwise, why bother, eh? :)

    As far as GF mod is concerned: I see 2 mods - one for Vito (production heavy) and another for Michael (gold heavy). The thing I'll need the most to build it? Quotes from the movies that I can use in the Diplomatic dialogs. So, start collecting those, if you'd really like to help.

    Unfortunately, I'm out of time for now. May be back online later. I think I have enough to finish both mods, but will leave both with a "BETA" rating. It helps players know that changes are still happening in the mod they're playing. Need about 2 hours to finish them both. Should have it by tomorrow at the latest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  12. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    Okay mate I can help may I start don't start working on it until we both agree. You are right I need to plan better
    So for now Please don't start working on it let's put some ideas here. You can use same quotes for both
    When making a declaration of friendship: “Friendship is everything. Friendship is more than talent. It is more than the government. It is almost the equal of family.- Don Corleone”
    when denouncing: “A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man.”
    When declare war: “Revenge is a dish that tastes best when served cold.” Mario Puzo, The Godfather
    When trading for luxury or items "I will make you an offer you cannot refuse!"
    when you denounce him: "“Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.”
    Intro upon meeting: "I am Godfather Don Corleone....Behind every successful fortune there is a crime.”
    When visiting him any time: "Leave the gun, take the cannoli" LOOOOOOL
    Selecting him as Host of World Congress "The Don never forgets your act of kindness"

    for copy right maybe put them into quotes i guess?
    Brando:
    Ability: Sicilian Connection or Mafia Globalization or whatever you like: +15% Production when building wonders (you can use Egypt here) and 15% Production when building ranged units. (I think this a little op but not a lot)
    Unique stuff: (replace name of Nashe Roostam which I told you for Persia) so we replace shrine/monument. I cannot think of a name to be honest: +2 Food +2 Faith +2 Culture +2 Science.
    Unique unit: we can use some of your World at war stuff and have a promotion on it. LOL or we can use the monster laser artillery again:confused:


    -----------------------------------
    Micheal I agree Gold but perhaps a bit more cause Gold alone is not enough to win
    Ability: I am the boss of all bosses: Alexander's ability (Influence with City-States degrades at half the normal rate and recovers at double the normal rate, units can pass through city states without penalty) + Siam's ability (Food, Culture and faith city states increased by 50%)
    New added: +20% Gold from Markets, Banks and Stock exchanges
    Building: Immobiliare (You can use the icon for Satrap court the question is how op we both want to go right? Do we want to have an easy time on deity or struggle?) We may just call it Immobiliare: +5 Gold, 25% Gold Generation +4 Happiness +4 Science and +4 Culture
    Units: 1) You can reuse Monster Laser Artillary animation. We can call it the "Mob's finest Artillery or something" same combat strength as regular artillery but plus +1 range
    I think this is somewhat Op but not too much. Deity will still be a challenge.
    2) Body Guards: You can place them where Rostam was or any infantry you like. Starts with a promotion
    Feel free to add or remove mate. I don't think I need to add more. What do you think? Think your friends will be happy as well?
    Best wishes
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  13. Civ fan6 2018

    Civ fan6 2018 Chieftain

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    I only added Brando and did not add anything new to Michael (except the name Immobiliare to make it sound more movie like). Godfather 2 quotes are not as good as Godfather 1 so maybe we use the same quotes
    You can re-use some of your other mods for these Godfather stuff
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  14. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    New version (V3) uploaded. Summary of changes:

    - Added the Monster RailGun Artillery unit: Stats 70 Combat Strength 120 Ranged Strength, available at Particle Physics

    - Added the Naqsh-e Rostam building, a massively OP Monument replacement

    - Added the National Promotion for all Land Units, "Atashi Vahram"

    - Fixed Toopchi building issue, upgrade problems

    - Adjusted Monster Laser Artillery stats: now has 80 Combat strength 100 Ranged strength

    - Fix Pikeman Goody Hut upgrade

    - Fixed various other typo, etc. errors

    *****************************************************************************************************

    I believe this version (V3) is the proper BETA/starting point the mod should have been released at. I've had time to test it, and believe it to be working properly. One thing I'm not 100% sure of is how it performs in the late game, especially under Epic/Marathon speeds coupled with Large/Huge maps. When abusing the yield balances so much, there is a small but not impossible change of overflows/crashes. Only our players can tells us if this is a problem or not. I've ran a few "autopilot" games using LiveTuner at these settings (Marathon + Huge), but didn't encounter any problems. But, it's not quite the same as human players in the mix. Time will tell.

    My plan is to let this mod sit for about a week. Based on player feedback, I'll make any fixes, appropriate suggestions, etc., to the next version (V4) and then call it "STABLE." Once we have a stable version of GCP, I'll quickly build/release the "normal" version.
     
  15. sman1975

    sman1975 King

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    Here is my initial (draft) version of the Civ design (please note: the rationale for including above-average Building/Unit buffs is because the Trait itself is kind of lame - intentionally so). All the artwork remains the same, but I'm not opposed to changing the Civ's Icon and Background colors to provide some differentiation from the new and the old GCP mod.

    I'll update this post as changes to the overall design change. This post will represent the "current" version of the normal mod's design.

    *****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
    Civ: Triumphant Persia

    Leader: King Darius I

    Trait: Fall of Babylon: +1 movement for all ranged units

    Buildings
    - UB1: Satrap's Court. Replaces Bank. Adds +4 / 30% Gold. +1 Gold per outgoing trade route. +1 Happiness, Science, and Culture. Provides 1 Merchant Specialist slot
    - UB2: Royal Garden. Replaces Garden. Does not require River. +20% Great People generation. +1 Culture
    - UB3: Naqsh-e Rostam. Replaces Monument. Adds +1 Culture, Happiness, Faith, Food, Production, and Science. Gold Maintenance 3

    Units:
    - UU1: War Chariot – early, fast melee unit, available at the Wheel. Does NOT require Horses. Upgrades to Knight
    - UU2: Elite Immortal. Replaces Spearman. 14 combat strength. Heals fully when kills an enemy. Upgrades to Pikeman
    - UU3: Toopchi . Replaces Cannon. +1 range (now 3). Upgrades to Artillery
    - UU4: Rostam Soldier. Replaces Rifleman. 40 Combat strength and heals fully when it kills an enemy. Upgrades to Great War Infantry
    - UU5: Monster Laser Artillery. Replaces Rocket Artillery. +1 range (now 4 hexes), 66 ranged strength, combat strength: 50. Does not suffer a sight penalty. Upgrades to Monster Railgun Artillery
    - UU6: Clibanarii Modern Armor. Replaces Modern Armor. Receives the `Chiwad Puhl` Promotion. Requires Aluminum
    - UB7: Monster Railgun Artillery. Upgrade from the Monster Laser Artillery. Requires Uranium
    - UU8: Apocalypse Robot. Replaces Giant Death Robot. Receives the `Chiwad Puhl` Promotion. Carries up to 2 missiles. Requires Aluminum AND Uranium

    Promotions:
    - Chiwad Puhl: +10% strength vs. wounded units. +1 movement
    - Atashi Vahram: +5% strength, Defense, and defense against ranged attacks. +5% strength when adjacent to friendly units

    General changes:
    - Pikeman upgrades to Musketman
     
  16. Civ fan6 2018

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    Thank you so much by the way I played the Massively OP Persia the game was a lot of fun against other AIs. Great Library was gone on turn 5!!!!
    The massively op death match creates an extremely fast paced game where units become obsolete very quickly.
    Though I ended up losing to Gary Oak he has a warrior with a combat strength of over 800!
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=146317148
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1862397563 (810 strength warrior)
    I won't add him the next game but it was fun as reapers and Pc Master race we were neck and neck at an extremely fast paced game where wonder 1 turn and rapid war fare no time wasted producing units just going to war!
    -As for Color, don't worry about save time and keep the same we can always update it later. I want you to work on other mods cause you fall behind your schedule
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  17. Civ fan6 2018

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    With you permission I think Michael Corleone should get another small boost because on immortal and deity it is hard to become friends with city states.we can say add another 20% Gold from markets, banks and stock exchange or should we go with the 2 spies?
    See Diplomatic Victory is harder then most victories (b/c we finish space ship parts by then and domination). I want to make Micheal excel at diplomatic victory yet not too op but a somewhat doable diplomatic victory even on deity and immortal.
    So Michael's Ability will be: I am the boss of all bosses: Alexander's ability (Influence with City-States degrades at half the normal rate and recovers at double the normal rate, units can pass through city states without penalty) + Siam's ability (Food, Culture and faith city states increased by 50%) + 20% Gold from Markets, Banks and Stock exchanges?
     

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