Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

[need my speed]

I'm conflicted on whether to be happy or sad that the Infinite Indian Aqueduct is gone.

On one hand it was a graphical bug that was semi-annoying.
On the other it was probably the most iconic bug in DoC and always made me mentally giggle when I saw it.

*insert xkcd: Workflow*

You ask, we deliver:


( https://xkcd.com/1172/ )

 

[Panopticon]

Not sure where else to ask... How should Russia repel Mongols? I'm intrigued by Russia, but thinking about Mongols really annoys me. Pity Keshiks are light cavalry rather than heavy.

 

[FIRST FIRE]

I remember one guys who have notice that shuold there a civic or wonder to buff the citizen of specialist .And

In the past few months I've realized the true power of many civics I previously thought underpowered or overpowered. Vassalage allows massive armies, citizenship's balanced compared to the others of it's slot and fills the role of a civic for small or developing civs, Elective is amazing for civs that are having trouble economically, and Despotism has an absurdly powerful effect but so does nearly every other civic in its slot, Isolationism boosts the power of nations with a massive amount of cities, and Republic is amazing long term if you invest in settling specialists.

But I'm still having trouble figuring out how Republic is better than Despotism for Greece and Rome's UHVs. In my experience they don't really get that much value from buying mercenaries as they're so focused on building science for the Tech goals, and while settling specialists is strong for Rome, the Greek UHV neither lasts long enough nor requires strong enough periphery or core cities for the settling specialists to be of much use. It's even weirder to consider that the best use of Republic is switching to it from Despotism after completing the empire, the opposite of history.

What am I missing? Is there some strategy I haven't thought of? Am I not running enough specialists? Have I just underestimated the strength of some aspect of its effect?

I remember one guys who have gave a opinion that shuold there be a civic or wonder to buff the citizen of specialist .Should it be a good idea that make Citizenship civic to buff the citizen specialist with 1?So that you can use 1 to exchange 2 with Republic and Citizenship,especially when you don't have the engineer plot in the early classical age.

 

[FIRST FIRE]

About the central planing ,I found that tech of it is much later than the machine tool and engine,so even though I play the as russia or india ,but I would finish factory and coal plant in almost my cities before i get the tech of communist.So how you who played the communist civic think about this problem?

 

[1SDANi]

I remember one guys who have notice that shuold there a civic or wonder to buff the citizen of specialist .And

I remember one guys who have gave a opinion that shuold there be a civic or wonder to buff the citizen of specialist .Should it be a good idea that make Citizenship civic to buff the citizen specialist with 1?So that you can use 1 to exchange 2 with Republic and Citizenship,especially when you don't have the engineer plot in the early classical age.

So basically infinite GPP-less Engineer specialist slots? I'm not too sure that's a good idea.

 

[Enyavar]

Not sure where else to ask... How should Russia repel Mongols? I'm intrigued by Russia, but thinking about Mongols really annoys me. Pity Keshiks are light cavalry rather than heavy.

Don't explore east of Ural until 1500, but ready your settlers and workers in that time. No contact, no conqueror event. It works really fine usually, unless Korean explorers travel to you and Korea vassalizes while still in contact with you.

About the central planing ,I found that tech of it is much later than the machine tool and engine,so even though I play the as russia or india ,but I would finish factory and coal plant in almost my cities before i get the tech of communist.So how you who played the communist civic think about this problem?

What I think? It is super annoying!!
As it is, there is little incentive to adopt that civic - unless you deliberately wait with building factories till then. Also, I never build coal plants if I can avoid it, because they ruin the health of my cities. Instead, I wait for clean energy which is (for whatever reason) not sponsored by CP. That's annoying again, since socialist/communist/despotic planners love their monumental dam projects just fine, whether in egypt, central asia or china.

In my opinion, workshops and watermills are also underpowered. I love my few desert watermills, and build workshops where I can't get decent hammers from hills or plains but tbh , that means 5 workshops and 5 watermills in my empire, vs. 50 towns, 20 windmills and 25 farms, or smth. like that.

 

[1SDANi]

Don't explore east of Ural until 1500, but ready your settlers and workers in that time. No contact, no conqueror event. It works really fine usually, unless Korean explorers travel to you and Korea vassalizes while still in contact with you.


What I think? It is super annoying!!
As it is, there is little incentive to adopt that civic - unless you deliberately wait with building factories till then. Also, I never build coal plants if I can avoid it, because they ruin the health of my cities. Instead, I wait for clean energy which is (for whatever reason) not sponsored by CP. That's annoying again, since socialist/communist/despotic planners love their monumental dam projects just fine, whether in egypt, central asia or china.

In my opinion, workshops and watermills are also underpowered. I love my few desert watermills, and build workshops where I can't get decent hammers from hills or plains but tbh , that means 5 workshops and 5 watermills in my empire, vs. 50 towns, 20 windmills and 25 farms, or smth. like that.

In general clean power is just too good too early. No idea how to incentivize more historical reliance on fossil fuels though.

 

[Leoreth]

Now that is a post to summon Imp. Knoedel if there ever was one.

 

[hnrysml]

With the new ability to sack and spare cities, it would be good if there was either an event, or a small chance that the outcome you want to happen doesn't. An army that has captured a city hasn't historically always "spared" it even if commanded to do so

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

With the new ability to sack and spare cities, it would be good if there was either an event, or a small chance that the outcome you want to happen doesn't. An army that has captured a city hasn't historically always "spared" it even if commanded to do so

That seems like it would just be frustrating, though. Armies also don't always go where they're told, or attack when told to. Labour forces don't always work when told to. Infrastructure projects don't always work. Imagine building an airport in your capital as, say, Prussia, and not having any hammers go towards it for 15 turns. It's a level of simulation beyond what the rest of the game does.

 

[Publicola]

That seems like it would just be frustrating, though.

Seconded. It reminds me of the proposal to add 'dark ages' (comparable to the current golden ages). Mechanics that exist solely to penalize players and throw obstacles in their path tend to be anti-fun. (Honestly, I have no idea how Rhye managed to design a stringent stability system that was still somehow enjoyable to play with).

 

[ozqar]

That's annoying again, since socialist/communist/despotic planners love their monumental dam projects just fine, whether in egypt, central asia or china.

tru dat

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah. The idea that sparing costs money (besides balance) also represents the idea that you have to pay off your troops so they don't go pillaging.

 

[Enyavar]

Now that is a post to summon Imp. Knoedel if there ever was one.

ROFL, looks like that.

In general clean power is just too good too early. No idea how to incentivize more historical reliance on fossil fuels though.

The following would be a plan to do just that, without changes on civics or the tech tree.

Per a new mechanic, cities consume 1 power per inhabitant. Power that is locally produced but not consumed by city inhabitants, flows into a national pool, is divided by half, then equally distributed to cities that don't have enough power yet.
Buildings that require power, are giving only 50% output when the power level of the city is above 80%. Having less than 80% power means a blackout, these buidlings stop working.

A coal plant gives 5 power output, +5 per available coal or oil.
A hydro plant gives 5 power output, +2 per worked watermill of the city.
A solar plant gives 5 power output, +5 for every desert tile in the city BFC.
A nuclear plant gives 0 power output, +10 power per available uranium.
All plant buildings can never produce more than 20 power. There can, however, be several plants per city.
For some small change: Windmills produce 1 power output when worked, +1 after invention of renewable energies.

Itaipu dam is turned into a national wonder with 100 power output (seriously, we had Assuan, Itaipu, Hoover, Three Gorges... this is a national wonder. Could have national flavors.)
ITER reactor produces 200 power?

 

[Tigranes]

Unless I am not understanding something I think currently new city sacking system need to be fixed interface-wise and function-wise. So I started as Canada and captured Toronto and Moose Factory. Captured Moose Factory using different options and observed the following:

1. Message says "Take X gold and spare the city" -- but in reality you end up giving gold. Very confusing. It's better to say -- reward your troops with X gold to spare the city. Meaning ruler rewards booty hungry soldiers with his own money in order to prevent uncontrolled looting in the wake of city capture.
2. Sacking the city did not reduce buildings present in the city, only the religion left but even population remains the same. Got rewarded with some 50 gold -- would be nice to see how much I would get before sacking to make an informed decision, just like with sparing the city. Absolutely no advantage to spare the city currently.
3. Too many options. Once you capture the city 3 things can happen: razing, sacking, sparing. Absolutely no need for the vanila "install the governor". Sacking or sparing already installs the governor -- city becomes yours.
4. Razing city must have some economic AND military effects for the winner and looser. Razing unit could have regain 50% of their current strength using the supplies found in the city. Also occasionally refugees can be produced: unarmed (Worker) as POW for winner and armed (basic draft able unit) for looser symbolizing partisans/guerrilla warfare. This way winner might think twice.

As a side note Toronto had less building than Moose factory! What could have been the issue?

 

[Rodnok]

I didn't have any options when capturing a Holy City (Jerusalem as Ethiopia). This was default before (no razing of holy cities) but I guess there could be other options now (played 24 hours ago before the last git update).

Option "install the governor" seemed to me like the default middle way of dealing with a city. But I agree it could be reworded or possibly removed.

 

[Leoreth]

2. Sacking the city did not reduce buildings present in the city, only the religion left but even population remains the same. Got rewarded with some 50 gold -- would be nice to see how much I would get before sacking to make an informed decision, just like with sparing the city. Absolutely no advantage to spare the city currently.

In case you missed previous updates, buildings are now destroyed over time while the city is in unrest. So you do not see any immediate difference, but sparing has a significant advantage in the number of buildings saved.

 

[Panopticon]

Islam seems to spread very quickly through Orthodox Russia. By the way, I just spammed Crossbowmen and dealing with the Mongols was fine.

 

[Leoreth]

Russia has Islam as a minority religion to account for its presence in the lower Volga regions and so on. I already resolved to introduce additional regions in that part of the world to make this more precise.

 

[Tigranes]

In case you missed previous updates, buildings are now destroyed over time while the city is in unrest. So you do not see any immediate difference, but sparing has a significant advantage in the number of buildings saved.

Oh I see.. But this is very unrealistic! Sacking does not take years or decades. At least allow 1 building to be looted immediately to create a feel that something bad happened to city right after soldiers were allowed to plunder, loot and rape.