Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

[Bu77Trout]

The Mongols don't receive a stability penalty for raising cities right? Do any other civs enjoy this perk?

 

[banzay13]

I've found Arabia to be absolutely insane since it was nerfed. I skip founding Mecca since it's too far away from your other cities which causes high maintenance. Your economy even at 100% gold rate can't sustain your army once the units lose their free upkeep, so I disbanded all the extra starting Archers. AI Arabia consistently collapses before the year 1000. I was thinking maybe they should get the Masjid al-Haram to start out with. What if Al Kazneh was in Jerusalem at the start as well?

I checked. Arabia collapse coz OE - with new small core, w|o Jails with 3 more small cites (counting from start) they have -10 OE.
Also I gave them Kaaba and Al Kazneh at start - it was very helping for them. And also i noticed that Arabia not willing build wonders now

 

[Publicola]

• If the city did not have a monastery before discovering Scientific Method, it will never be able to build missionaries. Sorry Canada, no spreading Christianity for you.

Maybe obsoleting a building should also obsolete the requirement to have it? That should be relatively simple to implement.

My initial thought re: the monastery discussion: in RFC:Europe, monasteries get replaced with seminaries as the 'modern-age religion building boosting science' -- could that be an option here? Modern seminaries are often where missionaries get trained, so they'd fill the same role in that sense as well.

Another point: in general, it does feel pretty weird that it's specifically 'Scientific Method' that obsoletes monasteries, when it was famously a medieval monk (Albertus Magnus) who pioneered empiricism and the scientific method, and it was a modern monk (Gregor Mendel in the mid-1800s) who discovered genetics using the scientific method. Not to mention that it was monasteries exchanging letters on their experiments and observations that inspired the circular letters and periodicals (and proceedings and journals and eventually peer-review) of the early Enlightenment scientific academies that (iirc) are enabled by the tech in the game.

It does make sense for monasteries to obsolete in the modern age, since they are far less relevant today than they were to the Middle Ages, and it does make sense to set that obsoletion at Scientific Method, though purely for game balance (the same tech adds & removes science bonuses, which avoids the exploit of beelining Scientific Method while never obsoleting monasteries to maximize science for as long as possible). So I get it, but it still rubs me the wrong way -- it's sufficiently ahistorical that there should be a better way to get a similar effect.


One final thought: in the game, 'missionaries' are mostly used for converting your own cities, or occasionally converting foreign cities of friendly powers (to get a shrine boost or positive relations). This is pretty close to historical behavior; there were a few missionaries who did long-distance missions, but they were far rarer and more notable (and more easily represented by Great Prophets, frankly). So the current use of missionaries fits the historical behavior... until we reach the modern era.

Once we hit the modern era, missionaries -- at least those from Christian Europe -- tended to focus far more heavily on overseas work, and far less on local evangelism. Many (most?) famous explorers of the early modern period were in fact missionaries by profession ("David Livingstone, I presume) or acted like missionaries while exploring (e.g. Magellan converting the king and queen of Cebu in the Philippines). In more recent years, current missionaries tend to focus heavily on social work -- growing up in the US, I've seen many churches who celebrated and donated to missionaries specifically for building schools and teaching literacy, or building wells to provide reliable fresh water, etc. (FWIW, there are quite a few NGOs that were founded as missionary organizations that do similar philanthropic work).

I feel like this aspect of modern missionaries is missing from the game at this point. As above, this certainly makes sense -- this element doesn't really fit with the historical behavior of missionaries which is the game's focus, meaning that 'modern missionaries' would effectively be a whole new gameplay element. I also feel like such an overhaul would probably fit well alongside the archaeology & exploration & natural wonders overhaul that's already been discussed before. So it might be best to put it on the back-burner for 1.19, but since the topic was raised I did want to mention it here.

 

[banzay13]

Since Arabia was nerf and not a problem for Byzantine AND if you play with Kievan Rus - your kill all those barbarians for UHV1... And Byzantine enjoy big peaceful grow and go far away in science and wonders.
So, i'm thinking maybe UHV1 for Rus should be different? Something what will represent North Silk Way made by Vikings (Varyags/Ruriks)? Like connect Baltic sea and Black sea or/and Caspian Sea and build 3 Volok?

 

[Apple111111]

Since Arabia was nerf and not a problem for Byzantine AND if you play with Kievan Rus - your kill all those barbarians for UHV1... And Byzantine enjoy big peaceful grow and go far away in science and wonders.
So, i'm thinking maybe UHV1 for Rus should be different? Something what will represent North Silk Way made by Vikings (Varyags/Ruriks)? Like connect Baltic sea and Black sea or/and Caspian Sea and build 3 Volok?

I don’t really mind the first Rus UHV tbh. It’s a bit strange and ahistorical since it sort of encourages conquering either Constantinople or the Levant (it’s probably doable without, just more difficult), but the second UHV could use a change.

The problem with the second UHV is just that the Mongols sometimes get in the way and kill all the barbs for you, and the Baltic Axemen always run off to Poland. It’s definitely possible with a small bit of luck, but I’m generally not huge on any UHV that relies on AI behaviour rather than your own.

 

[banzay13]

I don’t really mind the first Rus UHV tbh. It’s a bit strange and ahistorical since it sort of encourages conquering either Constantinople or the Levant (it’s probably doable without, just more difficult), but the second UHV could use a change.

The problem with the second UHV is just that the Mongols sometimes get in the way and kill all the barbs for you, and the Baltic Axemen always run off to Poland. It’s definitely possible with a small bit of luck, but I’m generally not huge on any UHV that relies on AI behaviour rather than your own.

yeah, i was talking about UHV2, not UHV1. Mislead
As i rmb UHV1 can be archived by settlers. There are a lot of room. And coz you need capture Kazan Khanate and Astrahan Khanate before Ivan th Terrible will even born

 

[banzay13]

Some more about nerfed Arabia

Spoiler :

Spoiler bonus :

 

[banzay13]

How Wining\loosing wars calculate? Playing Inca i'm get -10 Losing wars with France. War began with conquer event and last for 250 years. I was able sink Galleon and took Cayenne - no active fight since that time. And still getting -10 for losing wars

 

[Apple111111]

How Wining\loosing wars calculate? Playing Inca i'm get -10 Losing wars with France. War began with conquer event and last for 250 years. I was able sink Galleon and took Cayenne - no active fight since that time. And still getting -10 for losing wars

I think it might depend on whether or not the other nation is willing to give you stuff for peace or you have to give them stuff for peace. Not 100% sure on that, though, just a general observation.

 

[banzay13]

I think it might depend on whether or not the other nation is willing to give you stuff for peace or you have to give them stuff for peace. Not 100% sure on that, though, just a general observation.

So... They have significant military power located somewhere behind big puddle and don't use it against me, but i get penalty for that, Doesn't sound good((

 

[Lokki242]

Whether you are actively "threatening" a civ makes a huge difference, so if you have troops in their territory, and especially near a city, they will be more likely to make terms. Sometimes simply moving my troops has been the difference between the AI demanding a city from me in peace negotiations to full surrender terms.

 

[black213]

Is there currently no way to clear marshes?

 

[banzay13]

Marshes are graveyard of great war between Mordor and Last Alliance. So, they under protection of the Military Graveyards Law.
So, they cannot be cleared

 

[Dracosolon]

Marshes are graveyard of great war between Mordor and Last Alliance. So, they under protection of the Military Graveyards Law.
So, they cannot be cleared

Also some fat green dude will start yelling at you if you send people there.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I'm curious: What things have been mostly been worked on in the last month or so: Bugs, city names or anything else?

 

[AOS9001]

I'm curious: What things have been mostly been worked on in the last month or so: Bugs, city names or anything else?

Just the other day Leoreth posted about his plans for city names in this forum. Doesn’t seem like there’s any way us masses can help with that, for now.

 

[banzay13]

Starting playing with Congo i found Mamluk Sultanate alive and switched for them. Was interesting to see, how could game be. Ottomans and Iran ate me))
So. I started 600AD game with France and autoplay till 1100 (or 1000 and then by +50 years). On second attempt i switch to Mamluks in 1100)) In first - they didn't respawn. Any idea for possible UHV? (for fun)
Also. Does England respawn? Who know? In this game London was captured by Barbarians in 1070 and England died

 

[SultanRedSnake]

In this game London was captured by Barbarians in 1070 and England died

This is the most historical event I've ever witnessed in the life of this mod.

 

[Tigranes]

Starting playing with Congo i found Mamluk Sultanate alive and switched for them. Was interesting to see, how could game be. Ottomans and Iran ate me))
So. I started 600AD game with France and autoplay till 1100 (or 1000 and then by +50 years). On second attempt i switch to Mamluks in 1100)) In first - they didn't respawn. Any idea for possible UHV? (for fun)

Didn't you notice there is a modmodmod with playable Muslim Egypt/Misr in this forum?

 

[wcascade]

Where do you guys like to place your Korean cities?