Death Thread I: No God => Death is God.

[Borachio]

I'm not fond of either atheism nor theism. Both seem divisive ideologies to me. I keep looking for an ideology which is all-inclusive, and universalist.

 

[Old Hippy]

I'm not fond of either atheism nor theism. Both seem divisive ideologies to me. I keep looking for an ideology which is all-inclusive, and universalist.

but then someone would write it down ... and we would all be at each others throats again

 

[Borachio]

I agree. Which is why it's important to recognize that truth is inexpressible, and maybe unknowable.

So many problems and conflicts seem to be rooted in people thinking they "know" stuff.

I can't think of any which are caused by people scratching their heads and saying "Well, I dunno!"

 

[bhavv]

I don't see atheism as an ideology. It just seems to be the label stamped on people who do not believe in god / deities, a mere descriptive word of people who are not, i.e. a - theists.

Theism on the other hand is split heavily into many different ideologies and is not an ideology itself - each religion, each denomination of each religion, individualistic personal beliefs, and even deism.

Theres lots of other philosophical branches / beliefs as well not only agnosticism, but I'm not bothered about those, though you can look them up if you want.

 

[Borachio]

I just knew someone would pop up and say atheism isn't an ideology, as I wrote!

I expect another person will say that theism isn't an ideology either.

Thank you for your permission to look stuff up. You're very kind. No. No, really you are! But it's a little vague what you might be referring to. Just "lots of other" philosophies.

 

[bhavv]

Its vague because I can barely remember them all myself.

I also said that theism itself is not an ideology, but a collection of many ideologies.

 

[bhavv]

A lot of people for some reason fear being labeled an atheist because they dislike what some other atheists are like. This makes about as much sense as not wanting to be called a human because some humans are bad.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Say it loud
I'm atheist and I'm not really bothered enough about that label to have any sort of emotional discriptive term attached to it.

Wonder why I'm never invited to picket rallies.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, there ARE different forms of atheism, I'll not deny. I went through all three.

As a baby, I didn't believe in any gods.
As a child, I believed in the Christian god.
As a teen, I didn't, because I thought people's conclusions were dumb* (rebellion more than anything else).
Then, I decided to give the idea a second chance.
Abandoned it as an adult, due to skepticism regarding the evidence Christians put forwards. Since then, I'm 'more' atheist because I don't think the idea makes philosophical sense (1 Corinthians 13:11)

I used to kind of hedge my behaviours in some type of Pascal's Wager variant. Now, I act like there's no God, which matches my professed beliefs.

Now, I'm 'atheist' regarding many gods, I've never seriously considered Thor, or Odin or Vishnu. I just generally don't believe in the same way you currently don't believe that I'm an elephant who typed this post with my trunk - it had never occurred to you to consider it, much less reject it. The Abrahamic God, I don't believe in, since I think there's insufficient evidence for the various feats we were told He did. Considered and rejected.

*In my defense, my family's church was crazy fundy

 

[Borachio]

I'm quite fond of atheistic Christianity.

Here it is:


Link to video.

Slavic sibilants, and all.

"There is no Big Other which guarantees meaning".

And "the Holy Ghost is simply the emancipatory collective of believers". I like it.

 

[Tigranes]

Your credibility at this point has gone down to zero. You seem to be intent on making any asinine reason up simply to attack atheism, a topic which you and another poster here are completely ignorant about.

You have to rebut correlations found by scientific study by another study, not by your tone or attitude. And when it comes to "practical" atheism "My horde can beat your horde any day of the week." So sayeth the great Khan. You would need to get born in atheist country and get raised in atheistic society and brainwashed by atheistic school system, and have real hard time to even buy a Bible in the capital of the first Christian nation to match up with my practical experience.

The only thing I saw from you so far is emotions. Try to answer my question who has a better chance to resist suicide thoughts -- depressed believer or depressed septic. I answered your statistics with mine after all. I answer your question and asked mine. That's how Real Discussions work, Mr. Credibility. Or should I say Incredibility?

 

[Borachio]

And you need to have been brought up in a (nominally) Christian country, by Christian parents, with your earliest memories consisting of Christian iconography, to appreciate my position, Mr Tigranes. Can you get near any appreciation, do you think?

 

[El_Machinae]

I'd not be surprised if there was some cognitive/emotion benefit to faith.

edit: suicide is hard to unpack, because some faiths crank up the guilt people feel about suicide. So, it doesn't improve their outlook on life.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I'd not be surprised if there was some cognitive/emotion benefit to faith.

Yes, such is the nature of opiates.

 

[Borachio]

I'd not be surprised if there was some cognitive/emotion benefit to faith.

I'd not be surprised if having faith doesn't resemble some kind of pathology.

The people I've encountered with it seem to be genuinely bonkers. Though frequently rather gently so.

But there is a hypothesis that there's an evolutionary advantage to having a religion: they say those with religion don't tend to give up as easily as others might. I'm dubious about this, however.

And a lot depends on what you mean by religion, of course. Those who are self-confessed atheists might in fact be exhibiting more religious faith than others.

The very idea of God (or the debate about whether there is one or not) never even enters the mind of the true atheist.

 

[El_Machinae]

There's a cause and effect there. What if bonkers people are attracted to faith? As well, churches tend to be very loving organizations, and bonkers people have a hard time feeling loved (we don't know how to interact properly), so we attend churches to get some type of community.

 

[Angst]

How could I not have encountered this thread before now.

I'd not be surprised if there was some cognitive/emotion benefit to faith.

I learned that God has doomed us with moralist despair and that we must grasp in the darkness for some ability to be coherently good.

 

[Borachio]

Yeah. I can quite see that. I've always felt the secular community is missing out somehow. What do we have instead of churches? Pubs, bridge circles and football clubs?

 

[Angst]

I prefer wild hedonism before church, that is, if that hedonism is social and I can put a smile on someone else's face. Even if it is done in the face of God to conduct an abomination. If I recognize the good in my act, I willfully defy Him to provide for the good of my neighbour.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah. I can quite see that. I've always felt the secular community is missing out somehow. What do we have instead of churches? Pubs, bridge circles and football clubs?

Well, we have nearly everything that functions just fine under secular principles. Like, the rules for driving. You can be atheist and drive just fine. You might not enjoy church, but you have no problem staying on the correct side of the road.