Defensive stacks.

[Sjaramei]

I just won my first emperor game.. and it wasn't as hard as i imagined.. however i managed to get a couple of big cities razed due to naval landings from those evil mongols .

So my question is.. do you build only a strong navy to counter backdoor attacks or do you have stacks of mobile units to attack a naval landing when it happens? If you got a stack what modern units is good to counter it? (thats the era i get trouble) If gunships are good (i think they would be for something like this) should i try to get flight fast to build them?

(bear in mind i hate building navy... so it's only when i get destroyer/battleships i build ships. And i'm not a very big fan of hard defense either, most of my cities usually have 1-2 units in defense.)

Lots of questions i know but give me some help please

(i never had military trouble on monarch (heavy tech lead usually) so this new for me)

 

[svv]

It's usually easier to build a defensive force than to build a navy to compete with someone who has a naval advantage. Unless you have some other reason for wanting to control that sea, you're better off using your hammers on land units.

As for the best units for the defensive force, it depends on what the enemy has. Gunships are the best against tanks, so if the enemy has tanks you'll want gunships. Machine guns are cheap and are good all-around defenders. Of course, nothing beats mech infantry if you have the tech to build them.

Of course, make sure you have railroads to allow your defensive units to get wherever they need to get in one turn.

 

[Mutineer]

If you are talking about modern age and gunships, then you should have fligth and railroads. So, with RR movement I fail to undestand how you was not able to bring defence, and with Figters I fail to undestand you did not see them with your recon mission 3 turns befor they can theoretically land.

 

[Sisiutil]

If I may, I'd like you to consider a bigger question:

Why did the Mongols think they could get away with attacking you in the first place?

Beyond the programmed personalities and the RNG, there are two main factors that lead to the AI declaring war: power and diplomacy.

In terms of power, you must have looked weak. Remember to keep building units and keep your military up-to-date. Also remember that barracks and drydocks count towards your power rating, so slip those in as builds when you can too. Also ensure that you have decent defensive stacks in places where the AI is likely to attack--which is, generally, whichever part of your empire is closest to theirs. The AI is fond of low-hanging fruit.

In terms of diplomacy: were the Mongols of a different religion? Did they ask you to convert, or change civics, or give them tribute, and you turned them down? Did you declare war on any of their friends? Did you have vassals? Conversely, did you give them trade deals in their favour? Did you run their favourite civics? Help them during a war? Did you sign a defensive pact with them or with their rivals? The friendlier a civ is, the less likely they are to go to war with you, though the only absolute guarantee of that is if they're "friendly".

 

[scooter]

It's usually easier to build a defensive force than to build a navy to compete with someone who has a naval advantage. Unless you have some other reason for wanting to control that sea, you're better off using your hammers on land units.

I actually disagree to an extent, here's why: He's wouldn't be using this navy for invasion purposes, but for defensive purposes. In this case, he would just need a big enough navy to give himself a heads-up that a landing party was coming, and if he's lucky enough to sink a couple ships, and the AI is notoriously bad at landing parties. IMO build some ships and post them as a sentry. By then you should have plenty of time to rush some units back (especially with railroads). If you have enough coastal cities, IMO it's worth it to build even more ships for sake of sinking enemy landing parties as well, since it's a lot easier to kill 8 tanks on transports then 8 tanks next to one of your cities...

 

[Sjaramei]

If I may, I'd like you to consider a bigger question:

Why did the Mongols think they could get away with attacking you in the first place?

Beyond the programmed personalities and the RNG, there are two main factors that lead to the AI declaring war: power and diplomacy.

In terms of power, you must have looked weak. Remember to keep building units and keep your military up-to-date. Also remember that barracks and drydocks count towards your power rating, so slip those in as builds when you can too. Also ensure that you have decent defensive stacks in places where the AI is likely to attack--which is, generally, whichever part of your empire is closest to theirs. The AI is fond of low-hanging fruit.

In terms of diplomacy: were the Mongols of a different religion? Did they ask you to convert, or change civics, or give them tribute, and you turned them down? Did you declare war on any of their friends? Did you have vassals? Conversely, did you give them trade deals in their favour? Did you run their favourite civics? Help them during a war? Did you sign a defensive pact with them or with their rivals? The friendlier a civ is, the less likely they are to go to war with you, though the only absolute guarantee of that is if they're "friendly".

I was aiming for domination. So i declared on a "friend" of them of course (koreans). I had 50% land and 60% or so pop and highest power rating. (i tried to get friendly with bismarck his neighbour through trades/mutual wars, but that was almost impossible (didn't work very well), i'm starting to dislike this guy now)

I used free religion, traded some with them not very interested in keeping them happy since they were the civ most far away from me. Thats why the damn ambush with boats worked on me. And i had 1 vassal, and had declared on a sorta friend of them before(which i killed), so diplomacy is not surprising, i was kinda expecting it.. i mean it's the mongols... .

If you are talking about modern age and gunships, then you should have fligth and railroads. So, with RR movement I fail to undestand how you was not able to bring defence, and with Figters I fail to undestand you did not see them with your recon mission 3 turns befor they can theoretically land.

And fighters? i never built one i think... though i had like 40 bombers.. i'm not used to fighting equal tech wars late game as you see. And those were all on the offensive, and since for some wierd reason i had no coal i had almost no railroads in my empire (40% covered or something at the time) i had to get coal from one of my vassals and i think it got pillaged or something since i was warring almost constantly to get my domination win as soon as possible

I actually disagree to an extent, here's why: He's wouldn't be using this navy for invasion purposes, but for defensive purposes. In this case, he would just need a big enough navy to give himself a heads-up that a landing party was coming, and if he's lucky enough to sink a couple ships, and the AI is notoriously bad at landing parties. IMO build some ships and post them as a sentry. By then you should have plenty of time to rush some units back (especially with railroads). If you have enough coastal cities, IMO it's worth it to build even more ships for sake of sinking enemy landing parties as well, since it's a lot easier to kill 8 tanks on transports then 8 tanks next to one of your cities...

Yes i had a navy (not very big, 6-7 destroyers and 4-5 battleships), but a huge coastline to defend and those mongol boats got so much strength promotions compared to me

But it seems i gotta prioritize navy more, and maybe stick some gunships at a central point in my empire. Can't just steamroll the AI like on monarch anymore

 

[cabert]

naval defense is mostly about prewarning then force concentration

3 big ways to achieve warning:
1)- a sentry net
Pros :
this way, you have the forces to counter the invasion, if you manage to get there in time
cons : expensive, hard to get there in time, mostly passive (= easy to miss the invasion force, if you don't look hard)
2) - a few submarines or caravels, checking your potential agressor's cities to see it stack then launch the invasion
Pros : cheap, earliest warning possible
Cons : you're not allowed a mistake = you need to keep checking the invaders every turn and to be very careful noticing stacked transports or galleons or galleys (2 is a stack!)
3) - air recon
pro : cheap, efficient, the planes are also very useful to weaken the ships
cons : you need to have flight ! using a lot of airforce for defensive purpose, when it could be used in offensive manouevers is somewhat counterintuitive

 

[Bagpuss]

Cabert:
Is there any way to get automate the reconning of the same area every turn by air units? To relieve the tedium I mean.
Thanks.

 

[cabert]

Cabert:
Is there any way to get automate the reconning of the same area every turn by air units? To relieve the tedium I mean.
Thanks.

no way I know
It could be good, though it would lead to visible units which you don't see (having automated the recon mission).

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Cabert:
Is there any way to get automate the reconning of the same area every turn by air units? To relieve the tedium I mean.
Thanks.

The closest I've come to 'automating' a sentry has been to queue up a series of moves back and forth (or around) for my sentry ... this usually lasts for about 6 turns each time you queue him up.

 

[bardolph]

naval defense is mostly about prewarning then force concentration

Agreed. Since naval units can't intercept except on your own turn, it's difficult to sink transports before they reach your shores. However, if you get enough prewarning and have enough fast movers (destroyers), then it's possible to intercept.

3 big ways to achieve warning:
1)- a sentry net

This can be useful, if the sentries stay in motion. Destroyers can sweep a pretty large area each turn.

2) - a few submarines or caravels, checking your potential agressor's cities to see it stack then launch the invasion

An excellent solution, with the added bonus that your enemy doesn't know that you're spying on them. Spies can also be used for this purpose (plus, you can use a submarine to bring the spy into position).

3) - air recon

Also a fine solution. Bombers actually make terrific recon units, due to their range. Carriers outfitted with fighters can recon a tremendous area each turn. With a couple of carriers in position (plus destroyer escort), it's unlikely that anyone can sneak transports into your territory.

It might be possible to queue up recon missions from cities. I haven't tried this. (EDIT: I just tried this. YES, you can queue up several turns' worth of recon missions at a time!)

 

[axident]

Don't waste hammers on an unnecessarily large navy. A good railroad network, several siege weapons, and a competent mop-up crew can probably destroy any feeble AI invasions by sea. (Artillery + a few tanks = best for this.) Or if you have bombers, that works even better than siege weapons. Aircraft are also good at recon. Land units on D can turn into land units on O when the time is right. So can defensive aircraft.

P.S. Also you get more xp for destroying more units so sinking a transport is nice but nets you like 1-2 xp compared to the scads you get from destroying them the moment that they land. Xp is nice for GG-generation. I was non-Imperialistic with Great Wall in a game where my biggest enemies were forced to ship stuff to my shores as they couldn't get to me by land, and by the beginning of the modern era, I had a HE/West Pt city cranking out tanks with 27 xp, courtesy of Pentagon help though. And that's withOUT imperialistic.

 

[Silver Marmot]

I've been quite sucessful with naval defenses, but it requires a ton of ships. Basically, you need to surround your territory so that it is impossible for the enemy to come out of nowhere and land troops in one turn (this means having your ships somewhat distant from your coastline). Your ships need to be capable of catching up to the enemy's transports and sinking them before they reach land. This is usually never a problem, since the AI is often too stupid to adequetly defend his transports.

The advantage to this is that, if done right, you don't need to focus much on land units. The disadvantage is that you need to do it perfectly (as in you can't have any weak spots) because if a couple transports break through you'll be screwed.