Deity Build Order

[Victoria]

Spammed settlers and focused on a peaceful science win that was achieved on T357.

hey... T357 can be a lot faster if you get to grips with what you do when.
The Kupe Terra is sort of a stable training environment because it is peaceful. Not talking high depth just how some tips on what to build when in what cities can get you to a guaranteed less than 250 victory.
glad you got a deity victory though. Nice to have one under the belt.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

hey... T357 can be a lot faster if you get to grips with what you do when.
The Kupe Terra is sort of a stable training environment because it is peaceful. Not talking high depth just how some tips on what to build when in what cities can get you to a guaranteed less than 250 victory.
glad you got a deity victory though. Nice to have one under the belt.

I am still trying to get an SV under 200 Turns.
I just played Alex somewhat peaceful and finished at turn 236.
I had a problem with Culture since no Culture CS's.
Two Science CS's were nice.
I find it very difficult to get under 200 turns with SV if you play fast and don't understand how to be optimal.
No Religious Settlements this game and Plantations was my choice as I had them all over my lands but they came later in the game hurting that initial culture.
I didn't do very well on Great People as well as I finished before any of the SV ones came online.

How do you get as many Inspirations/Eurekas as possible?
I have difficulty balancing them out... usually struggle earning them on the topside of the trees.
How does one earn Great People faster?

I am pretty sure my major problem is planning out a Pillaging War.
It seems I am usually DoF with my neighbors too much.
Need to plan that out better as it is worth a ton of Science, Culture, Gold and Faith.

 

[Victoria]

usually struggle earning them on the topside of the trees.

So what topside eurekas do you miss? 3 workshops can be hard, killing with a musket?... hopefully you get a lumbermill up... you need to plan more. A good example for me is I’ll build 2 early campus OFC but then in the next cities it’s 2 commercial hubs first. Do you always build 3 warriors for the musket conversion?

 

[Fluphen Azine]

So what topside eurekas do you miss? 3 workshops can be hard, killing with a musket?... hopefully you get a lumbermill up... you need to plan more. A good example for me is I’ll build 2 early campus OFC but then in the next cities it’s 2 commercial hubs first. Do you always build 3 warriors for the musket conversion?

The musket one can be tough for me.
Everyone says the IZ is unimportant so I never get the 3 workshops unless I am playing warmonger.

I do build the 8 units as you suggested before like 3 Archers, 3 Warriors, 3 Heavy Chariots.
I have to try that with the Commercial Hubs.
I have been having a problem with getting up CH's and Markets in a timely manner.
I usually plant Campuses First and focus on Libraries/Universities.
Probably focusing on Education and Universities too much in my games.
Next game I will remember to get out some CHs in expo 3 and 4.
I always forget to get a CH/Harbor triangle going.
I seem to be late with the 4 Trade Routes all the time.
I never build 2 Caravels.
Great Artist is a problem.
I never get the Harbors up, rarely get two Galleys.
I miss the Wonder Build and it is rare that I research Construction in time for the boost.
Lately I have been ignoring Encampments so I miss those boosts.
Target of DoW escapes me most of the time.
6 Farms can be a problem if I don't focus on it because I am trying not to build early builders.
Rarely Found a Religion.
Declaring a War with Casus Belli never works for me lol.
Sometimes I forget the 10 Pop and struggle at the 15 pop city.

lol I just realized I am really bad at this game!
I seem to do better at the Tech Boosts though.

 

[Victoria]

I seem to do better at the Tech Boosts though.

And yet the civic boosts feel more important to me. Ever considered not getting military training, mercenaries and merchant republic? It is a big chunk, especially without inspiration. You need gunpowder for rocketry and 3 muskets so unless wanting frigates, delay em. Do you chop in food? Do you use provision? Without one or the other it is hard to get 10 pop city. I often use Amani in a CS I think will be taken to try and get the casus.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

And yet the civic boosts feel more important to me. Ever considered not getting military training, mercenaries and merchant republic? It is a big chunk, especially without inspiration. You need gunpowder for rocketry and 3 muskets so unless wanting frigates, delay em. Do you chop in food? Do you use provision? Without one or the other it is hard to get 10 pop city. I often use Amani in a CS I think will be taken to try and get the casus.

The Science Boosts seem kinda natural compared to the Civic Boosts.
I will have to make it a point to focus more on the Civic Boosts.
I usually build/chop in all my campuses first in all cities and move to Commercial Hubs.
After that I work on getting all Theater Squares.
Maybe I need to spread it out better like you suggest.
Perhaps first 2 cities with Campus First, next 2 with Comm Hubs and next 2 with Theater Squares.
Perhaps that works out better and is more well rounded.
I probably focus too heavy on Science Only which actually slows me down in the long run.

I do try to chop in the population and the production.
I really try to get as many 10 pop cities as possible before Rationalism... perhaps I need to try harder.
I know you and others make it look simple and can finish with ease under 200 turns but I just find it to be a difficult balancing act.
If I am going Peaceful I will try to get the Pyramids and Colosseum like you suggest.
I've had really good games with those two Wonders but it can be a struggle to replicate it.

I have used provision and actually like it.
It is tough to decide on Governors for early game and Ping just seems to be the more simple choice.
I need to focus a bit more on getting Trade Routes up faster.
It can be difficult to understand when to go internal over external.

Perhaps I value Merchant Republic too much.
I am always making a beeline for it if I have the boosts or not.
I'll have to try some games delaying it.
Thanks for the advice... it does help, I just need to shave off about 30-40 more turns.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

lol I was just reading about this strategy where you pre-build a bunch of builders.
Use the 30% card while building.
Stop them at Turn 1 and wait for Serfdom.
Plug that card in and finish all your builders in every city.
I have pre-built things before but didn't think about this.
Is this a common strategy?
Anyone doing this?

 

[Victoria]

Is this a common strategy?

Well... yes. If I am not building anything else I will prebuild the builders and the 30% card just makes is more efficient. Its naff and I often forget but hey... its efficient.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

when I started with Civ VI there were a lot of Eurekahs/Inspos that I personally deemed not "optimal", some obvious ones would be getting two Galleys, getting two Caravels (even though Merchant Republic is so important..), getting ancient walls, owning 2 Bombards, killing a unit with a Pike (I find Spearmen a bit lacking and build neither of the two mostly). over time this has changed drastically. Essentially, I think this is how you should prioritize Eurekahs/Inspos:

How essential is the tech/civic I am going for right now?
How much will delaying this snowball effect hurt me in the long run, how high are the benefits of delaying it?
How fast is my science and culture progressing? If it is going very fast you might actually be crippling yourself by waiting for Eurekahs instead of snowballing. The slower it is the more important the Eurekahs become.

So it's always weighing the "instant snowball gratification" (just researching that Political Philosophy even though there are plenty of CS out there) versus optimal ressource allocation (ideally you never want to miss a single Eurekah, even on unimportant techs, because it slows you down significantly).

Personally, this is my takeaway:

Almost every Eurekah/Inspo is worth getting. If you have an army and navy, and a decent amount of cities, and some buying power (I personally really favor high GPT and trade route builds) you should have absolutely no trouble getting most Eurekahs. In a usual game I get about 7/10, maybe 8/10 or more if the map is good, and I rarely have to delay crucial techs/civics (I honestly don't think it's ever worth it to delay govt., for example, neither is it worth delaying the incredibly boosts from techs like Industrialization). Nowadays they often come towards me naturally anyway, without putting in too much extra effort.

lol I was just reading about this strategy where you pre-build a bunch of builders.
Use the 30% card while building.
Stop them at Turn 1 and wait for Serfdom.
Plug that card in and finish all your builders in every city.
I have pre-built things before but didn't think about this.
Is this a common strategy?
Anyone doing this?

It's a common and incredibly strong strategy. One think to keep in mind however is that with this strategy you are actively crippling yourself in order to get a significant bonus later on, which is not always the right choice.

I used to do the Feudalism trick in every one of my cities, but have lately come to the conclusion that it's suboptimal play. I now prefer prebuilding workers in production heavy cities while focussing on GPT in order to buy workers in my other cities. Buying and chopping workers with the Serfdom card is peak efficiency.

Spending 20 turns churning out a worker in a city that desperately needs a monument and a campus is not. Especially considerung you are using a global ressource (gold) to get a local ressource (worker & tile improvements) in a very efficient manner (because of the policy). Buying a worker in an expo is so, so much better than buying a monument in that expo, due to policy cards, them being most effective if used for only one turn, the golden era bonus for buying workers etc.

Another pitfall of the Feudalism trick is that workers grow in cost. Often times I would prebuild 10 workers and then only get 4 or 5 on the turn they're supposed to finish, because the cost for the other workers increased, and suddenly they take 5+ turns longer in my bad cities. Really sucks because you have to find another time for a perfect back-to-back policy switch.

 

[SephirothsRevenge]

I must just be the worst Civ player ever. I've tried all these build orders. I've known about Eurekas and Inspirations. The only Deity file I've won since my OP was Egypt science when I had my own island/continent. Otherwise, I can never keep up with the Science AND units that the AI manages to produce. It's incredibly frustrating, and I'm contemplating just being done with the game in general. I probably should just play on easier levels, but I've gotten good enough at Emperor that I really want to get good at Deity. Knowing that that difficulty level exists makes me want to master it. I'm just super stubborn that way. I'm really flabbergasted and in awe that anybody can win Deity with any regularity. It just doesn't seem possible, and I really want to pull people's cards to see if they're lying or make them play in front of me on the settings I choose. It just doesn't seem even remotely winnable most times. I've looked at the HOF and GOTM, and I just can't seem to apply the same strategies to my own games. Also, some of those games are outdated since they don't deal with the newest updates.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I must just be the worst Civ player ever. I've tried all these build orders. I've known about Eurekas and Inspirations. The only Deity file I've won since my OP was Egypt science when I had my own island/continent. Otherwise, I can never keep up with the Science AND units that the AI manages to produce. It's incredibly frustrating, and I'm contemplating just being done with the game in general. I probably should just play on easier levels, but I've gotten good enough at Emperor that I really want to get good at Deity. Knowing that that difficulty level exists makes me want to master it. I'm just super stubborn that way. I'm really flabbergasted and in awe that anybody can win Deity with any regularity. It just doesn't seem possible, and I really want to pull people's cards to see if they're lying or make them play in front of me on the settings I choose. It just doesn't seem even remotely winnable most times. I've looked at the HOF and GOTM, and I just can't seem to apply the same strategies to my own games. Also, some of those games are outdated since they don't deal with the newest updates.

I understand your feelings.
These guys are that good though and finish very fast.
I am not sure how much they are exploiting in the way of trade and other manipulations.
Many of them can do it without exploitation though.

I find it very hard to lose if you build up an Army First.
You may have a few games where you get boxed into the middle of the map.
DoWed and Barbed does happen but it is kinda rare.
I am not sure what you are doing wrong because usually by turn 100-125 I have locked up the win on Deity.
I said win not super fast win.
Standard, Standard, Low Sea, Pangaea or Continents Map.

A few things that could help you...
Focus on certain CS's that will give you more of what you want/need.
If you have Science CS's you want to get up your libraries and universities up asap.
3 Military CS's are good to have one point in when building units in the capital right?
It helps more than I thought.
So this is reading your map better which you probably already know.

Use an easier Civ like Rome or Aztecs.

Don't scout too far from the capital at first.
If you want to scout, well, build a scout or two.

Not very easy but steal settlers if you can.
The earlier the better.
You do this by building military first and camping out on the AI's borders immediately.

Save your Gold and Levy a CS that is close to the AI.
Use their troops to pillage and or take cities.
Works better than you might think.

Save Chops for Magnus and Policy Cards.
Chop up your population with a Granary.
Work on getting those 10 Pop Cities before Rationalism.

Chop your Army with the Proper Cards!!
If you are going for Early War!

War is your friend but you have to pick on the weak.
One of your neighbors should be weak... check their lands and army count.
If you are boxed in and for some reason can't get any advantage which happens sometimes...
Play Friendly with everyone till you can get the advantage which you should be able to.
If you are on horrible land you should be focused on War and taking over at least 1 Civ which will give you plenty of space.
Be careful of how to attack though as you don't want to trigger a full out emergency on yourself.
Did the AI get up walls because if not you still can get into a Knight Rush.
Combination of Military seems better to me these days.

Try not to hard build so many districts too early and plan them out better to get adjacency bonuses.
It really does make a difference but it means you have to play slower.

Once you get the hang of it you will think it is too easy and have to find other challenges.
I think some of the most important things are...
Early Settlers
Enough Early Builders to get Resources and 6 Farms if you aren't conquering.
Governor Ping seems to be an easy go to for faster culture.
Early Gold however you can will be a huge boost unless you are restricting your play.
Push yourself to get to PP and Feudalism faster and faster!
If you have the land and time, building that Colosseum is amazing.
If you can get the Pyramids with it your game can feel like easy mode.
The problem is being able to plan them out.
Sometimes I can't risk building them and other times I see I will get them up very early.

I typed too much and most of it is redundant and I am not very good at the game.
I do believe you should be able to win most games on Deity Standard if not all of them once you get the hang of it.

Rushing up to Bombers and securing enough land for Aluminum is pretty OP.
It may not be the fastest but the AI has no counter to it.
So you have to save up gold to rush buy your Air Force.
It's a balancing act of spt, gpt, cpt, land grabbing and possibly early war.

Post up a map for us to play and see what happens???

 

[yung.carl.jung]

contrary to what he says @Fluphen Azine is actually really damn good at this game, I would know, I've been reading his posts since early Civ V

I second the notion of posting an unwinnable map

 

[Casualty of war]

I find I can get a lot of the early game Inspirations and Eurekas with a Levy, especially for Mercenaries as my little Barb-taming quartet shoots up past the magic 8. Also if there are two or more Tribal Villages in their vicinity, I will Levy their units to go fetch them. I hate paying so much to upgrade Crossbowmen but I will borrow some for 30 turns.

What I need help with is getting my 10 pop city in time. I'm tired of hard researching that one.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I can win but I can't win in expedite fashion like these real pros around here.
I play too fast and get too lazy.
I exploit but I don't exploit enough.
Here is a perfect example of a game where things were easy but I lost complete focus.
This cost me at least 40 to 50 turns.
SV with little struggle at turn 283.
Playing as Matthias as I wanted to have some fun with the Levy Feature.
I made good use of it to get 1 Levy and take out Nubia.
I just didn't have enough CS's nearby to make better use of it.
I played too nice with Scotland and had a Level 2 Alliance.
In my experience if you war it up with a Level 2 you risk all out Backstabbing AI Emergency against yourself.
So I just played Friendly.
Finished with 14 cities but not sure you can count the 3 pop city so 13 I suppose.
I was trying to focus a bit more on Theaters and went overboard.
Only 1 CS and 2 Culture CS's so I had trouble with spt.
I usually have trouble with everything anyways lol.
I guess my point is that this game was an easy win and it took me double the time as the pros so if I can do that I am willing to bet you can do it.
Here are a few pictures.

Spoiler SV 283 :

Spoiler SV Pic 2 :

Spoiler SV pic 3 :

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Completely different start this time, I played as Poland.
I was able to bribe off Harold as he was upset I didn't have a Navy.
No Iron nearby but I do have horses but been selling them.
Science Per Turn is flying by as I am at 72 vs the AI at 48.
I am late to Feudalism coming at turn 86 and I will settle two cities with 5 charge builders.
Nothing to brag about here but I should be able to just cruise along without much of a threat.
Most likely take out Matthias.
Hoping to DoF Harold but he isn't ready.
Fun Start for me this time but too many Faith CS's for my taste.
Zulu killed Kumasi very early which was disappointing but at least I only had 1 Envoy in them.

I got the first 3 Great Scientists which was nice.
Rare for me actually.
Rush Bought 2 Libraries and used the GS for the 3rd Campus.
Found Hattusa very late lol as I scouted all the way to the edge and back.
Golden Age coming up in 1 turn so I should be able to make use of Monumentality.
Try to expand a bit, build some more Warriors and upgrade to Muskets.
Try to take some cities even though they have walls up or at least pillage.

It actually got better on turn 86 when Matthias fell into a Dark Age.
Most of the AI fell Dark this time.

Spoiler Turn 85 CS's :

Spoiler Turn 85 spt :

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@Fluphen Azine

Only a few things I can make out from the screenshots:

Your culture and science are looking super good, almost too good for my states. Your expansion is much slower than mine. I've had games on Vanilla Civ VI where I had 15 cities t80, 25 cities t100. those are outliers, for sure, but 10 cities by t80 is even possible peacefully, definitely possible with war. 3 cities (even though your settlers are already out) at t80+ ist just going to break your neck. It's not enough to snowball or get over the midgame slump (I call it that, when you've gotten all the good medieval techs/civics, gotten your 2nd govt and aren't quite at industrialization).

Your gold per turn is incredibly low. In the game where I'm slow (200+ turns) I usually end up with 1000-2000GPT. In the ones I am doing well and finish fast, usually between 300-500GPT. GPT means rushing buildings, rushing great people, it's one mechanisms that allows you to circumvent your bottlenecks, so extremely important. It seems you also didn't disband your units, which I always do when I'm close to victory.

In the poland game it looks like you prioritized science over culture a bit too much. Idk about GS, but in vanilla Civ some players managed to get their feudalism builder rush out by t60. I usually get it in the mid or late 70s.

I can win but I can't win in expedite fashion like these real pros around here.
I play too fast and get too lazy.
I exploit but I don't exploit enough.

I'm exactly the same. feelsbadman

What I need help with is getting my 10 pop city in time. I'm tired of hard researching that one.

I often miss the 10/15pop city inspo as well, unless I have food chops in the city. Really depends on your start. One thing that helps is getting an early aqueduct in your best food city, not building it when you've reached housing limit, but thinking in advance.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

@yung.carl.jung

No Doubt.
I do a ton of things wrong.
Probably went too heavy Science this game.
I tend to fall into that pitfall.

My Land was kinda bad to get some sort of mass settlers.
Mostly Desert to the West, Tundra North and Water East.
Perhaps I could of rushed into Matthias earlier but not sure how.
No Iron and I didn't focus on Archers/Horseman.
For some reason I just went heavy campus.

I'm at turn 154 and was in a difficult war with Matthias.
He had Walls and somewhat difficult land.
It didn't help that I had to break his encampments too lol.
Took awhile for me to get to Steel and Artillery but should wipe him out soon.
Capital and a few cities in my control now.
I expect to finish in the 225 to 275 range as usual.
My back and forth style probably doesn't help compared to just focusing on one precise plan.
I get too focused in on war and lose focus with builders.

I guess my point was to show that it isn't that hard to get the Science Lead over the AI.
@SephirothsRevenge was talking about how he/she never can overcome the AI spt and units.
Even with only 3 cities you can see anyone can get the Science Lead quickly.
I do admit that it might be better to have more early culture though.
Zulu kinda killed my plan when they took over Kumasi

Spoiler T 154 :

Spoiler pic 2 :