Deity Challenge - The Landsknecht Rush

[Mylene]

Hear ye Hear ye brave souls,
this is your Landsknechtness Mylene speaking.

You must beeline to Engineering, and declare war on 2 (two) AIs with an army mainly consisting of Landsknechts and Trebs. This basically means: go to war with 1 AI, defeat (vassal) it or make peace, then plan the war against the next AI, defeat (vassal) it or make peace.
Then you can do whatever you want with the game

Not tempted? Maybe this screenie will help...!
I moved the scout already 1 step to show the goodies. Yip i waited till i get an especially good start for this, as it is hard enough to do. Did not touch the map thou, this is as the generator spilled it out.

Spoiler :

Settings: Standard stuff, no huts/events, Pangea normal, Deity.
I tested the map, to make sure this is doable in most cases i also opened up the worldbuilder after a while, so i maybe had the slight advantage of the game master

A screenie of me finishing engineering and building up my army (heavy spoilers about the map ofc, don't open too early if you want to give it a shot).

Spoiler :

...let the games begin, show the world that Charly is a good leader

 

[Um the Muse]

Mylene, I know there's no way I could take on this challenge, but I hope you won't mind a few questions anyway.

Why do you say mostly landshnecht and trebs? The UU I understandas it's good at defending your stack and even if it is 25% weaker than maces, that just means you need to do more collateral. But don't catapults do more collateral than trebs? Just thinking out loud, but shouldn't you want a couple of catas to soften up the defenders per city?

My next question is on your screenshot:

Spoiler :

Why did you build your cap on the cows instead of 1W? I can't believe banannas are worth more than cows, a river, and the exchange of a gHill for a pHill.

 

[Mylene]

Sure, Landsknechts beat everything except Crossbows if you get them early.
You can add a crossbow or 2 yourself to take care of that on defense, as they come with machinery too.

If you go engineering, there is no way you can get Maces in time to pull this off.
If the AI has longbows that's the Trebs job, they do a *lot* more damage to cities than Catas.
Catas would be better to damage their SoD on the open field, but with Landsknechts you don't have to fear anything at this time cos they will run around with swords and stuff, or maybe Jumbos which are helpless too.

About the screen

Spoiler :

To speed up the start with a 3f tile, earlier worker = earlier gems and stuff = i figured that is better than a cow. For rushes i do not care about the health bonus, and the cow spot also has a bit more forests. Getting to the ~2 good city spots around fast on Deity is crucial for a rush, you need these key cities.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

With a start like that I'd go for a knight rush if I could somehow get my hands on some horses.

Treb rush is too slow, especially for deity. Hell, I had trouble with it on immortal one time.

 

[lymond]

My - Did you use a bulb approach? I forget what you need for Engineering or I should say...what to avoid.

Hope to see a walkthrough.

AZ - I thought you tried that one on Deity

 

[Noogai]

I got MC from The Oracle, then I built forge and ran engineer in terms of getting GE for machinery/engineering bulb. First I had like +30% changes, but no. At second time I had +50% change, but still no.. Also one annoying guy DoWed me so I had to build archers while getting engineering soon. When I finally got couple landscheckers and trebs, it was already too late to really rush anyone (and would have taken a while more to make stack of them).
I actually lost my first attempt very early, but on the second attempt I beelined archery....

 

[coanda]

The high-cost techs bee-lining Engineering are going to be Metal Casting, Machinery, and Engineering.

A GE has almost no conflicts - just make sure you get Iron Working.
A GS is trickier - you're going to need to get Mathematics, Alphabet, Aesthetics, Iron Working, and Calendar, and you need to not get Code of Laws, Fishing, or Drama. But you might manage to pick up all those techs before you're ready for Engineering, in which case a GS could provide a final bulb.
The other GP are pretty much useless.

 

[huerfanista]

The high-cost techs bee-lining Engineering are going to be Metal Casting, Machinery, and Engineering.

A GE has almost no conflicts - just make sure you get Iron Working.
A GS is trickier - you're going to need to get Mathematics, Alphabet, Aesthetics, Iron Working, and Calendar, and you need to not get Code of Laws, Fishing, or Drama. But you might manage to pick up all those techs before you're ready for Engineering, in which case a GS could provide a final bulb.
The other GP are pretty much useless.

Re: calendar - 'fraid not. You can't get it without sailing, and you can't get that without fishing.

GS bulb path - avoid fishing, meditation. Get Alpha, math, aesthetics. Trade or research construction and IW. 3 GSs will completely bulb MC, machinery, engineering. It's not that hard to do. I've done it several times (just not at deity ). You could maybe oracle MC, but that would give prophet pollution and probably not be faster than just prioritizing scientists.

 

[Mylene]

My - Did you use a bulb approach? I forget what you need for Engineering or I should say...what to avoid.

Hope to see a walkthrough.

AZ - I thought you tried that one on Deity

Yep, ok an open spoiler
If you avoid fishing and grow 2 GS, you can bulb both machinery and engineering.

oops, Huerfanista was quicker

 

[Mylene]

I would not recommend the Oracle, you don't have time for that and it's not worth it with a high commerce start.
If you focus on getting a library in 2 decent food cities and run 2 scientists each as soon as possible, you can get there while most of the AIs are still very backwards. Self tech Aestetics, trade for Alpha and IW, prolly self tech maths and Masonry, then MC and you are through. Construction while you get the forges built.

 

[Noogai]

I would not recommend the Oracle, you don't have time for that and it's not worth it with a high commerce start.
If you focus on getting a library in 2 decent food cities and run 2 scientists each as soon as possible, you can get there while most of the AIs are still very backwards. Self tech Aestetics, trade for Alpha and IW, prolly self tech maths and Masonry, then MC and you are through. Construction while you get the forges built.

Can you use scientists to bulb machinery and engineering?! I thought only great engineers can do that?

 

[Habitus]

Great Scientist Bulbing Order

Writing
Mathematics
Scientific Method
Physics
Education
Printing Press
Fiber Optics
Computers
Laser
The Wheel
Alphabet
Philosophy
Chemistry
Fission
Fusion
Optics
Paper
Astronomy
Biology
Electricity
Flight
Genetics
Compass
Satellites
Aesthetics
Sailing
Calendar
Medicine
Ecology
Advanced Flight
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Engineering <-------------------
Steam Power
Liberalism
Agriculture
Masonry
Bronze Working
Machinery <-------------------
Gunpowder
Refrigeration
Superconductors
Rocketry
Fishing
Combustion
Plastics
Composites
Stealth
Mining
Military Science
Radio
Meditation
Drama
Theology
Music
Civil Service
Democracy
Corporation
Communism
Economics
Hunting
Archery
Animal Husbandry
Construction
Robotics
Monotheism
Mass Media
Horseback Riding
Replaceable Parts
Rifling
Artillery
Future Tech

 

[Noogai]

Cool, so if you have all those techs above Machinery (or you can't research them) you can bulb machinery? Is it really even possible (without screwing up the whole beelining - appereantly [how to spell that?] it is, stupid question but still..)? And where is Code of Laws, can't you bulb that with GS?

 

[Habitus]

Aslong as you avoid Fishing there aren't that many techs you need before Machinery and Engineering are the ones that get bulbed, and if its not on the list then it can't be bulbed by a GS in BTS

 

[Mylene]

Fishing blocks out a lot of techs, without it there is only Maths, Alpha and Aest. to do before Machinery + Engineering.

 

[Mylene]

I didn't have any old saves or screens, so i decided to start a new game to show my opening turns, the barb problem and so on.

Decided to settle on the cow, you might question this move at first.

Spoiler :

But it ensures we get a worker in 12 turns, and the worker doesn't loose a move to reach the corn.
That is already 4 turns saved.
We can now use the 2f2c gems till the corn is farmed, without loosing any growth turns. 22 food needed for the next pop, +3 for 4 turns = 10 left, the corn is finished and we get there in 2 turns.
Little micro, but important on Deity where the barbs always knock on your door shortly before turn 40.

Specially when the next move after mining is BW, for the nice production boost, all early commerce you can squeeze out helps a lot.

Spoiler :

An overview of the known world, we can see 2 spots with good food: The corn NE, and the pigs which should be a safe location.

Next stop, turn 28...around 10 more before barbs can get annoying.
BW is finished and shows a copper close.

Spoiler :

If there would be no copper, we'd need Archery now.
However Archery before BW is always a mistake here, it only takes 4 turns to tech and with BW the production would be on board to get enough archers before the ~turn 40 mark.
Flashback, teching AH early would have cost valuable time and is one more reason why i liked settling on the cow.

Next step is the Wheel to connect copper + city, and another worker before a settler.
The first worker helps chopping him out, then will put a mine on the ph (good with Charly) before he helps roading.
The scout tries to keep the area rid off barb pops

Spoiler :

Worker is done and moves to the forest to chop before starting on the connection.
The mine is finished next turn, a good time now to adopt slavery.

On turn 38 the situation looks like that:

Spoiler :

We are now in the critical phase for barbs, but the copper is almost connected and slavery on board to get out an axe quick. 2 Warriors to hold out ~3 turns before we are safe.
The corn spot seems to be stolen by Rams
Didn't happen in my first game so quick, the scout will check it out (he offered open borders) and see if we can steal it back somehow.
Here i stopped for now

 

[lymond]

ha...gotta love this military advisor screen:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

For some reason I voted Lizzie AP Queen. Anyway, she started two world wars. First with Izzy and second with Toku, who I was getting along well with. Inf fact, I was getting on with just about everyone. Anyway, the auto DOW on Iz actually was a blessing since, even though I was not prepared for it - just a few turns of Engineering - I was going to attack her anyway. Ha....I've never seen an AP lead call for a second war while still at war with the last AP Heathen. Unreal!

Chose the right tech path up to bulbing Machinery and then made the mistake of teching CoL - while waiting for the 2nd GS - which opened the Philo bulb instead of Engineering. I was pissed. One minute I see Engineering as the next bulb in the research screen and next it's Philo. aarrgh. Had to self Tech Engineering which put me off about 10 or so turns. Anyway, I didn't get to it until the early ADs despite teching and trading fairly well.

Techwise, I"m not doing bad and have quite a lead on several AIs, although Sury and Ram are doing well despite being at war with each other and the AP heathens forever. Liz will probably get Lib even though I was first to Paper. I have not been able to set up a GP Farm.

Anyway the Lady Landsknechts (for My) are doing well

attaching save to get pointers from Her Landsknechtess

 

[Mylene]

Very nice, now that's what i like to see
Doesn't look like Izzy will stand a chance with the techs she has, and there is more land for grabs SW.
Looks very winnable for sure, no direct orders needed right now
You might want to consider using the world war madness to take a shot at Rams too before he gets too many gunpower units, he looks tasty.

 

[Mylene]

Not much interest it seems, too bad cos it is a fun rush.
I didn't play on yet cos i did it before and the fun would come from comparing games...
The combination is underrated, sure they are slower than horses but you don't have to stop for a long time.

 

[GKey]

I was lurking with interest.

Don't have time to try it myself, though.

Any updates from the front?