Deity challengers

[Dirk1302]

Monty went for Novgorod, i was just in time to switch slavery and whip an unpromoted axe there, which cost Monty a jag. but NovGorod of course falls. We have 5 workers, i would have preferred some axes/archers, i set them to work connecting st Pet with Moscow via an alternative route, the rest goes chopping wherever possible.

2 turns later Monty sends 3 jags/axe/archer to st Pet. I'm ready though, 3 axes and an archer are waiting and Monty loses all his units barely making a scratch. He left Novgorod undefended in the process and just before he can slip 2 extra archers in i take the city with new axes from Moscow. Don't know if we can defend it long run but at least it creates another diversion, ftm his forces are rather scattered, his biggest stack is 3 units now.

Our position is really dismal though, unit cost is killing, masonry still costs 12 turns to research and we're already halfway researching it. I have to work fur otherwise we're close to or below zero (didn't check). A good moment to hand it over to the next masochist.

 

[Rusten]

Interesting position. I guess we asked for it settling right in his face with creative.
Will have a look tomorrow.

Isn't running 20% science bad? Or did you do some very in-depth calculating? I haven't looked at the save yet, but I imagine we're losing a lot.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Isn't running 20% science bad? Or did you do some very in-depth calculating? I haven't looked at the save yet, but I imagine we're losing a lot.

binary research ... though I don't think it will change things... Good move taking back Novgorod Dirk! I will have a look at the save after work but it looks like over already... (funny how I can be brave in immortal and a real sissy in deity ...)

 

[Dirk1302]

We don't have writing so binary research isn't that interesting. Or is this rounding down significant early game? We could switch to 2F/2C in capital to shave some turns off masonry but it won't change that much in the end. If i'd used bin research i might have decided now to finish writing since defensive lines hold ftm, but in the end it all doesn't matter too much i think, we'll be behind for a long time anyway.

For now we have to fortify our defensive line imo, then settle gold asap. We'll see what happens next. I don't know how we'll get Monty to peace in the future, may have to give Novgorod, this will only be necessary once Monty has cats though since i think we'll have enough defense before.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

We don't have writing so binary research isn't that interesting. Or is this rounding down significant early game?

Rounding down is significant mostly in the early game (losing 1 beaker over 12 is more important than 1 over 1000 )...

For now we have to fortify our defensive line imo, then settle gold asap. We'll see what happens next. I don't know how we'll get Monty to peace in the future, may have to give Novgorod, this will only be necessary once Monty has cats though since i think we'll have enough defense before.

Agreed about the gold. About peace, usually you want to give gold or a small tech, but it will be nearly impossible here. Our only chance is that he techs either alpha or currency, or we get it ourself/from a third party. I assume we are done if we have to start gifting cities to deities

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I almost forgot the roster duty

Dirk -> nicely pushed back the first wave!
Paulus -> time to be brave, and up!
Shyuhe -> contemplative, wondering if he will get to play at least one turn

 

[Duckweed]

Deleted some units and made some change on working tiles and the research is up to 50% now. not that bad though. I think we still have very good chance to win with so much good land. I have faced worse situation in my games.

By the way, we could have the chance to take Monty's border city and give it for peace some time later. Just hold on finishing units for a while before finishing Writing and Masonry.

 

[Dirk1302]

Yes, it could be worse, i haven't checked for warriors/scouts etc. I wouldn't delete better units than that. Some changes could be made to the tiles, lake in capital is obvious. I wouldn't work the fish near Novgorod, maybe we can hold the city as Monty is rather disorganized atm.The possibility of whipping an axe at size 2 helps a bit. Good to see we have some leeway if we really need the research.

I don't think the game is lost yet, if we can make peace with Monty being behind is not such a problem since we have good long term prospects. I have played (and posted here) a deity game where toku ~700 bc declared on me and where i was the one who didn't want to make peace as he sacrificed tons of units on my city without making any progress. He was so weakened 500 AD that i could take 4 cities from him around 700 AD. I was in a better position there (got phants around 500 bc) but it just goes to show that once defensive lines are up it's very hard for the attacker to make progress.

 

[PaulusIII]

I'll see how far I can get. Got the save.

 

[shyuhe]

Monty probably won't give us peace unless we give him alphabet or a city. So it may be a while before we get peace unfortunately.

 

[Dirk1302]

We may get peace if Monty loses lots of units on our cities. If he gets currency we may pay him off.
Or we may give him aest should we go for that and should Monty have alpha.

We can probably always give Novgorod to him, i'd only be inclined to do that if we were to lose a city anyway.

 

[muxec]

Impressive play so far. Good for you Monty loves to suicide units instead of pillaging.

 

[Duckweed]

Yes, it could be worse, i haven't checked for warriors/scouts etc. I wouldn't delete better units than that. Some changes could be made to the tiles, lake in capital is obvious. I wouldn't work the fish near Novgorod, maybe we can hold the city as Monty is rather disorganized atm.The possibility of whipping an axe at size 2 helps a bit. Good to see we have some leeway if we really need the research.

I don't think the game is lost yet, if we can make peace with Monty being behind is not such a problem since we have good long term prospects. I have played (and posted here) a deity game where toku ~700 bc declared on me and where i was the one who didn't want to make peace as he sacrificed tons of units on my city without making any progress. He was so weakened 500 AD that i could take 4 cities from him around 700 AD. I was in a better position there (got phants around 500 bc) but it just goes to show that once defensive lines are up it's very hard for the attacker to make progress.

Yes, Novogorod should work on wheat if we are capable of keeping it.

I wouldn't delete the scout before we settle the gold city. However I'd delete at least 2 workers since we don't need to chop for units now and most of the tiles are improved already. 2 commerce is not trivial atm. In the future, barb will provide them.

 

[Dirk1302]

Hmmm i hate deleting workers, they're just too valuable imo. 2c is not insignificant but even now it's not the end of the world either. If nothing else more roads will make a counter against pillaging Monty invasions easier, they can also road and prechop forested tiles so we can act at once if an emergency comes up. This'll also help in a later stage of the game.They can also cottage tiles so we have more flexibility choosing what tiles to work.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I wouldn't delete the scout before we settle the gold city. However I'd delete at least 2 workers since we don't need to chop for units now and most of the tiles are improved already. 2 commerce is not trivial atm. In the future, barb will provide them.

We make 12 gpt at 0% science (11 working wheat instead of unimproved fish)... I think we have room for more units, if we want to attempt to grab an aztec city for peace... we need 3 turns accumulting gold at the current rate to have enough funds to finish writing. Are we sure we haven't any way to take a city before deleting any more units (I am thinking the workers can always be valuable)? Taking a city can even fund itself the research of writing.

Cheers,
Ras

 

[shyuhe]

I would also prefer to not delete workers. We'll need them once the war ends, and we may need them to fix improvements.

 

[Dirk1302]

We may be able to take an aztec city if Monty's asleep at the wheel again. Ais can really weaken themselves sacrificing loads of units. Problem is that i think Monty will get construction somewhere in the near future and then our job'll get a lot harder.

@Ras, i think Duckweed had deleted some units already when he arrived at that 12 science (not sure though, i'm too lazy to check now).

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Ras, i think Duckweed had deleted some units already when he arrived at that 12 science (not sure though, i'm too lazy to check now).

I looked at the last save posted . There are 4 workers, roading and chopping. do we really want to touch one of those? (knowing we still have a margin of gold)

Cheers

 

[mystyfly]

I'm definitely against deleting workers. There is always something to do for them.

Looking foreward to the weekend and a look at the save.

 

[Duckweed]

Everyone is against deleting workers. If I ask you in another way -- do you want to build another worker for the current empire of 4 workers (6 workers for a 3 city empire in Dirk's save under the situation of paying fee for units)? People care that those extra 2 workers can do a lot things in the following turns. Is it necessary? As long as your citizens can work on the improved tiles, more workers = waste. Sometimes I keep 0.5 workers per city and that is enough. We won't have more than 4 cities for a long time and why do we want to keep them to eat cash?

BTW, I'd also suggest stop chopping forests to units now.