Deity challengers

[obsolete]

bump...


come on.....

 

[PaulisKhan]

Grrr!!!!. Then you should have also been screaming when the decision was made to waste many more tech-turns on useless Archery, when we had copper in the BFC

Since Obs is bored and I meant to respond to this earlier but forgot...


Without knowing the location of copper I'm not convinced that archery was the wrong choice after no close horses showed up. There's a lot of fog out there for barbs to spawn in...

I could certainly learn a lot from seeing it safely fogbusted using only warriors though because deity barbs when I'm near one of the poles still cause me frequent headaches in the early stages.

 

[mystyfly]

Oh I could play any moment but I don't see a clear consensus at all regarding techpath and the mids. I'd rather have proper discussion and hear some other's opinions first.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Oh I could play any moment but I don't see a clear consensus at all regarding techpath and the mids. I'd rather have proper discussion and hear some other's opinions first.

You did well Sorry team, but I was really busy this week and I could not afford much civing time I hope it won't happen again .

As for your next set, I think we don't need to have a consensus on the mids yet as the next set will be most likely devoted to the production of a couple of archers for exploration/fogbusting, and perhaps a settler/worker pair for the gold as Duckweed said (archer to size 5 -> worker *2 -> settler?)... Not sure how much you should play, perhaps till writing?
Do we have a clear tech path? TW -> writing or TW -> pot/Writing?

Quick roster to refresh memories:

Duckweed -> just played!
Mysty -> stealing Dirk's turns
Dirk -> on deck...

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

edit:
@Mysty: rereading your last post, I really don't like delaying writing for masonry, when we are not sure of the returns (mids)... getting a lib, and the OBs seems a much better priority to me. But, by then the Mids window will be close probably... not sure this is the team consensus though

 

[mystyfly]

I don't think we can build a lib before the mids if we want to have a serious go at it. Also I doubt the OB is worth it. But again, I'd like to hear others' opinions...

 

[PaulusIII]

How sure do you think we are of the mids if we go Masonry first? If what Duckweed says is a good estimate, then I doubt we have a proper chance to get them even if we get Masonry quickly.

In that case, I'd suggest Writing and drop the mids if we'd need insane luck to get them.

 

[mystyfly]

I think we have decent chances. There was one of ABCFs challenges with monty qnd the mids were built several times, iirrc the start was quite worse than ours, productionwise. Even if we fail we have so much gold so we can easily rex lots of cities and deficit-research currency or CoL.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I think we have decent chances. There was one of ABCFs challenges with monty qnd the mids were built several times, iirrc the start was quite worse than ours, productionwise. Even if we fail we have so much gold so we can easily rex lots of cities and deficit-research currency or CoL.

In my opinion, it's a gamble if we can't finish them by 1500 bc... It's not any kind of serious data, but in all my immortal/deity games, I've seen gone between 1500 and 1000. I know it depends on the roster of leaders, but as we don't know them yet, I say we are taking unnecessary risks going for them. Plus, by delaying the lib, we delay our academy and/or first bulb, delay OB (again more commerce), and increase the chances of a dow...
It's true if we fail, the gold will be nice...

@team: cast your votes, so Mysty can play this week end!
Paulus and I are for a miss on the mids, Mysty wants to build them...
Dirk, Duckweed, Rusten, Shyuhe, give your opinion!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[mystyfly]

I'd like to build them as it is not usual on deity (obs, don't read this ) and I think we have a chance (I might be repeating myself here...) but I am fine to play a more ordinary game, what is important to me is playing to the team consensus.

 

[Dirk1302]

I more or less gave my opinion already, defense goes first. But i would go masonry before writing and connect stone as it's very early anyway to build a library and relation + factor from ob is a bit marginal/chancy. After masonry it's dependent on the situation for me. If we have enough defense and are not in danger of losing valuable land by all means put turns into Mids. Time it goes is rather variable, the gold at least is welcome. I don't think we should make an all out chopping effort for Mids.

 

[Rusten]

In my opinion, it's a gamble if we can't finish them by 1500 bc... It's not any kind of serious data, but in all my immortal/deity games, I've seen gone between 1500 and 1000.

It goes much earlier on marathon (your speed no?) than it does on normal. I would never expect them to get built close to 1500 on normal immortal (it can happen, but rare). I would be surprised if they were built before 1000 BC.

On deity, yes it's quite possible -- but it goes later than 1500 BC more often than not I believe. You would want to beat 1500 BC if you were to completely go for it. I still rate the chances of getting them as quite good, so I feel a bit like Dirk; build what's urgent and then make an attempt to claim them.

 

[Duckweed]

I more or less gave my opinion already, defense goes first. But i would go masonry before writing and connect stone as it's very early anyway to build a library and relation + factor from ob is a bit marginal/chancy. After masonry it's dependent on the situation for me. If we have enough defense and are not in danger of losing valuable land by all means put turns into Mids. Time it goes is rather variable, the gold at least is welcome. I don't think we should make an all out chopping effort for Mids.

That's also my thought. we'll give mids a try, but not all effort for it, the cash from mids is still good even we fail it. Wheel->mason sounds good.

Edit:
There's not much conflict between whether to go mids or not. We need 15-20 turns to connect stone, so we can produce 2 workers, 1 Axe and 1 settler in this time. I'd suggest start 2 workers after finishing the current archer at size 4.

 

[mystyfly]

Fine then, I'll play soon, tech wheel > masonry > writing. Not sure about another settler I think that might be stretching it a bit... we still have a settler about to settle. I'll try to make sure we don't get overrun by barbs and build some workers.

 

[shyuhe]

I think 4 cities without pottery/writing is stretching it. All the more reason to get some wonder failure cash with stone.

 

[mystyfly]

Playing now...

 

[mystyfly]

I'll add pics later, typing this on my iPhone.

T45 (IHT)
So, I leave research now at he wheel for copper asap. Next techs are masonry and writing.

T46
Settle novgorod, start on a worker as best food tile atm is unimproved wheat.

T49
The AI laugh at us and our discussion... By building the mids 2080BC

Thyt makes me change plans, I take masonry off the queue and replace it wiht fishing. I'm not sure everyone likes it but I find it best as that's the best way to get nov going and start WB scouting asap.

T56
Pop hut for 49g. Also finish fishing and start on writing (13).

T60
Buddhism spreads guess where - novgorod, another reason for that city to be founded asap as its coastal. I immediately convert, monty has once been at annoyed but we never were his WE so he must ready have one.

---

I end here. We need to discuss settling and teching. Since there have been no barb problems and 2 barb cities I finished the rax in moscow as we'll want CR axes to limit casualties. I managed to snatch a barb worker too.

Once unit upkeep really kicks in we can delete the scout.

We are not yet in slavery.

Regarding teching, I think writing - pottery - aest might be best given we find trading partners.

Land overview:

edit: added save and pics.

View attachment Deity Challenge BC-1600.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Dirk1302]

Enough good land. But the 11 unit stack in Tlatelolco means we have to be very serious about defense the next turns. Unless Monty is annoyed with someone else and that enemy has enough tiles bordering Monty to be landtarget as well we'll be the one.

 

[shyuhe]

Agreed, we should send a few axes over as a safety precaution. Hopefully we can OB soon with Monty to investigate his east and figure out his war status.

We have a lot of good land, but it's pretty flat. What are we going to do for production?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I would be surprised if they were built before 1000 BC.

T49
The AI laugh at us and our discussion... By building the mids 2080BC

There you go ... In the game I played yesterday (immortal/normal), they went in 17XX BC too... I guess some AIs really like the pointy thingy (and I play all speeds )

@Mysty: good round... I think you did well going fishing, I would perhaps have done pottery with all the prerequisites for some cottages in St Pet, but we'll do that next I guess.

the bad though: I fear too the stack is for us... what do we do? perhaps finishing masonry to whip some walls is in order in that case? Our two borders cities are on flat lands so hard to defense... thoughts on builds/next techs?

Mysty -> just played...
Dirk -> up!
Paulus -> on deck!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[mystyfly]

You'll notice the road about to be built to st petr; once it's done we can whip settlers there and regrow building axes. Thus farms at st petes are fine. Also fishing is a pottery prereq

As I believe I mentionned, monty was annoyed for a few turns with us. From my previous monty-experience you automatically become his WE
once he's annoyed which wasn't the case so he'll already have one which means we should be quite safe atm. A scouting WB is a priority.

Once we meet more AIs we see when monty is in WHEOOH. I think we'll be able to send some axes to take those barb cities (pillage their improvements!).