Deity Domination Help!

[Eyesonme805]

I just can't seem to get passed Modern era if I'm lucky enough to make it there. I played as China and was doing very well. Gold was 2k Happiness was about 3-9 depending if I traded off my luxuries. I just don't understand as soon as I declared war and took a city almost all the civilizations declared war on me. When I got my Chu ko nu I took over One city that was owned by Brazil then 4 Civs declared war on me even though they were not allied with Brazil. Brazil is Southwest of me, Shaka Northeast, Byzantium Southeast and Japan was West of me. I decided not to take Rio because Shoshone declared war on me as well and they were West of Brazil so I eventually made peace with everyone and I noticed that Shaka was started to spam cities like literally every where, in the worst and most annoying places and right next to my cities. I knew that I had to take out Shaka or at least slow him down because he was about to go into a snowball affect and just own everyone. I tried to get Atilla and Japan to declare war on Shaka but they didn't want to and were afraid so I went to war with Shaka by myself and was doing quite well until Byzantium and Japan declared war on me and I couldn't fight 3 battles at once so I made peace with Shaka and fought off the other two. But by the time I was ready to fight Shaka again it was too late he had already built cities surrounding my cities and he was in modern age and had bombers so my Artillery was useless at that point, I was just easy pickings for Shaka. All the cities I took from Shaka I had to sell to England because she was my only Ally and she paid me like 200 gold per turn for some crappy cities but she would not go to war with me and to make it worst Shoshone declared war on me again and that was Game Over for me. I also dropped 1k on a city state with a lot of units but they got owned by Shaka and he came at me full force with all his units.

Basically I'm confused why no Civs would go to war with me but would declare war on me when I didn't do anything to offend them. I understand who ever was allied with Brazil was mad that I went to war against them but like the Shoshone was at war with Brazil. Just confused why the AIs wouldn't want to help me stop a Civ that is just owning everyone. For no reason Atilla, Assyria and Poland also declared war on me and they were not even close to my cities... The last time I let a Civ spam cities and own everyone I eventually was his next target and didn't stand a chance. Earlier in the game Shaka was at war with all the Civs that declared war on me later in the game that made me lose.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Some possible answers

• Some AIs might be friends with an AI you attacked. Even without a full DoF they might have good enough relations that they will hate you for attacking their friend. It's hard to tell when there is no DoF of course.
• They covet your lands. It's one of the most likely cause for wars. They might covet your land for a long time without DoWing you. It can be because you are strong enough to make them cautious or because they really like you. Now you declare war on someone else. All of a sudden you are considered less dangerous because you have to fight a 2 front war if they DoW you (the AI knows this) and they like you slightly less (unless they hated the AI you attacked). It might be enough to make them DoW you.
• Warmonger hate. When you DoW someone, your warmonger score will increase. When you take a city, your warmonger score will increase. If it gets high enough, some civilizations will start to hate you and might DoW you (especially if asked by another civ), that's probably what happened when Theodora DoWed you (she's one of the most peaceful leaders). I suggest you search for warmonger score in this forum for more information on how it's calculated, the math is rather complex but to make it simple : the less cities a civ has, the worst it is for you warmonger score. Wiping a civ completely is great for making all other AIs you enemies.

 

[Eyesonme805]

Even if Shaka has denounced them and had gone to war with them multiple times? They will still hate me? When I was at war with Brazil I bribed Shaka to attack Japan and Byzantium so I could focus on Brazil. I'll check out the war monger stuff, Does your War monger still stay the same if you sell the city?

 

[consentient]

I think that you have to accept that being a warmonger will make you very unpopular. If you want to win a Domination victory, then in general you should aim to perform a sweep of the map, sniping capitals as you go.

The basic formula for staying on as good as terms with the AI as you can is to get your next victim to seem (in their eyes) as totally awful. So bribe them to DoW multiple opponents, then the next turn Denounce them, and the next turn DoW them.

Continue trading with the others and they shouldn't hate you too much until half the capitals are yours. After that they will hate you, won't pay much for luxes, and COULD DoW you, but their armies will not be as strong as yours, especially if you went Full Honor.

Also, don't keep cities you don't need. If it's not a capital, or if it doesn't have one of the 5 best Wonders, raze it. It's not worth the effort.

 

[beetle]

OP, I would ask that you clarify if you are trying for Dom VC or just getting dominated?

I am very much struggling with Deity, both SV and Dom, but your timing seems very difficult to me. For a Deity Dom run, I think you need to start before XB. Even if you are not really aiming for a Dom VC, and just want the land, then I think you want to DoW earlier and maybe finish off your target with XB. The hate for taking a city from a small civ is pretty harsh, so if the DoW is at least in the previous era, that helps.

Even if Shaka has denounced them and had gone to war with them multiple times? They will still hate me?

Yes, they can hate Shaka and have plenty of hate for you too!

When I was at war with Brazil I bribed Shaka to attack Japan and Byzantium so I could focus on Brazil.

Bribing Shaka to attack is good. A few turns after that, you attack Shaka. There is no good way for you to attack Brazil unless you can get others to denounce Brazil first. Oda should also be easy to bribe into fighting others.

Does your War monger still stay the same if you sell the city?

Yes. The only way to lower warmonger score is to liberate cities. Warmonger scores wears off over time, and early warmongering is pretty easily forgiven.

 

[consentient]

Beetle is right. With China, start warring with Archers and then upgrade them all the way to CKNs. If for any reason 15 of those (and a few horses, natch) won't win you the game, beeline to Artillery and/or Navigation.

 

[beetle]

15!?! No wonder I cannot get anywhere!

 

[tarafran]

f it doesn't have one of the 5 best Wonders, raze it. It's not worth the effort.

What's the best 5 wonders?

 

[consentient]

15!?! No wonder I cannot get anywhere!

In order to quickly annihilate the opposing troops and crack the capital you will need a lot of units. Typical scenario is 5 firing on the city, 5 nearby healing (hopefully with March), 5 dealing with incoming troops from other cities, etc.

Watch Acken's China LP for pretty much perfect warmongering on Deity with China.

What's the best 5 wonders?

The only wonders I consider worth puppeting for are:

ND, Pyramids, SoZ, GW, CI, Machu Pichu, FP, Sistine, Big Ben, SoL, or Prora

Of those the 5 best (for warmongers) are clearly:-

ND, Pyramids, SoZ, CI and Machu Pichu

Usually Big Ben is one you build yourself. An AI going Commerce is rarer than rocking-horse droppings.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Usually Big Ben is one you build yourself. An AI going Commerce is rarer than rocking-horse droppings.

I thought I heard them all but this is a new one for me but what a classic saying that I was unaware of.... rocking horse droppings!! Just classic!

 

[consentient]

I thought I heard them all but this is a new one for me but what a classic saying that I was unaware of.... rocking horse droppings!! Just classic!

Usually a less polite word than droppings is used. It's a slang term, originating in London probably.