Deity Game - Playthrough - 1

But it's river cows. That's a 7-yield tile. Having a high production tile is also very useful in the beginning to pump out warriors. It's only after granaries that the food yield completely outshines the production yield. I really don't understand why you'd want to tech BW over AH with this start.
 
Well this topic goes back and forth, on other starts i liked AH for cows and peoples voted BW first ;)
I doubt there's a clear wrong or right with that decision.
When you look back, Kaitzilla i.e. also liked BW first so iam sure we had our thoughts on that.
You had different ones, fair enuf.
 
I didn't mean to be disrespectful or to be beating a dead horse. I'm just curious. I read yours and Kaitzilla's posts and you both just mention copper as the a reasoning for BW. Wouldn't it then be better to look for horses while at the same time unlocking a key power tile for the early game?

edit: but it's no biggie, feel free to move on.
 
Oh i know, i like that you are discussing it cos it's always interesting so no worries.
My main reason for bw first is slavery with +9 food tiles, and chopping compliments.
In my mind, whips and chops are invisible power tiles so i guess that would be my best explanation.

And i would really be a bit worried about worker turns, it's some time until i could connect corn, rice & cows.
I suppose you would improve cows first over rice.
 
Scouting east will be desired, since we know what lies ahead in all the other directions. I also hate going into the jungle, even if I can dream up a scenario where all that nastiness is cleared, especially with all that river titles.

Usually my biggest fear in Deity when I tackle it from time to time is getting boxed in. I don't know what's worse... getting boxed in or dealing with barbarians. They are equally undesirable.

Not knowing whether there will be horse or iron, I think the jumbo plains hill is a priority, though I don't like settling right in his face so early.... hmm.
 
Surprise poster, how are you doing Gwaja ~~

Genghis would come either way, if we cannot grab the Jumbos he will ;)
Hill border cities are nice against such AIs.
More land & barbs is usually better than warmongers close lol.

edit: doing good :)
Very true, starting in the middle is often very difficult..much better being in some corner.
For Elepult not many cities are needed, so boxed in would not concern me too much.
Being attacked before yup that's a problem ~~
 
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I am always around you know... just not posting much. ^_^ Doing good... and you? ^_^

True about the jumbos. What makes me nervous about this map is that it seems we are located right in the middle of this landmass. If we have AIs in all four directions and we are sandwiched in the middle, this could really get interesting.
Because at some point, we will have to decide whether to be happy with teching peacefully with 6 cities, or going after somebody. If my estimation of being smack dead in the middle of everybody is correct, then playing smart diplomacy will work wonders as well. And lastly, we would hate to be in a position where we would have nothing but archers to work with. Some offensive capability would be nice.

My guess is though that we wouldn't have much time to twiddle our thumbs here. Move too slow, and we will most likely be boxed in. And I think that's asking for trouble, especially at Deity, no?

I may just give this map a shot after all. Looks more fun than some of the maps I cooked up before. ^_^
 
Looks like good advice to me.

Revolt to slavery immediately, tech Hunting, chop and 2pop whip a settler, scout the pigs site, and get ready to settle elephants.

Ragnar has copper, so he will be going to war early once he builds a few Axes.

If justinian is to the east, settling Pigs before him will be tough. He expands very fast, especially with religion.
 
To Turn 33
bit of a surprise....
Spoiler :

Justinian is not to the East - it's Tokugawa! Justinian is to the South. Before I can get the settler out, Tokugawa takes the pigs ~ turn 32. Whipped + chopped to finish the Settler turn 33.

upload_2017-12-3_18-24-17.png


* Found more jumbos down South next to rice, and it's on the shore of a lake. Probably a 1-tile lake.
* Seems like finished AH is still my best bet - then maybe on to wheel / pottery? with PHI, I don't think I need to rush Writing to get libraries, I'm going to get boxed in here, so I think getting out settlers faster is probably better.
* Heading to pottery gets me granaries and commerce, but writing gets me towards a bulb - maybe headed to math to get towards elepult.



upload_2017-12-3_18-27-3.png





Next steps:

  • Probably want to still settle 3N1W. Gets me a hill city next to Mongolia to get the Ivory.
  • Next will need to grab that site to the East. I like the flat plain that is wrapped around on 3 sides by river, but it still leaves the green cow in the 2nd ring, with no options for border pops anytime soon.
  • After AH, do Wheel / Pottery. Should be pretty well discounted at this point. Writing is still way too expensive pre-cottage. Looks like I'm getting 10 commerce a turn, but 17 into AH, so, pretty much everyone has it.
  • I'll need to back away from the 1-star barbarian archer, and hope he walks away. I can't afford to lose that site.
 
AHHHHHH

Welp, nice knowing you. :salute:

I can't recall anyone winning on Deity surrounded by 3 warmongers and Civ 4's strongest AI (Justinian is tied with Zara for that honor).

Once your borders touch 8 of their land tiles, it will really rile them up with negative diplo border tensions (especially Genghis) and increase their odds of picking you to DOW.

============

Mmm, your capital might be able to steal the pigs starting around turn 50.

Barbs are looking like less and less of a problem, but they will still come racing into your borders once the average number of cities in the world reaches 3 among all the world's civs.
 
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I'll do my best until it's over. Might as well see how bad it gets.


Looks like barb Archers will be coming mainly from south and northwest? hmm
The tight Pangea is helping you with barbs, but has a real danger of the AI choking you to death in the middle of the map.
Archery is highly recommended with hilltop cities under these conditions.

It might be possible to turtle up with 3 hilltop cities and a pigs city if you can steal it.

Then found and gift a city to Tokugawa in the jungle near his capital for some +diplo. (hold down Control to open trade screen before Writing)
As long as the city is closer to his capital than anyone else's capital, it will give you +1.5 Liberation bonus diplo.

There is a big difference between Pleased and Cautious with warmongers.
The odds of them picking you to DOW go way down.

Giving away 3 cities to get to Pleased with 3 warmongers feels ultra painful though. :(
They tend to be 'Worst Enemies' to the good civs and you'd get -4 "trading with worst enemies" for a while.

The alternative is 5 Archers in each hilltop city with Walls.
They warmongers are so aggressive that they have no problem throwing armies away attacking with bad odds.
That works until they get catapults and then bombard you to 0% defenses and then kill you.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
haha, okay. i'm not used to founding cities just to give them away.

played to turn 50.

Spoiler :

I made one mistake and put a chop into a warrior instead of a settler.

upload_2017-12-3_20-28-45.png





got my 3 hilltop cities. AH reveals Horses 3N2W. Ragnar is plotting. The Mongolians are lower on score, and to the North, so maybe they have some bad tundra land. Mongolians don't seem to have copper, as I only see archery units. Same with Tok. I opened borders with Rag, and he has some axes in Haithabu. The bad news is that Ragnar, Ghengis and Tokogawa are all buddies. The good news is that Ghengis and Tok are worst enemy of Ramses. Bad news is Ragnas is plotting, and he feels the same about me and Ramses.

...was hoping that I'd get a fgn trade route with OB with Ghengis, but none of his cities are connected to the river.
 
But it's river cows. That's a 7-yield tile. Having a high production tile is also very useful in the beginning to pump out warriors. It's only after granaries that the food yield completely outshines the production yield. I really don't understand why you'd want to tech BW over AH with this start.

Bronze Working before Animal Husbandry gives you a faster 1st Settler if you use the chop.
The following Settlers are also faster with continues chops.
New cities can also grow to Size 2, get a chop, and then whip out a Worker taking some of the whip anger away from the capital.
Who wants to wait for Workers?! :crazyeye:

And Axes are stronger than Chariots.
Plus, being able to whip out 2 Warriors in an emergency instead of steadily producing them saves gold.

If the Leader was Philo/Creative with half-price Libraries like Pericles, I'd have probably chosen Animal Husbandry over Bronze Working.
Same with either Egypt.
 
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Interesting stuff,
edit i missed that you have open borders with Rags..
okay he has some Axes close, then no way around archery :(

Library in Wash is so important for your teching, and also Phi (maths bulb is really good in this situation). Too bad that we now need Archery before writing.

Careful with unit maintenance, can be bad on deity.
$ button is your friend there :)
Checking how many free units you receive (workers count, sadly).
Finishing more warriors can be too costly, and it's often better to delay.
 
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haha, okay. i'm not used to founding cities just to give them away.

played to turn 50.

Spoiler :

I made one mistake and put a chop into a warrior instead of a settler.

View attachment 482156




got my 3 hilltop cities. AH reveals Horses 3N2W. Ragnar is plotting. The Mongolians are lower on score, and to the North, so maybe they have some bad tundra land. Mongolians don't seem to have copper, as I only see archery units. Same with Tok. I opened borders with Rag, and he has some axes in Haithabu. The bad news is that Ragnar, Ghengis and Tokogawa are all buddies. The good news is that Ghengis and Tok are worst enemy of Ramses. Bad news is Ragnas is plotting, and he feels the same about me and Ramses.

...was hoping that I'd get a fgn trade route with OB with Ghengis, but none of his cities are connected to the river.

No trade route with Genghis on river without Sailing, sorry.

Good work getting Open Borders with Genghis and Ragnar as fast as possible and scouting Ragnar with a Warrior.
Ragnar plotting war is concerning.

He won't target another warmonger usually since they are all Pleased with each other.
I'd give 40% odds he is targeting you (your power ratio is much lower than others), 30% Justinian, and 30% Egypt.
If you see 5 Axes heading in your general direction, get 5 Archers onto hilltop Boston as fast as possible.
The Archers will have 6:strength: freshly produced, 6.75:strength: when fortified for 5 turns, and 7.5:strength: if Ragnar attacks fortified Archers from across the river.
It should be able to win against 5.5:strength: Axes.
The DOW won't occur until the enemy stack steps into your borders.

Your capital is going to pop borders next turn, so there is a good chance you can steal those Pigs from Tokugawa for a few turns until he pops borders in his mystery city.
I wish you could see if it has Hinduism in it (or a Monument if you zoom in and squint), but you can't. :sad:
Placing a city there to take advantage of the pigs is a gamble that probably isn't worth it.
Sharing a long border with Toku will just infuriate him.
Currently, if he attacks it will probably be against your capital, and the +40% cultural defenses means he won't have a chance if he uses mainly Chariots.

Roads to connect your 3 cities means 5 or 6 Archers can move to whichever city is under attack.
Roads will also give you trade routes when connected to neighbor civs (isolated capital hurts!), and religion spreads will start to happen which might change your diplo situation to not so deadly.
So I'd recommend Archery, then tech The Wheel for Roads and Chariots?
Try to make 1 or 2 Chariots before Genghis' culture pressure takes your Horses away until you get Libraries.

Rivers connect cities inside your borders without Sailing, so road Horses to connect 2 of your cities to each other.
Road Cows or 1E of capital to connect to river which will connect to your other cities.
Road north or northwest of Horses to connect to one of Genghis' roads to get trade routes.
Road to Tokugawa's pigs to be able to trade resources with him and maybe get Hindu spread.
Don't road to Ragnar until you are sure he is targeting someone else.

The maintenance on Deity is too high to support too many units with only 3 cities ugh.
Might have to delete your Warriors when the good units get produced to be able to keep teching?
Deity only supports 5 units, so that means only the 2 Workers and 3 Warriors are free.
Every unit past that is -1:gold: per turn until your cities get larger population and supports more units for free.

Ragnar only trades strategic resources when Friendly, so he won't be trading away any 2nd Coppers he acquires for Elephants + Horses. :sad:

Later on, Libraries and Scientists making Great Scientists for Math/Alphabet/Philosophy will keep you in the tech game until you can get Horse Archers and start fighting back a little.
You won't be able to really push back until War Elephants and Catapults.
 
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Genghis feels like the longterm nightmare here.

Ragnar or Toku might attack others, but Genghis is at the north part of the continent with Ragnar, Toku, and the human as close neighbors.
Worse, there is about to be a long border and border tensions.
Genghis will just attack SittinDown every time the 10 turn Peace Treaty is up until he gets the Jumbos + Horses, then it is game over.

Just have to last until Math and then bribe Genghis to attack someone else.
Can't plot war if he's at war.

Maybe get super lucky and Genghis has no Copper/Iron/Horses.
 
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Spoiler :


Just as I was afraid.... my first lazy attempt and I am already boxed in by 2080 BC, even though I managed to get 2 cities up and have the 3rd settled in place.

And not only that....

Civ4ScreenShot0012 by Emily Lorraine, on Flickr

Yeah... GK is gonna declare on me next turn for sure. I mean... seriously...?

Yep. Hunting -> Archery is a must. Barbarians are no issue here. Getting smart land grab and archers up for defense is a big priority.

I am gonna try again.

 
Anyways..not the best deity learning map lol,
more like Gwaja made you will die!!! scenarios ;)

I remember Kossin's all warmongers map with SB,
but that was more generous than this one tbh (had not much trouble winning there, stone and gold mine i remember).
 
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