[DEITY] Leader Mao in: "How come China got so big?!"

[ila100]

Mao may be a bug IMHO.

 

[shakabrade]

@Habitus

Spoiler :

I don't think killing fish would be wise. You'd kill 7 for few hammers that way, and that's too much. Don't forget you can always whip food, and for much more hammers. Your unit pumping place no.1 is capitol with 3 food resources and good production. It will grow faster than your happy cap and it will be good for it to produce settler/worker, something to slow it down.

Did you consider any wonder to pursue?

I am against the wheel. It's not like warriors can't take care of barbs. Especially ones fortified on hill with vegetation. You'd also be forced to produce axes instead of warriors. If you research sailing, your future cities will still be connected, and if you want to connect that stone to that empire, simply settle on it (you also don't kill fish). Sailing will also enable you to produce LH for +2 .

And I am just curious, now that you have revealed a bit more land around starting location, can you think of any spot that would enable you to have maximum number of cities there instead of SIP?

@ila100

Mao may be a bug IMHO.

Don't get it...

 

[Mylene]

Oki..

Spoiler :

Well that's good news
I was hoping for some Choki action, win or lose

Spoiler :

Think it's okay that i set up my GP farm meanwhile, i hope i can manage some more trades for Calendar (did get Maths, Alpha and some small stuffs) and open up engineering bulbing at least, am almost sure they will have longbows so i'll better get some Trebs too.

 

[Mylene]

Hmms..time to hold for some opinions

Spoiler :

On teching. Machinery would be ~11 turns, but with 75% chance i will get a GS in 4 turns, 25% chance GE. I could do Compass, hope i can trade for Calendar, and bulb instead.
Harbors are also very fine buildings with exp.

My Capi:

Spoiler :

Shanghai:

Spoiler :

Techs:

Spoiler :

 

[ila100]

@shakabrade
Mao may be best of the best.

 

[shakabrade]

@shakabrade
Mao may be best of the best.

Best leader? Please do share a few more words to explain your other few words. Otherwise I'll consider this a spam.

If any other people get ila's mysterious code, please do share my stupidity with me.

Edit: Sorry ila100, for accusing you of spam. I have seen your other posts and you honestly state your english is poor. I am still not clear with meaning of your words. Maybe you want to say this may be best thread here?
I will no longer put words in your mouth. I hope I'll be able to fully understand what you meant.


@Mylene

Spoiler :

Yeah, fishing ruins GS Engineering bulb and Machinery until Calendar. That is one more reason why this is a fun map. You cannot avoid fishing. Good idea getting Calendar. It will probably be available soon. There are at least 3 civs having some jungle and possibly some calendar resources, so it should be a priority to them. It seems Russia could build you MoM.

 

[ila100]

@shakabrade
Yes, I think Mao may be the Best leader. Using him may be a little bit cheating .
sorry, I can't explain my opinion clearly.

 

[shakabrade]

@ila 100

I don't think he is nowhere that good. Almost all creative and financial leaders are better. He is expansive and you can see that you don't build many workers here, nor cities nor granaries. Besides, I random leaders and maps and disqualify all creative, financial and philospohical leaders because they feel far more easier to play with than Mao. This game was my personal game but was so much fun I had to share it. Besides, Fishing kills Machinery bulb so Cho-ko-nus are less powerful here simply because they appear a bit later. And this map never guaranteed any iron.

 

[Mylene]

So...seems iam too late for a party with Lizzy -.-
Will attack Ramsy instead now, no longbows yet, and pick on Rags who will take this city later he seems rather weak.

Spoiler :

Things are going okay otherwise, i researched Optics to make contact with other Civs before going towards engineering, and getting out units is no biggie.
Funny how i got all religions but Jud..

 

[Mylene]

You are so evil Nico, first Civ on other landmasses i met is obviously..

Spoiler :

Toku

 

[shakabrade]

You are so evil Nico, first Civ on other landmasses i met is obviously..

Spoiler :

Toku

Spoiler :

Hey, hey, as I already said, this was random game, random AIs. But I hope everyone will have a hard time on this map, so I am a bit evil. With that being said, I am sad your Ramses didn't found Judaism and terrorize your war efforts with AP, and am a bit disappointed by tech pace but at least you have stronger Catherine and she always gives headaches. And, yeah, you didn't catch a religion so it'll be harder to whip.

 

[shakabrade]

As is already said, I'll give my screenies when someone of you gets to my checkpoints. Please try not to look at them but rather play the game until the said date since I'd like my own game to be motivation for you. Mylene got past 50AD so here they are:

Spoiler :

My empire. So you see how settling PH maximized number of cities. I didn't go for usual approach with setting GP farm and all normal stuff, but I did go for GLH. As Mylene said, GLH is always a gamble, well, not on this map. You can see in demographics on turn 1 noone but us started coastal. So GLH is guaranteed. Empire was a bit missmanaged, but hey, I played this game very quickly while watching football game so I think I did pretty well. I guess I didn't believe this game could be successful.


Egypt with shrine with at least +25gpt. And almost all wonders. Unknown civilization built Colossus so we can expect them to be advanced too once they get in contact with everyone. There's no such thing as a free lunch.


Technologies. Isn't it charming how England will have Liberalism ~400AD, and how everyone but Ragnar got Feudalism long ago. Ragnar attacked Ramses and Ramses bribed Cathy in and everyone is in love with each other but Ragnar and trade techs happily. And they are here virtually with no tech trades with me. But at that point, I didn't care too much. I accepted the game and only wanted to die with honor. I know I can kill more advanced foes and so I went for Engineering. But first I had to get Monarchy for happiness and some diplo bonus.

Edit: Next checkpoint is 600AD.

 

[Habitus]

@Habitus

Spoiler :

I don't think killing fish would be wise. You'd kill 7 for few hammers that way, and that's too much. Don't forget you can always whip food, and for much more hammers. Your unit pumping place no.1 is capitol with 3 food resources and good production. It will grow faster than your happy cap and it will be good for it to produce settler/worker, something to slow it down.

Did you consider any wonder to pursue?

I am against the wheel. It's not like warriors can't take care of barbs. Especially ones fortified on hill with vegetation. You'd also be forced to produce axes instead of warriors. If you research sailing, your future cities will still be connected, and if you want to connect that stone to that empire, simply settle on it (you also don't kill fish). Sailing will also enable you to produce LH for +2 .

And I am just curious, now that you have revealed a bit more land around starting location, can you think of any spot that would enable you to have maximum number of cities there instead of SIP?

Spoiler :

If i knew what i knew now I'd of Settled 1N of Pigs, then i get a city 3S, Plains Hill between Copper+Rice and a 4th on Stone.

While at work yesterday I decided against The Wheel and to go Sailing, for same reasons you said (ie warriors should be fine and cities will be connected anyway)
If i go Mids after TGL (TGL and Colossus where ones i was considering) then i don't mind settling on Stone, otherwise, Stone or 1SE like i said just seem to take so long to be productive while on Rice is useful straight away. The loss of 7 thou is why i stopped as its a pretty big cost to settling there.

Also i don't have hunting so i could still make warriors over Axes if i felt like it with The Wheel, not that I think I'm going that route now Considering an Obs style settle lots of GP with Rep from Mids now, no IND means I'd likely only try for stone wonders thou.

 

[Mylene]

This was easily one of the most challenging games i played so far

Spoiler :

You would not believe how many units Ramsy had, and how long he did not capitulate.
No engineering, but Nationalism and building Taj while fighting

There was everything, like Cathy switching religions and me had to follow.
Constant fear of Ramsy peace vassaling. Counter attacks with loads of Catas and HAs.
Defying "end war" 3x.

I hope i can get some fun soon, with my Riders of Rohan taking over cos this was sooo exhausting

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[shakabrade]

@Mylene

Damn girl, impressive show and that'll probably be some impressive victory.
But if you really like fun and challenging game (which is not only due to RNG, but due to my sloppy one and a half hour play until 600AD), play my game from the next save I'll provide once I get back home and once you win your game. I'd really like to test your skills, and hopefully learn something in the process. So far, I'm impressed.


Edit:

@Habitus

Spoiler :

If i knew what i knew now I'd of Settled 1N of Pigs, then i get a city 3S, Plains Hill between Copper+Rice and a 4th on Stone.

And why not 1N of copper for capitol? You'd have two food resources you can get with just one technology and wouldn't be forced to go for AH so Early. Settling on plains hill gives you +1 in your capitol and helps you get workboats and workers out faster (Mao is expansive so you get extra for every fourth ). Your border pop would also ease food sharing for city 2S of pigs so that city would be much faster while also providing fish for 1N of pigs if needed and your stone city can whip a monument while growing on rice for which he wouldn't need border pop. Hope this was kind of advice you were hoping for when you joined. If you ever feel you could do better with different approach, I have no objections to reload/restart. Duckweed himself said that's the best way to learn stuff and that is your goal here.

By TGL you mean The Great Library, or The Great Lighthouse? If you mean The Great Lighthouse, I was once corrected people use GLH and GLib here instead to avoid confusion.

I missed that you still can build warriors instead of spearmen.

People always mention Obsolete style, but I never managed to find any of his games with valid screenshots. It is like his pictures expired or got deleted. If anyone can share any link to thread with valid pictures, please do.

Good luck!

 

[Jester Fool]

@ Mylene : Wow! Glad you are on team PR. Hate to play *against* you. (side note: I knew this map was way beyond my skill level. )

 

[ila100]

@shakabrade
Expansive leaders may be better than creative, financial and philospohical leaders, IMHO.

 

[shakabrade]

Mylene forces me again to release my save and screenshots.

Spoiler :

So what happend in those 21minutes of gameplay from 50AD to 600AD.
Well, I am still backward and unable to get monopoly on anything to trade around. But good news is that my WFYABTA is unscratched . Somehow, this game turned into no tech trading for me. No, wait, I believe I traded Engineering for Civil Service. Otherwise, almost no tech trade. However, there were some good news. Ragnar is in war with Cathy and Ramses. I like when they fight and soften themselves for me. This is my window of opportunity. But wait, why didn't I whip those forges yet?!
The plan for the future was getting temples and monasteries with their +2 from AP, then forges, and then whipping trebs, pikes, chokis and maces in all cities but buro capitol (That is also a reason why I built Moai in it) while running Theocracy for some level 3 units, especially trebs who gain so much with CR2. And yeah, cities are fully grown = large whip potential.

Screenies:

@Jester Fool
Why don't you join? Shadowing hard games is the best way of learning stuff cause you can directly compare your with winning tactics. Who knows, majbe you don't lose at all.

@ila100
I'd like you to elaborate that if you can. It is just that I don't regard expansive as much as it is generally regarded. Maybe because I don't build many workers in my games so that bonus is neglible. I just can't think of any scenario in which your statement could be correct. Only creative, philo and financial make me break 300bpt at 1AD in peaceful games, and also make some super early rushes, which also become viable with financial and creative since you recover quickly. Expansive doesn't have so many uses. And I didn't even mention how powerful Spiritual trait is.

Edit: Next update from me is 1645AD. I was under so much adrenaline I have overwritten the save before. Hopefully you all know about Event log, so you'll be able to see some information about the past there. And I guess I'll still remember some stuff to write about.

 

[Mylene]

Thanks guys ~~
I might do that Shaky, AIs in your game look more balanced.
Rags only 3 cities in mine was surprising, and he did never attack Cathy she must have dominated him
I think this shows why Pyras are even more powerful than GLH when being rather boxed in, great peoples are just so good and this would be an aaawesome map for showing Ind+Phi

Hmms forgot, i should add that Lizzy being pressured and vassaled early slowed them down.
Tech pace in your game seems much faster, i can still get Lib now soon which is a bit crazy
Also funny, Rags teched Edu as first AI and could have stolen Lib by now if he had gotten a Philo trade, did not expect that with only 3 cities.

 

[Habitus]

@shakabrade

Spoiler :

Lighthouse, i seem to switch between TGL and GLH for some reason i don't even know but always use GLib for Great Library
1N of Copper is the Plains Hill right? If so that was 2T to settle, probably the only reason i decided against it when i posted last time. In game I'd of taken longer to think about it and probably would of agreed with you.

Most of Obs games with anything but the finishing SS are old now, and whatever he used to host the SS isn't around. Obs style is basically settling GP in your cap with Rep from Mids, you don't really care what GP it is so go for any wonder, and the Cap basically becomes a super city, esp after CS with settle Priests