Deity of Random - Try 1

[Snaaty]

Well, the other option would be:

Everybody plays up to round 4 (let´s make it turn 100 then) and we vote then... ...I don´t really mind.

 

[Rusten]

It's not a big issue for me either, the majority decides, but I suggest we play at least 30 more turns (up to 70 in total, but 100 works too)) before we start removing saves.

 

[CellKu]

Well, I tried to comment on the games, but have to admit it is not easy. Differences are either still minor or hard to judge with respect to their longterm effects. So, I do understand Rusten's and Flo's vote for having a few more turns. Perhaps Snaaty's suggestion to play up to turn 100 is the best. That way, we have more data to judge on.

 

[Snaaty]

Rule 1:
Round 1 - 4:
All players play round 1, then we discuss the saves and go on with the best 3 saves (worst save and player drop out). We vote for this pretty easy:
Each player has 3 votes, 3,2,1 Point and he can´t vote for his own save
Then 3 players play round 2, all 4 vote again, we go on with the best 2 saves in round 3, vote again, then the player who dropped out first picks the save and plays round 4.
Like this we should make sure, we have the best possible start

Rule 1 is changed to:
All players play round 1, 40 turns (played)
All players play round 2, 30 turns
All players play round 3, 30 turns
After round 3, we vote like described above

Timeline:

Round 2:
Ends Saturday

Round 3:
Ends Tuesday

VOTING: Wednesday

 

[Flo7]

Change of rule is fine with me.
I had a look at your games and it would have been really hard to rank them, pretty similar still.

@ Snaaty and Rusten
Thanks for your corrections concerning the GLH. I thought the boni for the trade routes apply only when it is intercontinal trade, (= if the landmasses are separated by ocean and not by cost only).

I am curious how the colossus will effect my economy ( If I can get it). If the GLH is way stronger I am happy to proceed with another save...

@ all concerning city placement.
What is your estimate... will there be a couple of happly resources on the neighbour islands?
I somehow doubt it. Climate is warm and dry (=> dessert) instead of warm and humid (=> jungle). So probably no calendar resources.
That would also mean that we can only support city size 4 (5 with monarchy) in the beginning ( I doubt that we will found many religions). If so we should consider founding rather two cities (as Rusten proposed) than just one good city. What do you think here?

When does the colony maintenance kick in? Up from 4 cities on another landmass?

 

[Rusten]

Colonial maintenance kicks in when you have two cities on the same landmass/island (which the capital is not on) and increases for every city. The Forbidden Palace removes colonial maintenance (for the landmass it's built on), and so does state property (everywhere).

You're right about a possible lack of calendar resources, but at least there should be silk. Silk is often found both north and south unlike the others. I never played an arid map before, so I'm not sure what the center will look like.

PS. I support the new rules

 

[Nares]

Lurker's comment: seems everything was covered.

 

[Snaaty]

Continental upkeep gets only high when you have MORE then 2 cities on ONE island (you can have 20 cities without paying much, when there are 10 islands with 2 cities each)

...

Thing is that I think we will have problems getting any good production cities up. Getting many cities shouldn´t be the main problem, there are very likely quite some islands and plenty of seafood out there.

...

Better to spread the cities over several islands, then you can better cope the periode when merk kicks in. Two of your own cities with size 10 or so will generate internal trade of 4 (I think)

...

I hope we can trade for Monarchy pretty early (IF we meet AI´s). Else we need to researchit. Then happiness shouldn´t be such a big issue.

...

But this is only my opinion, lets see how things turn out

...

EDIT:

Oh, something that just came to my mind:
Building only 2 cities on initial conti would also allow us, to move capital to another (bigger/better) conti IF we find one

...

Oh, and I also have about 0 experience playing maps like this

 

[CellKu]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge about continental upkeep etc. Since the islands are so tiny I doubt we will find many islands which have space for more than two cities. Since we seem to be up north it might be a good idea to go south for better surroundings...
Btw, Snaaty, is the size of the map standard or also random? For some reason I got the feeling it might be huge... But maybe I am mistaken...

 

[Snaaty]

@ CellKu:

Normal mapsize

 

[Flo7]

Round two -> turn 70

Spoiler :

Researched priesthood > pottery > picked metal casting (from oracle) > polytheism (next writing > aesthetics > literature)

Met Hanibal and Charlemagne. No Alphabet yet.

Colossus versus GLH discussion.

I guess the discussion is decided and I was wrong
The GLH rocks on that kind of map. I have already 3 base commerce from one trade route (bonus for peace is not included, that would make it 4 I guess)

Wow, thats really a lot of commerce

The pro for the Colossus is have metal casting (but the AI does not have the techs worth trading yet, alpha, math are much cheaper...) , a forge generating GPP. But I guess thats not enough to match the trade routes.

Hope you match finishing the GLH, would be a great asset. In my game it was completed in round 50 or so, that will be close !!

 

[Rusten]

Round two.

Spoiler :

I successfully constructed the GLH in 1680 BC after chopping a lot of forests. I missed the ToA however, but there was nothing to be done about that, it was constructed as early as 1720 BC (!)

Researched polytheism and am more or less done with writing. Aesthetics -> literature should get done swiftly due to the commerce from trade routes; I’m currently getting 30-35 beakers per turn even before libraries at size 2 and 1 cities. Reason for the small cities are 1x whip and the herbalist event which I naturally accepted (+2 health in cities for the remainder of the game for 2 unhappy citizens temporarily) although it sets me back temporarily (Hannibal’s fur helps though).

As I mentioned earlier I prefer settling 3 good cities rather than 2 great cities when we’re getting the GLH so I settled 1 south of the green spot. Both cities are able to support a lot of specialists. I’ve contacted several civs now so trade routes shouldn’t be hard to come by; I just need cities to claim them. Even a horsehockey newly founded city like Osaka here is instantly producing a lot of commerce/science so I believe it’s stronger.



A work boat is currently on its way to that fish and I’m making another one to explore the nearby islands for possible cities. Got a sweet luxury deal with Hannibal – fur for seafood, Pericles has gold he is willing to trade, so I’ll keep an eye out for that as well. Possibly I can arrange something after hooking up the fish (he won’t take the single seafood).

 

[Rusten]

@Flo7

Spoiler :

Yes, the trade routes are incredibly powerful on a map like this, but if you get a GE you can rush the Pyramids or something unless they're already built by then. This map will probably favour specialists due to a lot of seafood and poor land tiles so representation might come in handy.

It's still hard to keep up with 2 extra trade routes worth of 3 or more commerce though. I'd say the GLH is imbalanced on a map like this, but it's hard to nerf it without making it useless on more land-based maps.

 

[Snaaty]

Round 2:

Spoiler :

After seeing how much Rusten alredy had explored with his WB, I changed my plan slightly and decided to build the first scouting WB before the GL. To make sure to get them both, I decided to chop some forests. I won’t chop them all, the remaining forests are for the GLib.

…

My scouting mission was pretty successful, making my first contact already in 1600 BC, but pretty far away (which is good actually, because then we have more time to grab some islands). Bad only that it´s Karl/Carlo, who spreads normally like a plague, so we have still to be fast with our settling policy from now on (the GLH slowed us down quite heavy).

Then I meet Hanni (maybe the strongest leader possible for this map, closely followed by Willi) and not much later Zara (another major REXer)

But it might be possible that I spotted the culture of Shaka, quite close to the above mentioned, who should normally slow at least one of them down (hopefully Hanni). Also, I think I might have found a spot to block of the naval expansion of the AI´s in our direction (they have sent some WB´s themselves towards our islands and they all seem to pass by this island, but I´m not 100% sure if there is really no other way… …but still might be worth a try, because the city would be quite strong with two seafood and some hills)

THIS PICTURES ARE SERIOUS SPOILERS, DON’T OPEN IT WHEN YOU HAVEN’T MADE CONTACT WITH THE ABOVE MENTIONED LEADERS & SEEN THEIR LAND

Spoiler :

Some AI´s
View attachment 176077
And everybody seems to have some lux resources, only we don´t have

Bock here???
View attachment 176076

We managed to get the GLH, and our capital is developing nicely, we have now a solid research running with 3 foreign trade routes.

View attachment 176078

Aest is scheduled between 1000 - 900 BC, and Zara already has Alpha, so we are on track with research. The second city is settled and almost able to pay for itself at 100% research. It should only take 3 turns more, then the WB for the second city is in place, and I will switch to slavery, whipping a Monument there. The worker is chopping some forests now for the capital, because I plan to settle the Blocking city ASAP and then maybe the GREEN spot (need galley + settler + warrior for it) and then to connect the sheep (RED, but I have to research/trade Agri + AH here, don’t know jet if I will squeeze it in to time it with the borderpop or wait until after Aest (or even trade it…). Getting the sheep online is crucial, because I can trade them for Fur with Hanni then.

And an updated overview of our conti:

View attachment 176079

Our second city is actually even better then I thought, because there are two floodplains (fp) not one, and with the placement I have chosen, it has 2 fp, fish, sheep, 4hills and only 1 desert, which will make it a food and production strong city, soon able to help to pump out settlers and workers, or to whip a lib and generate our first GS there while our capital is running for the GLib (not decided about that yet…)

…

Next plan is to build a galley (in progress) and a settler to claim the blocking city or the small grassland island (GREEN) north (we can share the crabs with the capital to get it up really quick) and to make it our Maoi city, making it another valid city in the long run. Next building projects then would be workers to get our second city and our colonies up and running. Before that the workers will help to chop the Glib (I’m pretty confident about it now with the research up and running, some forests left and marble)

…

Despite the lousy start and leader, I’m quite pleased so far with this game. IF we manage to play our cards right, we might even have a (very small) chance to fight our way to the top somehow, and this map promises to play quite different to the standard continent map…

 

[CellKu]

I have to apologize because I had to replay the first 40 turns. I had forgotten to switch off the BUG mod and wasn't sure whether they had fixed the problems with the logging system. I just wanted to avoid any confusion on your part in case you want to consult the log. However, I stuck to my original plan as much as possible (but no barracks this time and the hut got me only a map...)
Second, since I don't have much time during the next days I played round 2 and 3 in one. Here, a brief summary of both turns up to turn 100:

Spoiler :

Got the GLH - this is an awesome wonder on this map, I think most of my research is funded by the traderoutes. Founded Osaka in the spot that Snaaty proposed. I like that spot, but if I am not mistaken it has two desert tiles. Switched to slavery.
ASAP after writing I built a lib and ran 2 scientist. However, I got a GM... Used it to bulb Metal Casting (wanted to give the Colossus a shot, but when I had built the forge, the Colossus was BIDL). Now, I am going for the GLib - since nobody has Lit so far, I think we have a decent chance to get it. A settler is on his way to the south and another one in production in Osaka. I didn't expand as quickly as usual and am a bit unhappy about that, but with all the seafood I had to hook up and the boats that I had to build for my expansion (not to speak about the forge...) and meeting the civs the turns just flew by...
Following Rusten's strategy I sent out a boat and met 5 civs so far, all of them were very advanced and very close to each other. The big 3 (SB, Zara and Pericles) have 8 cities each, the 2 smaller ones (Charles and Han) have 4 cities each. Unfortunately, all civs, except Han, are Buddhists.
During the last two turns I did some trades - getting Metal Casting was good for that! Traded Aest to SB, Pericles and Han, and MC to Zara, got Math, Alpha, IW, Calendar, AH and some money. Could have gotten more out of the trades but wanted to avoid cheap techs to not get the wfyabta too soon.

Now the tech situation looks as follows (btw, Philo was already researched - somewhere around the 800s or even earler IIRC):

And my tiny island:

 

[Snaaty]

I also have already finished my third round

will post it later tonight then

 

[Snaaty]

Round 3:

This time I made a VERY detailed report, because

a) I somehow like blabahing and drawing lines in pictures
b) There are lots of news
c) I have a plan
d) I want to promote my game off couse

And I played 3 turns more (more info’s about that in spoiler)

...

Part 1: Trades + AI´s:

Spoiler :

After Aest was in, I started to research into Alpha (normally you need to research two turns into it, to trade it for Aest), but already the next turn Carlo offers this deal:

View attachment 176110

Then I trade with Hanni:

View attachment 176112

And with Zara:

View attachment 176111

At this point I realized, that my scouting WB took the wrong way and I can’t reach the yellow civ. I only have reached Hannis land, whom I already know… …so I had to sail back to Zara´s land and try the other way (cost me about 15 turns of scouting in total).

Finally back, I soon made contact with Bull and Pericles, continuing my trade whoring:

View attachment 176113

At least, finding them later spares them from the WFYABTA from the first excessive trade session…

And I manage to trade for my first lux-res, whine for crabs with Pericles, allowing my capital to grow finally above size 5…

 

[Snaaty]

Part 2: Blocking city & expansion ideas:

Spoiler :

After I moved over a warrior to check the situation, I immediately decided to settle the blocking island, because I found corn and another seafood. So ran there, apparently arriving just in time:

View attachment 176115

There was also a hut nearby, guarded by an archer, which popped a map when I settled (back luck&#8230. At least the archer did against my Rambo warrior…

As you can see in the picture above, Hanni really seemed to be eager to pass this island, and since my blocking wasn’t complete without a borderpop, he managed to sneak his galley (probably a settler and an archer) by, although I closed borders. I saw his ship again about 10 turns later, where I have made the mark with the RED X. Seeing the efforts Hanni took to get by there, I’m pretty convinced now, that this might really be the only passage towards the Japanese Islands and that there must be some (at least one) pretty good island where Hanni is heading. At the end of this set, Hanni still hasn’t settled where he is heading (I checked in the trade screen the number of his cities)… …maybe we had extreme luck and he was killed by the barb galley??? (but I REALLY doubt that)

View attachment 176114

Some turns later, Carl also was approaching with a galley… …but this time our blocking city was up… …closed borders again, bad luck, Carl. NOW I’m convinced that this is the ONLY passage. As you can also see in this screenshot, I found our only source of bronze/iron so far… …in a REALLY crappy location by the way.

And we have a WB ready near the blocking city, we can now use it for some more scouting there or for working the crabs (I would work the crabs, because then whipping another one shouldn´t take long).

...

After debarking settler/worker for the blocking city, I ordered my galley to scout towards the equator. There I then found a green island and immediately headed home again and returned with a warrior for more scouting… …the island turned out to be Fantasy Island:

View attachment 176116

A green, paradise-like island. And we have our second (we have wine on our starting island) and maybe last source of lux.res. there, diamonds, and also horses. I marked some possible locations for further settling there, but am not sure about the two spots on Fantasy Island (haven’t scouted it out fully). The island spot will be petty good, with 2 hills and 2 seafood, but I would only settle it after we have claimed at least the diamonds on Fantasy Island.

 

[Snaaty]

Part 3: Capital, Overview, Trade-options and Plan

Spoiler :

Here you see the reason why I played 3 turns more:

View attachment 176117

We just finished the Glib (and I was too curious if we would really get it. Karl got Lib only 1 turn after us). Next turn our first GreatPerson will hit home, most likely a GM (maybe hire two additional scientists for this turn to increase the chances for a GS???)

A GS I would use to bulb Phil and switch to Hindu and Pacifism to start sprinting towards Lib, a GM I would just store away for later (upgrading/Sushi), because we don’t really need him right now.

I haven’t chopped that much, simply because I didn’t feel it necessary. Research was strong and we had a monopoly on Lit when I started the GL. Now we have some options here:
Chop the NE and increase our GP output or chop/build some more settlers ASAP, because every city INCREASES our overall income (the GLH is brutally strong on this map)

I considered shortly to build the ToA, because I could (had a monopoly on Aest also) but decided against it. The wonder is crap (bonus only on base commerce, which is 1, so the overall bonus would have been 3 gold/turn for all 3 traderoutes together). Besides that the priest would spoil our GP-pool

Also, I priorized the need of getting city 3 out and running higher.

…

Our second city will finish the next scout WB next round and also grow to size 5. From then on, it will be a great second worker/settler pump. A worker is already in place to chop a forest to speed up a settler to claim the diamonds on Fantasy Island:

View attachment 176118

Since I already have seen that it is possible to pass around the north of our island (in Rusten’s post I think) I have marked to path I would send the WB. We might learn something about the island there (quite some seafood) AND maybe even get the circumnavigation bonus, not much missing here.

Thanks to the GLH, we are keeping up in tech. And since I know that the AI´s rate Compass quite high and CoL and Currency were already known by some AI´s when I could have started the research on them, I went for Compass:

View attachment 176119

We could now for example trade Compass for CoL and start on CS right away. Or delay trading with Compass untill we can get both, CoL and Currency in the same turn (maybe go now drama???)

…

Hanni only has 3 cities so far (soon he will have 4 I fear, because of the galley sailing around somewhere in our backyard) and Karl has 7. Karl’s cities are all on one island but they are separated by an impassable mountain and 3 of them are pretty crappy. Both seem to be blocked completely in their expansion now and therefore will remain weak.

So the idea that already formed in my head is to settle aggressively now our islands while running towards Lib and some useful units. Then we should be able to take the first half of Karl’s island and hopefully vassalizing him, then turning on Hanni… …this is a pretty long-term plan, but he, why not

 

[daniel smith]

Just want to say that I'm waiting for more. This is really interesting, hope you guys can pull out a fight and with any luck win it.