Deity of Random - Try 1

[Snaaty]

@ CellKu:

seem like a solid plan

Two more points that come to my mind:

1. Trade for bulls worldmap first, before you do anything else (it's cheap and will show you an actual overview over ALL his cities for better planning)

2. If I got it right, we have the money to upgrade 9 samurais... ...this should be enought for our first wave with the cannons we have and the rifles we draft, so I would keep the research going towards communism and reserve the last samurais for later upgrades (when the money from the captured cities comes in or when we really need them). Maybe we will even upgrade them to grens, depending how things go... ...but this is only an idea, open for discussion here

 

[CellKu]

Yup! Sorry I forgot to mention the map! I will definitely get it first.
Okay, so I will try to reenforce only with draftees and continue teching.

 

[CellKu]

Guys, just wanted to get your input, even though I have played only 3 turns so far.

It's 1350 and I was right before DOWing SB. Now, during the AI's turn, Han DOWed Zara and Charles DOWed him in turn. I see that Zara is sending over a number of frigates and galleons. I could send over a Galleon that commutes between Tokyo and capital island right now and transport some rifles from Tokyo to Han to attack him as well. That way we might be able to sneak in and perhaps get a city before Han is completely run over. I don't see how he will have a chance against Zara and Charles (and I like to take cities that another civ has almost taken right from under its nose... ). On the other side a two fronts war against two different AI's might be a bit too much. What do you think?

 

[Snaaty]

What a timing...

we have VARIOUS options now...

1. Backstab Zara
2. Backstab Charly
3. Finish Hanni
4 Continue with our plans against Bull

...

Some questions:

Where are our troops, how many could we sent towards Hanni, what about the cities Hanni has on "our" island, how many ships did Zara send...

Hanni declared on Zara, so he thinks he has a chance... ...but Charly declared first on Hanni, so he will be the first asked to vassalize Hanni when the time comes...

...

Could you post a screen showing an overview over our units/ships and the save plz?

What´s your opinion concerning Hanni? Can we afford to drop in and take Hannis islands and maybe one additional city on his main conti (or will he fall earlier to Zara/Charly???)?

 

[Rusten]

Woah! Save would be much appreciated, hard to tell/form an opinion without it.

 

[CellKu]

Sorry, guys, I should have given you a better overview than just asking my question.

Here a brief summary of what happened during the first 3 turns:

1st turn:
Traded as we agreed on: Theo+180 from Ramses (for Gunpowder), SciMeth from Han (for steel+215). (Btw, we have oil on our capital island.)
Got SB's map for free. Asked Pericles for his 30 gold and got it.
Tech towards Communism.
Promoted ships and Samurais. Upgraded as many Samurais to Rifles as possible (due to the trades only 8). Whipped a Galleon in Osaka (the only way to get one before the revolt and thus fast enough). We had only 2 Galleons close to Izumo and the frigate that I had sent to Snake had revealed 6 defenders and three others close.

2nd turn: Promoted one more Samurai (so, now we have 9 rifles). I sent the whipped and another Galleon (from fantasy island) to Izumo. Sent another frigate to SB's main island to have a look at the north. Perhaps better suited for an attack, but city is not really great. Revolted to Nat+Theo.

3rd turn: set sails towards SB's main island. First turn of drafting (Kyoto, Yoko, Tokyo).

Then AI turn: Pericles asks for MS I had to comply. Now, he is friendly.
Han DOWs Zara, Charles DOWs Han.

The diplomatic situation:

This is the situation in the east - we are ready to attack SB (in total 4 loaded Galleons and three frigates, reenforcements are already waiting in Izumo):

This is what we have in the west (beside two triremes, a galley that could be upgraded and a Galleon - see at the right):

I haven't draftet yet etc.

With regard to the situation:
I saw a frigate (Zara) and one or two Galleons (Zara) sailing around Charles' city that is opposite of Tokyo. Unfortunately, we don't have our spy there, so that is all I know. The only other thing I remember was a drop in Han's overall score during the last turn (as if he had whipped quite a bit...)

We also need more intelligence on Han. We could send the trireme (close to Nagasaki) to the south to "our" island to have a look at the defense situation there. In the meantime we upgrade the galley to a Galleon and sent the Galleons around to pick up all rifles+cannons that we already have in the west. Continue drafting in Tokyo and if possible in other western cities (right now they are still too small). We also have 2 Samurais still waiting on Tokyo-island which could be upgraded (however, these are the ones we wanted to upgrade later, maybe to grens).

 

[Rusten]

Given how close we are to SB I think we should stick to the original plan. He's able to research MS and replaceable parts now, so the window of opportunity for a slaughter is narrowing down. If we wait much longer we'll lose a lot of units. If we attack SB now we can move on to the next target afterwards with experienced troops.

Charlemagne is researching Rifling atm (won't give us anything for it) so we might want to bribe Han and Charles to peace to make our next war vs them easier (we can use scientific method). At any rate we should send something there to keep track of who's winning the war.

Basically SB is huge and could pose a problem if he reaches grens/rifles whereas Charles/Han can get taken out easily at +/- tech parity.

PS. Be careful with our CR rifles/grens, if the odds are ~80-85% it might be better to just send in some easily replaceable drafted units.

 

[obsolete]

PS. Be careful with our CR rifles/grens, if the odds are ~80-85% it might be better to just send in some easily replaceable drafted units.

I never agreed with this line of thought. In the end it causes more loss of units AND war weariness, AND GG's for your opponent. Not to mention other problems...

 

[Rusten]

But it also means less unit upkeep, and in this situation where SB's units are an era or two behind even the drafted units will win most of the time. War weariness isn't that big of an issue given our small cities, what little we get can get fixed by the culture slider. However war weariness might be an issue in the next war where we're up against a tougher opponent tech-wise, and that's when we want to avoid unit losses--this first one vs SB should be a cakewalk.

Regardless, I noticed we don't have any drafted units at the front yet, so that's for another time.

In general I agree with you though. I usually pick a war to win it and forget about saving units, but this game is a little different imo, because we're going to have to fight several wars and they'll increase in difficulty one after another.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Obsolete:

Nice to see you around, I think we need any advice we can get (basically, I agree with you, but Rusten mentioned some valid points...)

...

@ Rusten:

I agree with you, we should stick to the original plan and go for bull.
bribing peace Hanni-Charles seems the best thing to do

...

@ CellKu:

Thanks for the additional info. I also agree with your ideas:

- Declare on bull
- scout Hannis (our) islands
- keep some ships there, so we can jump in if the situation there is as I expect... ...weak defended cities
- Save some gold, so we can upgrade the remaining samurais for sending them to Hanni
- draft, draft, draft, now that we have a tech-advantage we could do the twofrontwar
- I like Rusten´s idea: Bribing Charls and Hanni to peace seems best thing to do... ...Zara is busy and Hanni lives longer
- I would only capture the 3 good cities on bull´s main conti... ...the city up north is... ...well... ...bad... ...and would drastically increase colonial upkeep

...

Is is possible to make another break once you have the info about Hannis islands to discuss IF we really should backstab him???

 

[CellKu]

Thanks for your input. Then I will proceed as we planned (= DOW SB). I will try to take the three good cities on his main island and then stop.

With regard to the western "front": I will send a trireme to "our" island and one to Han's main island. Moreover, I will try to get Han and Charles to a peace agreement (with SciMeth). As soon as I have more info about Han I will make another break. In the meantime I will gather all "western" units around Tokyo and decrease our science rate a bit, so that we get a bit more money.

 

[obsolete]

@ Obsolete:

Nice to see you around, I think we need any advice we can get

Oh boy, then you must be REALLY in trouble...

I would be quite worried how Peric. seems to be running away in tech, etc. Though there are a few NERF tactics to unleash on him near the game's end so I guess you don't have to worry about it TOO much yet.

Good news is the AI is god-awful terrible at these sort of water maps, so that's a big military bonus.

I say... if you have trouble later on... get a few subs loaded with tactics, and then park them outside Perc's border. Wait till he is one turn away from launching space ship, then nuke him and raz the capital with 1 unit, killing everything in 1 shot. And do the same to any cities someone is using to pull off a culture vic.

Do this with everyone who pulls ahead and it is sort of hard to lose except to some UN vote. Thus, feel free to raz whatever city contains the UN and you have no worries about that either.

 

[obsolete]

* double post...

 

[CellKu]

Nice tips, obsolete. With Pericles being quite fast, we might use them...

With regard to our game right now:
It's 1370, I played two more turns. Since, I have more intel on "our" island occupied by Han I stopped again to post the two screenshots with the respective units in each city. So, we can decide whether we should open another front.

I have a Galleon with three rifles coming down from Tokyo. The second Galleon brings a rifle from our northern island and will pick up a cannon and another rifle from Tokyo.

I waited one turn before brokering peace between Charles and Han (wanted to see how things would work out). Well, Charles got a GG during that turn. So, I started the recommended peace brokering (we got 220 or so gold in that process).

 

[Snaaty]

The situation on "our" island doesn´t look too bad, 4 defenders for each city... ...IF we can spare 3 gallons with maybe 6 rifles and 3 cannons, we could make short work out of them... ...but the desicion, IF and WHEN we can spare them I would rather leave to CellKu (or for the next turnset to Rusten), which means the actual player, because a lot is depending on various circumstances, like the progress of the war agains bull, our losses, our overall situation, where our ships are and so on...

The only consensus we should reach is IF we should open up the two front war, when we have a chance... ...or wait with attacking Hanni untill the war against bull is over

...

My vote here:

Yes, open up two front war when the situation is right

...

EDIT:

But in any case, I would leave the spy-boat near this island, because these cities are closest to Zara´s cities... ...and I think the chances are good, that Zara will launch his main counterstrike there... ...and there is no chance that Hanni can hold these cities then. Best would be to also keep at least 2 gallons and some troops arround to jump in in case of emergency (Hanni about to loose the cities). Zara controlling this island would be REALLY bad

 

[Rusten]

I'm too in favour of multiple wars here when suitable. Hannibal isn't much of a threat anyway, so it shouldn't be too much hassle.

PS. I might need some extra days for my turns (or a skip) because I have an exam coming up (16th IIRC). After that I'm all available again though.

 

[obsolete]

You know, if I were going to attack Han, I'd rather drop into his Capital. It is a monster capital with great food sources, including oil, etc.

And right next to it you can take a double-holy city, and next to that another city. Why not grab that instead? You can then use it as a spring board to take over Charle easy (who also has another holy city). And don't forget, Han has built at least 2 temples already.

It also can be a nice base before your attack on Egypt, which would let you take zeus & TGW for your war efforts, but most importantly, the A-Palace to really give you power in many ways.

It should not be too hard to have sitting bull end up fighting Perc. assuming they don't attack each other on their own.

 

[CellKu]

Okay, we are all in favor of opening a second war - in case we can conquer "our" island quickly or Zara attacks it.
Since it will take a few turns until we get a third Galleon for the western front, I think I will ship the first rifles to Nagoya and then sail back to Kyoto to get some more rifles. That way we can reduce the time for getting our reenforcements to the front, once we have started that war (we only have to sail to Nagoya. I expect that we will loose some units in an attack of Han's cities, as our riflemen are only conscripts and we don't have frigates around for (effectively) bombarding the city defenses.

Btw, I am actually glad you are both not able to play soon. I am not sure if I have enough time today to continue playing.

 

[CellKu]

You know, if I were going to attack Han, I'd rather drop into his Capital. It is a monster capital with great food sources, including oil, etc.

And right next to it you can take a double-holy city, and next to that another city. Why not grab that instead? You can then use it as a spring board to take over Charle easy (who also has another holy city). And don't forget, Han has built at least 2 temples already.

It also can be a nice base before your attack on Egypt, which would let you take zeus & TGW for your war efforts, but most importantly, the A-Palace to really give you power in many ways.

It should not be too hard to have sitting bull end up fighting Perc. assuming they don't attack each other on their own.

You are right that Han's main island has interesting cities. However, if we go for Han's capital we will need a few more units than we have right now (in the west). Since it is a great city we will probably face more defenders than on his far away island that I scouted.
Anyway, I am sending a trireme over to have a look, so we could switch to an attack of his capital if that seems an easy target for our weaker western army. And Han's main island will very likely be our next target once we stormed through SB's lands and have vassalized him. Then going for Charles and then Ramses will likely maximize what we can achieve with our riflemen.

 

[obsolete]

Whooops, you attacked SB already. I was hoping you could attack Han FIRST.. and make it all easier on yourself. His super rich cities should give you more than enough gold to make up for all the extra maintenance, and then some. Also, with all those wonders he built, hopefully he has a nice group of super-specialists absorbed.

As for SB, I'm surprised you are bombarding toward the North now, instead of making his capital the next target, but I guess it's no big deal. What about the most northern city on that continent? There isn't even a food resource for that, are you thinking on razzing it?

BTW, you still have a city with unhappiness problems. In fact, it doesn't even have a single unit in it defending it! At least draft a unit in it, which would solve many problems... and make me sleep better since the AI loves to backstab as soon as it sees a city totally undefended.

Anyhow... focus your attacks on just SB for now I guess, forget about Han until you are complete with this current war.

One suggestion, is that you could focus spy points on Han, for when you DoW later. Then you can drop a few spies in his capital when you short-cut by it, then set a revolt the next turn. That way, your frigates, can bombard a second city in the same turn and you capture at least 2 cities easy. Of course, you can argue if the hammers for the spies are even worth it, if you can use em to make military units instead.