Deity Strategy Help

[soccercop]

Hey Everyone,
Perhaps someone still active like peaster, LordValuna, CharlieChuck, or Magic Gorter can post a more explained (thorough) strategy or tactics to play at Deity at conquest or spaceship. Deity strategy is all i am interested in. Recently i have digging up a lot of old threads and reading how to play deity. They didnt help much. There was one who said to mass expand. But how can u mass expand when there is a limited amount of cities u can build for eg under despotism, monarchy and democracy? when u build more than 12 cities (i think) in monarchy, u get even ur first citizen unhappy.
Then there was who said build markets to control the luxuries and happiness early. But where are u going to get the money early to support the market? Then there are some to trade early but some said to focus on growth. Some said to build pyramids first but some said the Michangelo's chapel should be first. Some said to raise the luxury up early. Some said to said on Monarchy and some said to go for early republic. Some say this and some say that.
What i am trying to say here is I am confused on what to do on deity from the Start game to the End Game. Different people have different views and i dont know what to do. I know there are different things u can do, but what i am asking here is for someone to give me just ONE strategy on how to play deity.
If possible, please provide a very detailed step by step strategy. In that strategy, please explain what needs to be done first, then second, then 3rd, then fourth till the end of the spaceship.
I hope u understand what my request is. I want ONE strategy. Then i can learn other strategies later. Thank you.

Jax.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

There will not be a single strategy to play at any level because civ 2 has many different strategies. I myself have not played deity for a while, but deity plus three, which has different strategies for dealing with happiness (including leaving cities in disorder until they grow to size 2), so I can't give you refined deity strategies. I can say, however, that usually it is best to go to monarchy ASAP, build Mikes and then switch to republic. If you want step by step strategy, look in the old succession game threads in the Stories and Tales forum for games played at deity. The succession games are a good way to learn strategy because there is often debate among players as to the best way to go.

 

[soccercop]

Oh. Really? I never went to Stories and Tales forum before. I mainly stuck with the Civ II Strategy forum this many months. Then sometimes i would go to the Civ II Generals forums. Certainly haven't been to Stories and Tales forum. If u say there are detailed strategies on how to play diety, i will have explore. Deity, is all i am interested in and i am having trouble maintaining happiness. and i cant grow as fast as the AI, and i hate the AI roaming around my cities, but helpless to do anything. also, the AI wipes out my cities a lot early in the game . The long games i played, it is near to 2000AD but i am still way behind in tech and cities and populations. i only got 15 cities as compared to 80+ cities good players have. i have lots to learn.

Jax

 

[soccercop]

Nope. i browsed around Stories and Tales forum for a while but cant find much help on diety. The strategy forums would be better. Civ II save files are not like Starcraft replays. In Starcraft, the replay files view, i can see all the actions of the player from the start to finish. But not for the Civ II save files, we can only see the progress of when the game was saved, so that makes learning difficult.

Jax.

 

[Magic_gorter]

As Pr. Garfield mentioned there is not 1 strategy for playing at deity. It all depands on what kind of game you want to play. Early conquest is stays in monarchy and for a landing game you will get to democracy after monarchy and/or republic.

On the other civ site (www.apolyton.com) there is a "great library". In this library there is an article by Solo about early landing (at Deity). This document describes a good strategy for landings games. They also played some comparison games. Looking at those games and trying to play it also step by step gives you perhaps a good idea how to play on deity.

In this library there must also be an article of Peaster which describes how to play early conquest.

On this site there is a strategy about power democracy (by Starlifter)...but that strategy (with lot of cities) is perhaps to difficult (if you can win easily at Deity then you can also try this strategy). First try to play early landing or early conquest is better.

Hope you can find the great library....if not I will make a link for you..

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Playing Civ 2 is an art, not a science. You won't find turn by turn instructions because they are worthless, as something WILL happen to disrupt them. If you can't play deity without detailed instructions, then you should be playing an easier dificulty. Civ 2 is a thinking game, not a point and click game; what is the point of "playing" if you are just following instructions? Succession games are a nice reference because you can pick up on strategies and see examples of their application. Essentially, Civ 2 is about wisdom, the application of general knowledge to specific situations, and there is therefore nothing more than the most basic template for strategy. It is the reason that the AI is so lousy; if there were universal specific strategies, the game designers would only have had to determine them and have the AI complete them.

 

[Magic_gorter]

I agree totaly with you Prof. Garfield. Every action, move etc. can only be done with a plan. And one of the most important things is to think ahead. It's just like playing chess. Look at all the possibilities and determines which action or move is (in you're opinion) best. Use the documents above only to learn. Look at other games just to see how somebody plays. Learning at the lower levels is good...when playing those levels becomes easy then move upwards (but not to quick)..hapiness problems can kill you. Eventually you can win (easy) at Deity..

As matter of fact I'm right now playing a Chieftain game just to learn Power Democracy better...

 

[Ace]

Good advice, you need a plan and a goal. Than play to achieve that goal.
Unhappiness is no excuse not to build lots of cities at diety level. Unhappiness can be dealt with in several ways. Martial law, temples, trade routes, marketplaces, etc. As previous posters have said, get out of depotism as soon as possible. Your first goal in the tech tree should be monarchy (at least, until you learn to play early Republic), than you need trade! On the way, you should try to pick up Polytheism, this lets you build elephants if you have to fight an AI who is blocking your expansion.

You can never have too many cities, (yeah, well, 254...), you need to continously expand. You can use up to 3 units for martial law, if needed. (I like a phanlax for defense, and 1 or 2 warriors (cheap, and if you keep em, when you build Leo's, the warriors will become riflemen) for additional martial law. Add a temple if needed. You can use Elvii if you have to, and you should use marketplaces (50% bonus for coins and luxuries). And, most importantly, build trade routes!! A trade route is the gift that keeps on giving!!! Every turn til the end of the game, a trade route gives you trade arrows!! Trade means more coins, science, and lux. Once you have trade, start building vans and get those trade routes operational. Not only do you get the one-time boost to coins and beakers, but you get more trade arrows in your city. At diety, three trade routes will help keep a city out of disorder for a while.

A good pattern is to build a settler, than a van in each city, than repeat until something else is required. Trade generates the coins (and beakers) to support a large empire.

Starlifter's guide to a Power Democracy is really good if you want to build a large, rich, democracy. There are many good threads here and at 'Poly that have lots of info. Civ 2 takes time to learn and master. And the really great thing about Civ 2, is that each game is different. That is why replay is so great.

 

[soccercop]

Sorry for my eagerness, i only want to learn Deity. lol. I started playing Civ 2 since april. Civilization 2 is the only game that has captured my attention since Warcraft 3 and Starcraft. I haven't played Civ 3. But i played the demo for Civ 4 and didn't like it. Is Civ 2 better and more interesting than Civ 3 and 4?
At the moment, i am aiming for spaceship and not conquest. I want to know how long games work.

@Ace
You said "And, most importantly, build trade routes!! A trade route is the gift that keeps on giving!!! Every turn til the end of the game, a trade route gives you trade arrows!! Trade means more coins, science, and lux. Once you have trade, start building vans and get those trade routes "Operational".

But i dont get what you mean when you say "operational". First of all, dont think you can get 3 trade routes early in that game because not all your commodities are demanded, unless you forcefully Establish Trade Route. Okay, even if you establish 3 trade route, what do you mean by make it Operational? Do you mean to keep sending more caravans from to that same city which you have a trade route with?

Yes, i have gone over Power Democracy by Starlifter and Andu Indorin many times. But starlifter's stuff takes time to understand. I still haven't fully understood what he writes. I have gone through other Democracy threads in the archive and they are compelling. I am also browsing the archive for Civ II at apolyton for strategies.

Also, i forgot where i read it, but it says to keep the cities at 3 citizens max and keep expanding massively until the mid game or 3/4 of the game has passed. Is it true? When should you have more than 3 citizens in a city apart from the SSC?

@Magic_gorter
yes, i have gone through the Great Library Index at Apolyton. There is Index 1 and Index 2. Great work done in that long list.

Solo's guide will be useful for me to learn more on Deity. I will have to take more time to understand everything.


One thing i had trouble was the AI taking the wonders i want early in the game...like the Lighthouse and Hanging gardens. Then i lose confidence. Also, how do you guys explore the whole map in deity? In deity, the years pass so fast and the amount turns are not enough to explore the whole map. Recently, the Deity games i played.......it is 3/4 into the game and i still haven't explored 70% or 80% of the map.

Jax.

 

[soccercop]

Okay last night i found 2 old threads about deity help for beginners which i find them useful. I am still going through them right now. Here are the links at apolyton.

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000940.html

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2197

Jax.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

But i dont get what you mean when you say "operational". First of all, dont think you can get 3 trade routes early in that game because not all your commodities are demanded, unless you forcefully Establish Trade Route. Okay, even if you establish 3 trade route, what do you mean by make it Operational? Do you mean to keep sending more caravans from to that same city which you have a trade route with?

A demanded commodity only gives a larger delivery bonus (the multiplier depends upon the commodity; uranium, for example, is x4). Otherwise, all trade routes function the same way. You can deliver commodities to cities if they are not demanded. Usually, deliver them to the largest AI cities you can find, provided the city is in Republic or Democracy (if possible). A city can have more than 3 trade routes, but it will only get a bonus from the best three.

Also, i forgot where i read it, but it says to keep the cities at 3 citizens max and keep expanding massively until the mid game or 3/4 of the game has passed. Is it true? When should you have more than 3 citizens in a city apart from the SSC?

You'll have to decide that for yourself based on individual circumstances.

One thing i had trouble was the AI taking the wonders i want early in the game...like the Lighthouse and Hanging gardens. Then i lose confidence. Also, how do you guys explore the whole map in deity? In deity, the years pass so fast and the amount turns are not enough to explore the whole map. Recently, the Deity games i played.......it is 3/4 into the game and i still haven't explored 70% or 80% of the map.

In deity, you have to prioritize, especially with regards to wonders. You can't get them all, so choose carefully, especially in the early game. Different people will go for different things because they play different strategies. I would advise you to develop your own strategy for playing and then, when you have some experience of what to expect, to take bits of advice and incorporate it. You can't expect to play a perfect game immediately, so try out a general deity strategy and see where it takes you.

As for turns and exploring, Apollo Program will reveal the map anyway. Also, turn increments get way smaller after 1750.

 

[Terrapin]

Also, you can skip exploring and get most of the map revealed by trading maps with other civs. You can do this without first meeting those civs if you build Marco Polo's Embassy. This is why many players hold MPE in very high esteem.

 

[Ace]

Sorry about the confusion with the word "operational", I should have said deliver those vans to establish trade routes as soon as you can. As long as a city supplies commodities, it can build vans and deliver them. But each city can only have three routes, so the computer picks the best three and those are the ones shown in the city screen. Each delivery always gets the bonus of coins and beakers, even if that particular route is not added to a city's list.

The Prof. is right about city size. If your going for an early conquest using ICS, infinite city sprawl, you want to keep the cities small, but, if your going for a large empire, build those cities larger. Bigger is better in that case. Your long-term goal will also influance your city spacing. Using ICS, you want to build them close together since they don't get very big, but, if your going to build large cities, you need to space them out to avoid overlap so each city can use all 21 hexes, if possible.

Trade deliveries will provide the coins to build your empire and the science beakers to race through the tech tree.

 

[Ace]

Civ 2 is a complicated game. Its like chess, its easy to learn what each piece can do, but it takes a lot of time to learn to use them in the proper combinations. So, don't try to learn civ2 in just one game. Try the things you read about in the various threads, one by one. After a bit of practice, the bits will start to fit together and your game will improve.

Don't let the sheer mass of information overawe you. Take it one game at a time. And, remember, It is susposed to be fun, not work!!

 

[Magic_gorter]

In my opinion the first and most important wonder to get is Marco Polo, it's the key of winning the game. When having that wonder you can get:
- the not discovered techs of the other civs easily and use them to help discovering new techs;
- the maps of the other techs (then you know where you can deliver those vans in early game for max gold deliveries).

This wonder is so powerfull and the AI will not build it quickly (they chose most of the times pyramids, hanging gardens, lighthouse and great library)...

Getting Lighthouse depends on the map you're playing on. Whit a lot of ocean between the islands it's a great wonder but if the islands are close together you can probably build another wonder....

 

[soccercop]

Thank you so much so the advice. There is a limit of amount of cities in despotism, republic, democratic and monarchy. if i exceed the limit, the first citizen becomes unhappy. what is your solutions for that? Will increase in luxury rate solve the problem?

jax

 

[Magic_gorter]

Not always. Under depotism you can use units in the city as warriors for martial law, or build hapiness improvements like temple. The best way (in my opinion) is matial law because getting to monarchy could be achieved (normally) between 3000 and 2000 bc.

Under monarchy martial law might not be enough so building an hapinesswonder could help (hanging gardens) or stop making new cities (it's still ok to build settlers) and discover The Republic.

When in Republic hapinessproblems can be solved with the luxury rate but the trick is to get that rate not to high (for tech growth and taxrevenues)...so just build marketplaces etc. and hapinesswonders (especially Michelangelo's).

In democracy there is not a big difference to Republic. Only problem can be staying to long in disorder which causes anarchy.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

In the very early game, try building a warrior first in your cities, then start a settler. The warrior will do martial law when the city reaches size 2. After compleeting the settler, build another warrior and then settler. Before you reach the city number limit of your government, the warrior can explore a bit before returning to the city to do martial law. At that time also, your second citizens can give extra production. Once you hit the threshold, be sure to have a warrior with the new settlers so that there can be martial law to start, and basically include the warrior cost as part of the settler. You should have 2 warriors in your size 2 cities, because they will be close to compleeting settlers. If not, use an entertainer. Avoid feudalism like the plague, because getting it will hurt the strategy very much. Soon, your inner cities should be stockpiling caravans for Marco Polo's Embassy and Mike's Chapel. After that, happiness should not be a serious problem and republic is an option.

Play a deity game and try to solve any problems you may encounter yourself. Then come back and ask if others know a more effective option. You'll feel better about yourself if you can solve your own problems.

Incidentally, how many games have you played at lower levels?

 

[soccercop]

alright. there is a lot to learn in diety. The main problem i face right now is how to stop the unhappiness in the early game. I am fine in stopping the unhappiness in Despostim and Monarchy with Martial law. But my gosh, i have so much corruption in Monarchy. Cities further away from the capital even have 3 corruption at the starting when the cites are founded and even with 1 citizen...... i can hardly produce anything useful. I wanted to produce a courthouse but with only 1 citizen and the cost of 1 gold so early in the game, i hesitate. So i want to get to Republic asap. I think Republic is a must in Deity because im surprised corruption comes so early.

Now i am learning how to stop the unhappiness in Republic. Once i change to Republic Government, i disband 2 out of 3 army so i dont have to pay for shield support. I normally have a temple ready in each city, but still not able to stop the unhappiness. Its annoying. lol. Civ is more than unhappiness. lol. I think the temple isnt able to stop the unhappiness when the city has 5 citizens. I have to play some more and see how each happy wonder will decrease the unhappiness. Colloseum is too expensive in the mid game, dont you think?

1 more question. When i am in Republic government, if i have to make new cities and have the 1st citizen discontent, what is the solution? Rush buy a temple?
you said to raise the luxury rate as a trick. I tried increasing the Luxury rate to 40% but the 1st citizen still is discontent. Buying a temple would be my idea, but i am not sure if there is better trick.

Which other Gotm games were played in deity? Gotm 78 and gotm 13 are in deity. i was able to download the save files for many players for gotm 78. However, there were no players save files for gotm 13. The save file zip has only the .SAV file and no player saves. something wrong?

Jax

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Which other Gotm games were played in deity? Gotm 78 and gotm 13 are in deity. i was able to download the save files for many players for gotm 78. However, there were no players save files for gotm 13. The save file zip has only the .SAV file and no player saves. something wrong?

Jax

Unfortunately I didn't start handling the GOTM until #18, so the file for 13 is what it is.

As for other Deity games... My list shows 18, 24, 36, 46, 66, 72, 78, and 83.