[BTS] Deity stumbling I

[Snowbird]

After several attempts to kill Asoka, I give up on this map.

How is going for you Snowbird?

Well, I've took 'management capabilities check'(or whatever that gets transl a t ed to proper English), which in practice is more like two hours long oral exam (it is obligatory for people, who try get certain posts in government run institutions(which likely means they are not too good at their profession)). I'm not sure some examining ladies were qualified for the job (one of them totally refused idea that army and kindergarten should not be run using exactly same ideas, cause there is one true 'established good management practice'). Looks like I've passed although.

just in case someone else plans playing

Spoiler 925BC :

Glad i built the Gwall, since it sawed me lots of hammer, which would have gone to military. Also setlling in barb faces is satisfying:


That particular arc her caused lots of problems cause i boxed it in the peninsula. It also ate my so far only chariot (32% ods according to combat log). I think overall I would have done better if i've built workboat, monitored archer with i and run settler, when barb unit was deeper in peninsula (iirc, i've checked with warrior and run settler in to finally get cow-fish-clam).

The reason for building chariot was wish to explore, since were looked to be land on the other side of clam.

there is lighter water color (shelf I guess) on clams, and especially well seen on the tile above clams.

The barb annoyance however meant I sent my other warrior down from were AI's were showing up (Boudica of Japan --- she built stonehenge and founded buddhism, also Asoka of Carthage, given Sal's espionage spendings I think he must know someone else)....

Well, again without Gwall, I would not dare to scout so far. If you look carefully you can see that city is likely neighbor just Asoka, I would have reservations to settle next to Boudica.

Bad thing is that getting all these fancy spots means...

since settler is guarded by chariots i most likely will end being one turn short (I can't settle on the next turn since the only place i can move is two tiles away from my own city). at ~900 BC I thought it was safe, but my guess is that Sal is trying to seal off the land in SE.

Not sure what i am going to do with settler, most likely put towards silk corn area (which i do not like cause city is rather weak before border pop and i have no mysticim) and wait for concurrents to show up.
Land overview.

Need to scout the island (assuming it is an island, i am surprised i have trade network to Boudica, but not to Asoka -- japan did send woarkboat towards me...)

General ideas:
going for GW was very good idea.
teching hunting was not -- single 1f4C tile while planning to have mids for hapiness is just a delay in other key techs(pottery i do not think was mistake, as representation citizens are good enough at 1h3beakers)
roading... it still is one of my weakpoints ----- the road towards saladin core (likely h is horses which should be connected, would be better than towards my own horse and if i had road on desrt hill and than grassland (same worker turns as plains forest and forested hill), my saettler would be one turn further, which would mean I could get another city)
whipping nanjing worker before writing --- had to put 2.0 hammers into granary which would be so much better spent towards library. (I guess my point was that i'd rather chop while finishing writing, b ut i did some sheanigans (deploying citizens mostly) in order to whip setller>library in capitol)

Gspy --- given that i am close to bottoming research, i will probably settle GSpy (with representation it would be 6 beakers 12 espionage, while Gscientistc without mids is 1 hammer 7beakers --- rather comparable.) slow accumulating spy points gives disadvantage as AI typically raises espionage slider, which means he is teching slower and increased costs. I still think I have to settle him to keep tech going.

I think i am few millenia (and several in game hours) away from killing any one

 

[Snowbird]

Spoiler 125BC :

After short consideration, I decided to go Aesthetics next. Well, trade bait and in a game with doubtfull bulbs paya (which is cheap with gold+industrous) could be useful.

875BC GG is born in uknown lands (died 800BC)... slider is down before libraries will come online.
700BC Budica declares on Asoka... Asoka's settler truns around... guess my corn silk place can sleep a bit more. (Founded at 500BC). I've traded him horse for luxuries... also hoping he builds chariots thus, maybe boudica manages to make any progress.
650BC Boudica builds GLH (sigh, in the middle of war)
575BC finished asthetics, tech myst at zero slider for silk corn.
475BC - Parthenon gets build in unknown land... panic mode on.
425BC out of all people, Boudica teches Alphabet, swap aesthetics around. Got maths, decided not to try for hanging gardens, since Glib would be lot of better for GP points.... Hanging gardens still not built.... maybe i should try whipping aqueduct in cap, like right now.(125BC that is).
250BC whip galley and settler, since island is still available.
200BC trade literature for half teched calendar, in theory 2xspices+whale is passable spot above the cap... once I get curthauses.
125BC finish great library (phew), MoM built (ragnar -- I've sent one of warriors to scout Saladin, met ragnar's boat), settle fish, horse, shared clam on the island (arguably should have built it 1W, but,IIRC barb warrior was a problem). Found Newcastle.... IS Ragnar on the same land mass?

Some fancy thoughts...
Boudica teched compass...WTF?
saladin has two shrines...
england has like half world wonders (oracle into MC into colosus, while being financial)
Ragnar of England converted to christianity and has hands full... I think Saladin, will have hard times at some point.
Religions.... on immortal I would probably just run free religion, but on deity I'd prefer running pacifism for some time. Not sure then to switch... after whiping few spies maybe... except if i gamble on hanging gardens (most likely i will-- pop boost in smaller cities, would be wellcome).
Techs -- Currency most likely, and aim to steal CoL(not sure i can get spy in place in time, maybe if i whip at least one spy right away)...
Great people - i think at current rate i have about equal odds for spy/engineer, scientist... scientist is most likely doing academy (or save for bulb), spy would infiltrate, and engineer... use for golden age maybe?

Screenshots:

World wonders (unrestricted leaders do change things sometimes):


arabic shrine (I can see inside the cities I have TR already. mecca has nothing of interest):


Boudica tried to send galley through... since I did not want to gamble on boat having settler, I just closed borders with her. (Asoka had war and Sal is probably not interested, so it seems I can claim island too)


Culture check, while searching for guy behind Saladin (from this view I decided to go down).


islandmap... that barb city

 

[Anysense]

Arabs with 14 cities look frightening. You should make them pleased ASAP, once expansion phase is over you will be in danger. At the same time you've expanded too slowly. I think that two settlers would be a lot better investment than Shwedagon Paya, a rather worthless WW. If you want to adopt pacifism then just bulb philosophy, though you had to think about it earlier.

 

[Fippy]

Barbs can attack your island city, no great wall protection.

 

[elmurcis]

Barbs can attack your island city, no great wall protection.

Good point, Vandal can also build and send out archer (another could come from fog and..). single archer would do the defense job but not single warrior../learned some harsh barbs lesson from game some time ago where barbs used galley + ambhibious attack to raze city - that was 3 city island with barbs city in the middle and empty city defender was fogbusting vs galley spawn /

 

[Snowbird]

If you want to adopt pacifism then just bulb philosophy, though you had to think about it earlier.

A bit tough with first GP being a spy. The whole point of getting Paya was correct great people production (second was GS - academy, then EDu, lib bulbs, nanjing born GE rushed taj(denial, saves another gp for the next GA) and GSpy is chilling in beijing-infiltration probably).

With Asoka and religious nut Sal(who is definitely on his own restricted script) it was rather likely philo showing up in trade. (even if it did not)

It's not like that ~500BC there was much land left for settling either. I guess, 2xspice (which i did not settle, which is likely to be wrong (doesn't such satelites increase danger of being declared on, due to closiness to yourself?)) and something on the island (i did settle, however very late).

Ragnar declared on Sal at 100AD... at which point I've decided rather having Boudica as trading partner so i've spun budhism out of Xian (poor city). (I think I DoW on ragnar for diplo, since i've figured he is likely on other land mass). Well, again my comfort zone is on immortal, and on that level fending off AI in early AD's is not a problem... I viewed Boudica's stacks towards Asoka... likely I am underestimating potential danger (especially the elephant part).
On other hand if i go hindu... well, Boudica luckily found another target, but in general I am not sure how I should get both Sal and Boudica to pleased. (Sal is on 17cities now....)

Barbs can attack your island city, no great wall protection.

Xian warrior in the screenshot was to get whipped and autoupgraded to spear(iron connected on last turn, one whip sucks, but at least hammers doe not get wasted ) and to be sent to the island.

I did not tried looking what's the barb odds of warrior vs warrior in city on deity(might be unacceptable). (I think, that city was under warrior protection for 3-4 turns, I don't think barbs can send archer in that timespan).

For general info, things i have stolen were CoL(with 20% stationary bonus) and Compass. In early AD i switched some espionage to Asoka in order to see what he was teching (would be close to stealing optics otherwise)

Spoiler :

It is 820AD,GA has just s started and i sold map to Ragnar to fund last 3 turns through gunpowder.

I think it will be cuirrasiers into Carthage, Japan and then likely cavalry+spies(using GSpy for points) on Saladin. Not sure what I plan doing if/once he gets to rifles. One move war against his size seems to be suicidal.(switch to hindu kill everyone else maybe.)

Ragnar lost Newcastle and has nice Christianity AP... Not trading with the rest of us heathens. Has drama, banking and optics on me... no CoL yet...

I wish I had optics, but so far another continent does not seem to be factor (they've got judaism, but that GG dying thing at 800BC...)

 

[Snowbird]

Spoiler 1020Ad :

25BC - got Currency, well, i think teching currency instead of half Calendar probably would have been better in the first place. (got good value for literature, but earlier trade routes and cash balancing would be better) Boudica at some point signed peace, got one city in the process.
Got GS (used on academy), nanjing three pop whipped aqueduct started gardens.
1Ad stole CoL, start CS (ragnar was first to music in early AD), I think i sold literature for cash to Sal to fund research.

50AD-- hanging gardens...Boudica gets her hands full again...I triple check that she has no open borders with Asoka.
100AD - Tao gets founded in Sal land, Ragnar declares on him.
125AD - finished CS
~200AD - convert to budhism, bureau+pacifism
250AD - declare on Ragnar( I think he lost Newcastle at this point(log says 375AD although)), now Ragnar thinks I am his worst enemy and he actually managed to get himself pleased with Boudica and Sal.. due to everyone running HR. Not a smart move.
275Ad another GS --- (eventually bulbed education)
520AD Sal -Ragnar peace, I think i gave him map to get stop war.
450AD another GS, stole compass(~500AD) to open lib bulb. Since i saw Sal and Asoka's research and Raagnar was not a factor(at that point) I decided to lib MT to save some beakers. In general, Taj without marble is no go.
~680AD GE pops out of nanjing (I think greatest odds were for prophet)
800AD rush Taj, finish lib to get MT.

820AD made a stop -- things I severely disliked:
not settling 2xspices spot
lack of worker force -- two green tiles in cap not farmed, second fur not roaded, stuff like spare silk and 3x incense south of nanijng unimproved.

There were reasons like Sal spy destroying cap's library, but not a good play on that front. Made a couple more workers in capitol while teching through gunpowder.

Saladin's tech path after liberalism --- PP, replaceable parts, gunpowder, rifling (unfinished). Well, i did infiltrate him and stole PP, bad part i did not notice mercantilism thing so no -20% fro trade routes.
940AD-stole optics(i think i noticed Sal was doing replaceable parts after that - just me being dumb)

980AD - stole PP after iniltration. Popped another GE - used it for gold age an started teching astro(once again mistake -- I am not 100%sure what is right play (i think spy switching Sal out of mercantilism and chain stealing to rifling, as I think I can get about enough spy points in time I would tech through economics -- I do not see huge point of teching the latter myslf), but astro (and optics for that matter) likely won't matter for quite some time)
1000Ad use GA to switch to hindu (theocracy+police state happened on the first golden age)

Do not think I've played really well at this segment, but that is more typical for me. I tend to overbuild stuff like forgers and curthauses while sometimes loosing big point view.

Some pictures:
tech situation:

I feel like I should relieve Boudica from that cash pile....proble is I think best trade would be MT (otherwise she might gt that in trade)

that is how one leaves ~800 espionage points my being dumb:


most AI's are afraid of china becoming too advanced, however I can find deals at the bottom of the scoreboard --- which could easily have been optics(another~900 spy points):


fancy Carthage stacks... deity...:


Currently i have ~25 curraissers assembling on the Asoka's border. Given two wars, I probably want more for dealing with counter attacks.

 

[Snowbird]

1610AD situation:

Spoiler :

I hope biology helps (even with few extre settlers, I've been claiming 0.3-0.4% per turn so far.)


In case you wonder about reasons:

It is not that bad empire wide. I did delete ~10 workers on the other landmass...

 

[sampsa]

No idea what you are saying in those screenshots (want to grow but lack ? but what do deleted workers have to do with it?). Anyway, congrats on a well played game.

 

[Snowbird]

No workers - no farms. No farms ---- 10% pop at 0.4% pace is 25 turns, which is asking for problem if Saladin pops Great Merchant and founds food corp. (He is well past rocketry, sigh)

The Sitting Bull's island has pearls like this:

Spoiler :

That is his improvements, i guess he tried starve squeeze something out of it in the last turns.

 

[Anysense]

You could adjust the slider. For every 10% towards culture a city gains +1 happiness, a theater gives +1/10% as well and a colosseum +1/20%. Aiming at domination you don't really need reasearch.
I see you already have done it.

 

[Snowbird]

Well, I sort of needed research slider to get to biology

Hmmm.. figures I never knew how domination pop requirement really worked. From old posts seems to be most populous opponent+25% (although last mention of it speaks about vanilla). So as my percentage increases, the requirement decreases as Sal's pop makes slightly less population overall. I'm down to 62% pop needed.

 

[Snowbird]

From 1020AD to finish

Spoiler :

1050AD DoW Asoka, Ragnar builds Versailles....
I' lost ~20 cuirrasiers in Carthage, at first I though formation phants were some leftover from wars with Boudica and then found 3 military instructors in Carthage..

1130AD vasalize Asoka, lost my GG healer in the process. Use anothe rgeneral for that purpose.
1140Ad finally managed to steal rifling, sold liberalism to anyone with cash (also taking maps) and upgraded ~dozen cuirassiers. Crack whips to produce cavalry. Boudica is through replaceable parts.
Found both remaining AI's --- Sitting Bull of sumeria and dutch Kublai Khan... no surprise they were fighting.
Also bought Kubla's map to get circumnavigation.

1180AD-1250AD war with Boudica, took few extra turns to capture Osaka for budhist shrine, vassalize her, start directing both vassals research. I also need to bribe them to hindu...
Captured that stupid barb city and caravels are doing their best to check for any unsettled islands.

Cities mass build wealth to squeeze into Astronomy
Somehwere at this point started whipping galleons, burnt remaining 3 GG on galleons (1 for 2 xgalleys without xp, another 2 for 5 galleons out of hindu cities). The result is 7x 7move galleons for fast reinforcings.

1310AD Kubla vassalizes under bull...

1390AD finally get in position to DoW Ragnar (he got cannons and is freshly up to grenadiers)... capture three coastal cities next turn.
1440AD captured last English city. load remaining troops on galeons, speedy ones are reinforcing. Managed to send ~6 fregates for bombarding too.
1500ADDoW on backward island
1520AD got Communism from Boudica, revolt to state property. I've kept last dutch city for a bit to prevent nonsense like vasalization under Saladin.
1550Ad got control of that island, start regrowth.
1610Ad trade for Biology

Towards the end i begged 10 gold from Saladin just in case he gets some ideas with couple truns to victory.
1660AD apparently fed enough people to win domination, with all alst second staelites ended having 50cities...

Some pictures:
The New lands of China:

The happy city of Nanjing(hermitage was built in hopes to protect few land tiles):


Final diplo situation:


So few turns in dark and I've got barb city... ended being 8size and belonging to Arabia


Sweet vassal tech trading


I think stealing might have been cheaper towards the end... until eventual DoW from diplo hits.


Clever ideas of British(sure i gave horse -- horsies do not defend and do not upgrade to grenadiers):

 

[sampsa]

That's a smooth victory.