Deity Tips

[Revent]

The jump from IMMORTAL to DEITY is absolutely massive. The struggle is real. If I don't expand quickly, I tend to get boxed into three or four cities (two of which arent even good) and if I expand to five or six cities, my economy completely crashes. It feels like my normal playstyle is not capable of handling Deity.

What techs in the early game are worth it? Which ones should be skipped and traded for?

How many workers should I have in the early game and how many cities? What's the safest way to break out? At the moment, I start playing a game and lose motivation once I fall behind/get boxed in.

Is it time to step down to Immortal difficulty level and work on early war?

Revent

 

[Seraiel]

What you experience is totally normal imo. If you start without a Goldmine or similar, you'll always fall behind. You need to improve your tech-trading skills, so you get 5 techs for your 1, and you need to make use of bulbs, to get techs which can be traded to lots of civs.

There are imo two approaches early on:

1. The Alpha beeline

This is the superior approach but requires you to be good at fogbusting and doing with Warriors only, because you'll skip BW in many cases and sometimes will even go TW Pottery instead of AH. If you're first or second to Alpha, it's almost impossible to not be able to compare with the AIs if you play well.

2. The Asthetics approach

This approach gives you more freedom. You can research more basic techs, and it's unlikely that AI will go for Aesthetics, so you'll definitely get good tradegood, for which you can get Alpha and Maths. You'll fall far behind with this approach, but you'll be able to catch up again, though it's difficult.

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There is a 3rd approach, which is the HBR + Maths approach, but I never had success with that one. Getting Alpha is easy but HAs are too weak for my taste, I have much more success with Elepult. In this approach you beeline HBR after Writing, and follow up with Maths and try to get Alpha for both. Sometimes, you can even trade HBR for IW and get Alpha without Maths.

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Regarding expansion: I often write, that I delay the 2nd Worker as much as possible. I build up to 5 Settlers before building a 2nd Worker. I improve 3-4 tiles at the capital, then I hop over to the next city with my Worker, improve 2-3 tiles, next city and so on. On Deity, it's more important to grab land first, and working unimproved tiles also isn't really that bad in the beginning, also cities are small, so doing with only very few improvements (and ofc. no roads) is possible.
For Elepult, 4 cities is a good number, for HAs 3 is good, for Cuirrassiers, try with 6 or 7. Less is possible, but then it gets tough. I've already won with Cuirrassier breakouts from 3 cities, 1 having no food, but those games require precision work at the wars, like weakening a target and isolating it while building the perfect stack and don't lose more battles than the RNG shows.

Regarding the economical crash, read my guide on hybrid economy, there are lots of tricks to get , like i. e. whipping a Warrior when he's almost complete and chopping heavily into it on top. If you have foreign TRs, you at least shouldn't go bankrupt, and with tricks like the one with the Warrior, you can always make it to Currency.

 

[Pangaea]

I have only played a handful of Deity games on Normal speed, so keep my limited experience in mind. What I have found, however, is that if you get ocean on one side, it's easier to block off land so you can get 5-7 cities. Barbs are easier to block out too. Surprised there wasn't more feedback in the thread you posted earlier, but that's what I did there. One city was without food, but I did manage to squeeze in 6 cities, won Lib, and broke out with Cannons since there weren't horses.

Spoiler :

Deity is very difficult, however, and a DOW at the wrong time, or an AI getting a vassal during your wars, and it can be curtains down. You need good diplo to reduce the chance of getting DOWed, and do well with tech trades and bulbs. You simply cannot keep up with the AI, because it will research and build units almost twice as fast as you. Soon enough (a few eras), and the AI researches more than twice your speed. You can't go toe to toe with them, so you need to beat them with longterm planning instead.

To greatly increase your chance of winning Lib, don't trade away Education, and preferably also Paper, and try to use at least one GS to bulb Education.

If your diplo is good enough, you can get by with warriors in your cities until you break out with Cuirs or Cannons after winning Lib.

A DOW then......

 

[stevenburns]

1. Scout right. Find the closest AIs as fast as possible. Dont waste time on tundra, coast and often jungle, too.

2. Judge your neighbours right. Who is competing for what part of the land. Who is likely to attack. Who will likely be attacked? How do I trick the AIs diplo?

3. Choose first settle locations carefully. Dont be distracted by city sites that will become very powerful by 500AD but slow you down right now. Use overlap, especially for a future cottaged capitol. It doesnt have the time to work its cottages itself in the first ~100turns. Dont let a single tile distract you from your tech path. Cows are nice but a single one doesnt justify to research AH.

4. Learn how to live without at least one of pottery, AH or BW. Very often you'll have to live without two and BW is almost always one of them, because:

5. Prioritize writing. First key tech to me. After finding out that @Seraiel is perfectly right about settlers >> workers in the beginning, writing gives you the chance to manage TRs and sientists. Early enough, this lets you skip pottery. Without the whip and not being EXP there is no time or actual need to build granaries early on anyway.

6. Learn how to reach the effective units the fastest. Units that provide the best results are imo catapults, trebs, cuirassiers and cannons. (Trebs require the right circumstances, though.)

7. In any game, find a way to reach currency as early as possible.

8. Prepare your cities accordingly to their designated role. Dont build 90% of the buildings in cities other than your capitol. Most cities are perfectly fine with a granary, a forge , and a barracks. Build research, wealth and fail gold instead.

Those things helped me to improve quite a lot. First they seemed restrictive to me but they make you focus on the bigger picture.

 

[Tatran]

Soon enough (a few eras), and the AI researches more than twice your speed.You can't go toe to toe with them, so you need to beat them with longterm planning instead.

How does one learn longterm planning without getting distracted by shortterm events?

 

[Pangaea]

Need to keep your eye on the ball, and try to adapt if anything goes tits up

For example, start running two scientist somewhere early, so you get a GS for either an academy or to bulb. Beeline pretty hard for Lib, and backfill as much as you can from whatever the AI is doing. When breaking out after Lib, I like to get up a barracks and forge in the ~6 cities, and perhaps run theocracy if you have a well-spread (state) religion, so you get two promotions right away.

Always try to think ahead, set yourself medium and longterm goals.

Civ4 is a complex game however, and Deity a worm's nest, so s**t can hit the fan pretty darn suddenly. Therefore you need to adapt to events in the here and now too - but always look further ahead and plan well. It's what separates humans from the AI.

 

[Seraiel]

Trying to stay ahead of the time is one of the most important skills, and most if it comes through experience. This is, why nobody starts on Deity. If you're still too unsure with Worker or tech-decisions, diplomacy, micromanagement or the several strategies that can lead to a win, you should play Immortal some more Revent. Conquering Deity takes very long. I believe I needed over one year 'til I won my first normal speed Deity game, best you at least start of with a strong civ and a strong start, like Darius or Egypt with at least 1 Farming-resource and 1 Goldmine. Then it'll still be hard enough, but at least you can gain experience and get more comfortable with the settings. You also should choose Epic speed, Normal is really off the chart for the beginning, with units obsoleting during wars. Try to choose favourable settings, don't start on hardcore, your previous games iirc. showed, that you still have problems with reaching certain goals, like i. e. Currency, while warring, and Deity requires you to execute several things simultaniously.

Also, you aren't that far yet, but a Golden Age at the right time can bring the decisive advantage. I often found it impossible to stay up in tech while producing a large army without those in the beginning, today, I regularly plan for GA-chains of up to 5 consecutive MoM-fueled GAs. This requires very much planning ahead, as getting the right GPs at the right times is not easy, but even if you only make it to get 1 GA from a random GP, create 2 GPs during that GA for another GA and then get the Taj Mahal in between for a 3rd GA, already is a huge advantage.

 

[rah]

there are lots of tricks to get , like i. e. whipping a Warrior when he's almost complete and chopping heavily into it on top. If you have foreign TRs, you at least shouldn't go bankrupt, and with tricks like the one with the Warrior, you can always make it to Currency.

Does this work in vanilla BTS or does it need one of the mods?

 

[Izuul]

Does this work in vanilla BTS or does it need one of the mods?

IIRC it's a feature in BULL, but not BUG. I assume it works in BUFFY as well since Seraiel is mentioning it. I haven't played vanilla BTS in ages, but I'm fairly certain it does not work there.

 

[rah]

Thank, I thought I was not understanding it because it never seemed to work for me.

 

[Seraiel]

@ rah: It's bugged in vanilla BtS, but either BULL or BUG + BUFFY have patched it so that it works correctly. In vanilla BtS, too much overflow is simply lost.

 

[rah]

Well that explains that. hahahhahaha
I kept saying, this is a great strat why?

Multi play keeps it vanilla.
And I don't want to get used to doing it in single if I can't use it in Multi

 

[elmurcis]

Oh crap... I have BUG (some kind of it) but don't have this "gold overflow" option possible... I only whip into wonders (for failgold, specially if I'm going to complete some of it by myself soon)... Now that explain why I can't support my empire so well after heavy REX...

 

[Seraiel]

Well that explains that. hahahhahaha
I kept saying, this is a great strat why?

Multi play keeps it vanilla.
And I don't want to get used to doing it in single if I can't use it in Multi

I understand that. It's odd though, that MPs have to play with that bug, because the "too much OF method" let's one really REX. Later it's not important anymore, because one only gets the base amount of so no multipliers, even if built, which makes the method basically obsolete from Factories onwards. Maybe you can make Missionary / Exec Failgold work for you though, and National Wonders like the Hermitage only have a slight production penalty when being whipped, so when having the resource, whipping it in several cities is highly efficient.

 

[Seraiel]

Oh crap... I have BUG (some kind of it) but don't have this "gold overflow" option possible... I only whip into wonders (for failgold, specially if I'm going to complete some of it by myself soon)... Now that explain why I can't support my empire so well after heavy REX...

It's no option. You simply whip a Warrior once he's almost complete, then you got too much OF, for which you get on the next turn automatically. This only happens with Warriors and Archers, because all other units are too big. If you deliberately chop into the Warrior on top, you get the Forrest's value as "Failgold" , even before Currency. You have to make this work for you, you cannot choose to get instead of OF.

 

[Revent]

Looks like Deity is not for me quite yet. I think I'm going to jump back to Immortal until I can play it with comfort with tough leaders

Thank you all for the input; I think I just lack the experience of grand strategy I guess.

 

[Pangaea]

It's no option. You simply whip a Warrior once he's almost complete, then you got too much OF, for which you get on the next turn automatically. This only happens with Warriors and Archers, because all other units are too big. If you deliberately chop into the Warrior on top, you get the Forrest's value as "Failgold" , even before Currency. You have to make this work for you, you cannot choose to get instead of OF.

Will work with scouts too I suppose.

Looks like Deity is not for me quite yet. I think I'm going to jump back to Immortal until I can play it with comfort with tough leaders

Thank you all for the input; I think I just lack the experience of grand strategy I guess.

No shame in that. Deity is very tough. I'm more comfortable at Immortal too, and it's probably more fun as well tbh, because you can play the game more normal. It's a good sweetspot I think.

 

[Seraiel]

Will work with scouts too I suppose.

Yes, ofc.

I have building a Scout unit already deleted from my memory, either I start with one or it becomes an Explorer, because Compass is a tech a like to research very much for trading.

 

[Seraiel]

Looks like Deity is not for me quite yet. I think I'm going to jump back to Immortal until I can play it with comfort with tough leaders

Thank you all for the input; I think I just lack the experience of grand strategy I guess.

As TMIT once wrote, the way from Immortal to Deity is as long as the way from Noble to Immortal.

 

[GKey]

Getting gold from lost overflow is a future of Unofficial Patch, which is included in BULL (BUG dll). BUG mod itself does not fix this.