- deleted thread -

[Squonk]

Well I normally would disagree with the idea entirely, but considering as the
Cordoba caliphate, infact muslim spain itself, was practically a seperate civilization
unto itself, with other empires coming from it.

Though I would much rather see the visigoths instead, or atleast the barbarians.

the Umayyads in Spain were far from being a separate civ. They were separate politically, but not culturally. They were sunni as most of the muslim Arab world, their major law school was one of those of Middleeastern origin, they celebrated middleeastern poets, scholars and singers. Until X century they didn't even have pretensions to caliphate. So the caliphate period was only a bit longer than 100 years. And half a century later came Almoravids, later Almohads. So even political separation ceased.
No new empires spread from Umayyads of Spain. Only a number of small leftovers that relatively quickly became the prey of Spaniards and Berbers.

 

[Thor Macklin]

the Umayyads in Spain were far from being a separate civ. They were separate politically, but not culturally. They were sunni as most of the muslim Arab world, their major law school was one of those of Middleeastern origin, they celebrated middleeastern poets, scholars and singers. Until X century they didn't even have pretensions to caliphate. So the caliphate period was only a bit longer than 100 years. And half a century later came Almoravids, later Almohads. So even political separation ceased.
No new empires spread from Umayyads of Spain. Only a number of small leftovers that relatively quickly became the prey of Spaniards and Berbers.

So my term use is faulty.

Now overall their actual role in history was to be a target for the reconquest of
spain. But for the idea of the muslims of spain (I have yet to put much effort into
studying them.) The moors of spain were an ideal representative for a north
african civilization, as well as a foe for spain. But overall the arabs are far more
important, as were the visigoths.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

\\ Poland! FTW!.... Does I repeat myself? O_o

 

[YourDeath/TSAR]

BYZANTINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (justinian I or basil II) the byzantine empire was the continuashion of the roman empire,preserved its culture, science, but also converted to christianism. (mather of a fact, the byzantine empire is in the opening video (when the hagia sophia is shown)
AUSTRIA-HUNGARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (archeduke joseph) was a huge empire in europe, was ruled by the most powerful family of europe, the Hasburs, and was doing a leading role in WW1
PHOENICIA/CARTHAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (hannibal) huge trade empire, dominated the mediteranean sea for centuries and was highly developed. it also was the first state to have sailed around africa.
PAPAL STATE!!!!!!!!!! had a huge impact on europe from 1000 till 1800, organized the crusades, the seat of the largest religion in the worl, Catholisism

 

[Thor Macklin]

Byzantine: It's Christianity, we're not an ism. This list is valuable, the byzantines
are overpraised thugsters who controlled the land they did through bribery,
arranged marriages by pawning off their princesses like hookers. They were
only a massive empire under Justinian, who actually was a weak coward and
had to have his general Belisarius conquer for him. They were only able to
stop the Arab siege thanks to the help of the Bulgars, who they thanked by
conquering their land. And for the most part were ruled by leaders who were
about as competent at leading a nation as the Three Stooges. The only half
decent leaders they had left little impact because their pathetic descendents
immediatly went and botched up what little progress had been made. Now
the reason for adding them would be that, unlike their greek predecessors, they
did not have tiny little colonies to pick off one by one, they had HUGE TRACKS
OF LAND (monty python bit mind you all.) to pick off one by one.
*************************************************
Austria-Hungary: A nation hell-bent on keeping together a failed project that during
it's history as Austria-Hungary did not have a single competent leader. (The only
leaders Austria had that were decent led the AUSTRIAN empire, not the Austro-
Hungarian.) Now even though Joseph is a very well-known leader, he was hardly
a roll model, we might as well use Kaiser Wilhelm for germany. And they may have
started world war I, but overall it was Germany's War. All they did was screw up on
every front and constantly run to the germans to help, without actually giving any
help in return. They even failed to defeat serbia, a country they were 14 times larger
than.
*************************************************
Phonecia: They own. 'Nuff said. Though I don't know if they sailed all around africa.
Can anyone verify the validity of this comment?
*************************************************
Papal State: No, never much of an empire, unless of course you include the
conquests of all the crusades (the Teutonic Knights, the Holy Land, and Valencia.)
THEN you have an empire.

 

[lolno]

I'd rank them according to these factors:
1 - How unique they are (geography, language, culture) compared to others already in game
2 - Their historic influence and power
3 - Being in earlier civs

IMO..

-Central Asia- 2 Civs
+Huns - probably Xiongnu/Yeniseians, but after they moved West- otherwise they'd be under East Asia
+Sumerians - possible that they migrated to ME from Central Asia according to leading Assyriologists

-East Africa- 1 Civ
+Axum - "Ethiopia"?

-East Asia- 6 Civs
+Jurchen - including Xianbei, Manchu
+Tibetans - don't laugh, see "Tibetan Empire", were a major power in Early Middle Ages and regional player from then on, should get mention esp. considering their numbers
+Korea - as has been said before, they are historically significant regional power
(China)
(Japan)
(Mongols)

-Europe- 10 Civs
+Poland
+Celts
+Norse
(Rome)
(Greece)
(England)
(Spain)
(France)
(Russia)
(Germany)

-Mesoamerica- 2 Civs
+Maya
(Aztec)

-North Africa- 2 Civs
+Phoenicians
(Egypt)

-North America- 2 Civs
(United States)
(Iroquois)

-South America- 1 Civ
(Inca)

-South Asia- 2 Civs
(India)
(Persia)

-Southeast Asia- 3 Civs
+Khmer - Don't know much but they seem to be popular
+"Indonesia" - Same as above
(Siam)

-Sub-Saharan Africa- 1 Civ
+Zulu

-West Asia- 3 Civs
(Arabs)
(Babylon)
(Ottoman)

-West Africa- 1 Civ
(Songhai)

+14 Total (22 in Game)

It seems like most of the civs are fairly "generalized", "multi-ethnic" civs focused on a region and spanning the ages, i.e they have Ottomans representing Anatolians and Rome for Italy. Most of the above would fit in I think; more NA cultures could be added in but I wouldn't know which.

Example:

Tibet - Songtsan Gampo
UA - Heart of the Snow Lion - Happiness increased by 25%. No combat penalties while within cultural borders.
UU - Mi Ser - Replaces worker, costs less to train and maintain. Builds a little culture per turn while working (2-4 or so)
UU - Lama - Replaces Great Artist, culture bomb also increases happiness by 50% for 10 turns.

Related Wonder - Potala Palace - +1 Culture per Specialist

A little anachronistic but oh well.

 

[ilikepies]

No Austria-Hungary. Including Austria-Hungary would overlap with at least 4 or 5 city-states, and I don't think that we need another European civ.

Phoenicia would be really cool and be good for representing the Middle East.. but what leaders, cities, units, buildings and such would they have? I would much rather have Carthage. So yes to Carthage.

Papal States.... are you kidding? They have like 1,000 people and half of them are weak old priests who can't do anything.

Byzantium: Overlaps with both Ottomans and Rome, seems completely redundant to me. And btw, the Hagia Sophia shown has four large towers, it's from Ottoman Istanbul, not from the Byzantine era.

Zulu: Yes!
Maya: Yes!
Vikings: Yes!

I'd like to see some Indonesian/Australian civs, but the fact is that Indonesia or Australia never had the slightest impact on world history. Sorry.

Poland... as much as I like it, and Winged Hussars are awesome, Poland was a major power for maybe a few centuries at most, and even then it split the title with other European civs that far outlasted it. Keep it as a city state. Sweden would be ok, but it also had a somewhat short lifespan and overlaps with Vikings, which were just way cooler.

Honestly, I know nothing about Ethiopia. If it was ever a major power or important, then sure.

And Celts would be cool, but it seems they overlap with literally every other European power, culturally, geographically, historically...

 

[lolno]

The cool thing about the Celts is that they were so different from Christian Europe, the language, society, etc.

So in reality it's more like they got bulldozed and civ planted on their faces like the Inca/Iroquois. Lots of "what ifs".

 

[Pouakai]

Example:

Tibet - Songtsan Gampo
UA - Heart of the Snow Lion - Happiness increased by 25%. No combat penalties while within cultural borders.
UU - Mi Ser - Replaces worker, costs less to train and maintain. Builds a little culture per turn while working (2-4 or so)
UU - Lama - Replaces Great Artist, culture bomb also increases happiness by 50% for 10 turns.

Related Wonder - Potala Palace - +1 Culture per Specialist

A little anachronistic but oh well.

Would it be to OP to have the culture bomb not have as much diplo reprocussion?

 

[Fanatic Noob]

Poland... as much as I like it, and Winged Hussars are awesome, Poland was a major power for maybe a few centuries at most, and even then it split the title with other European civs that far outlasted it. Keep it as a city state.

But Poland rise again after WW1, and fought in WW2, and is as developing nation in Europe currently.

 

[IgorS]

Poland was a major power for maybe a few centuries at most

I don't think that this is a good argument. If a civ was strong even for only 100 years, they still had an impact.

 

[lolno]

Would it be to OP to have the culture bomb not have as much diplo reprocussion?

That would work too

 

[HorribleHarald]

The best suggestion is definitely Moorish Civ; North African & European civ. I would suggest leader Abd ar Rahman III, UU Mujaffafa (knight) UB Medina quarter and UA Moorish architecture.

 

[Fanatic Noob]

I don't think that this is a good argument. If a civ was strong even for only 100 years, they still had an impact.

Yeah! So "yeah" for Poland in official expansion pack.

 

[OrNy]

Insead of Hungary , it should be the Austro-Hungarian empire . With Francis Joseph I as the leader .

Macedonian empire should be added too . With Karanus as the leader (Being the first leader of the Macendonian empire) .

Great Seljuq Empire . I know we already have the Ottomans but in the same region Persia , Babylon and the macedonians lived . The leader should be Tuğrul Beg .

The Dutch should be added too .

 

[Fanatic Noob]

2. Poland were a regional power for a quite long time, not only a century or a few. I would even say 5 centuries or more.

Yeah, and do not forget that Poland formed Union of two nations with Lithuania, and was then really super power in this part of World.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Austria (not Austria-Hungary though, that was too shortlived in comparison to Austria), and Portugal.

I also think Poland would be nice.

 

[PEACE!]

the dacians,leader-Decebalus

Definetly oh please please please!!!

 

[Fanatic Noob]

Austria (not Austria-Hungary though, that was too shortlived in comparison to Austria), and Portugal.

I also think Poland would be nice.

Thanks for support. I will support Brazil for exchange

 

[PEACE!]

just a minor proposal...adding a poll?