Design: Civilizations

[Corlindale]

But if a civ can't make use of Jungle I think we should remove it via a mapscript

.

I don't think jungle should be removed. What other terrain can better represent untamed wilderness? It's always a bit of a gamble to send scouts on jungle expeditions. And settling in jungles is a laborous affair, but often worth it because rare resources can be found there. I kind of like them, even though getting a jungle start would be pretty sad.

 

[woodelf]

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I don't think jungle should be removed. What other terrain can better represent untamed wilderness? It's always a bit of a gamble to send scouts on jungle expeditions. And settling in jungles is a laborous affair, but often worth it because rare resources can be found there. I kind of like them, even though getting a jungle start would be pretty sad.

How about a mapscript that lessened it's appearance some? Right now I restart if I start in the middle of a jungle. The is a killer. Yeah, some of the best goodies are there too, good point.

 

[seZereth]

hell i am done with reading this thread, and i have to admit you guys are really creative, before i started reading, i thought "yea i will have to find time for playing a game of FfH2 to get a better feel" now i think i will have to play 16 games, cause every civ looks so damn unique. btw did anyone of you play dominions II from illwinter games ?!

 

[loki1232]

hell i am done with reading this thread, and i have to admit you guys are really creative, before i started reading, i thought "yea i will have to find time for playing a game of FfH2 to get a better feel" now i think i will have to play 16 games, cause every civ looks so damn unique. btw did anyone of you play dominions II from illwinter games ?!

Certainly not me.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Corlindale, woodelf,

Yes, Jungles are pretty sad. I know a little bit about them. I went to French Guyana, in South America, during a military training. Dirty, wet, full of small beasts that eat your skin and more (if they can have an access) ,....so Hell.

So, why not a civ that can resist to all these ?

Not many thing would have to be created. Many units could be token from the Orc Civ. A palace, probably a special worker, a batiment,... an history of the Lizardmen,...

As a British Sergeant told me: Wait and see...

The Frog.

 

[Corlindale]

Hmm...perhaps we could have the Lizardmen civ worship the barbarian red dragon. The dragon would be in the middle of their lands, and they'd be defending it. Perhaps they'd join the civ that defeated it, if any survived at that point.
I don't really want them attached to the other dragons, as those are special for the Kuriotates and the Sheaim.

 

[woodelf]

That's a decent compromise Corlindale.

Hian - you sound like our Lizzy/Jungle expert.

 

[loki1232]

I'm starting to really like this idea. Would they be ai only, or human as well? I think that they shouldn't have the barb trait, since they are more civilized that other barbs.

Btw, Hian is starting to sound like quite an interesting guy. (guessing french commando)

 

[woodelf]

I'm starting to really like this idea. Would they be ai only, or human as well? I think that they shouldn't have the barb trait, since they are more civilized that other barbs.

Btw, Hian is starting to sound like quite an interesting guy. (guessing french commando)

I think it depends on how to incorporate them. If they "appear" in a swamp after the Cult is founded then they'd be AI. If enough people bang on Kael's door that he has to add them then they may as well be player as well. There are beautiful units out there already. Plus I don't think they need their own sphere. Maybe a Subterranean (if that gets added) and Jungle trait?

I'm keeping Hian on my good side JIC!

JIC = Just in Case Hian.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Everybody from the Team,

In fact, if Keal and his friends agrees of course, there is 2 possibilities:

a) As Corlindale says. The Lizardmen workship the Red Dragon and....read Corlindale post.

b) A true civ, that could also workship the Red Dragon, and have his own story, bonus and malus, units, ....

As you can suppose, i would prefer b).

As i will not work for many weeks, probably months in fact, if you want i can work on this idea. I let you think about it. It's your mod....

(I'm not Commando, just Master Sergeant Gunner and/or Chief in an Tank, either a light one or our big Leclerc. It depend on what is the theater of operation)

The Frog.

 

[CurtisC]

I would love, love, to design an undead civ for Ffh2. I'm talking about a true undead civ here. City population could only increase with kills, no growth from food. To offset this you'd need huge penalties in tile working, and maybe in unit experience. On the other hand the tech tree probably wouldn't make much sense.

Let me know if there is any interest.

 

[seZereth]

About those lizardmen and stuf...
I think Lizardman as seperate race sounds good, it would have enough unique things to add something to the game.
What i wondered, did you link the orcs with the lizardmen cause of a flavour, cause of the orcs needing these units from a gameplay point of view... or what was the reason, i am a little bit oldfashioned, but i cant get familiar with the lizardman being part (allies...) of the "orcish" civ.
So i personally would prefer a seperated lizardman race and a true orc/goblin greenskin civ

Thats just a feeling

 

[Hian the Frog]

About those lizardmen and stuf...
I think Lizardman as seperate race sounds good, it would have enough unique things to add something to the game.
What i wondered, did you link the orcs with the lizardmen cause of a flavour, cause of the orcs needing these units from a gameplay point of view... or what was the reason, i am a little bit oldfashioned, but i cant get familiar with the lizardman being part (allies...) of the "orcish" civ.
So i personally would prefer a seperated lizardman race and a true orc/goblin greenskin civ

Thats just a feeling

seZereth,

You are not oldfashioned, it's only your point of view. Lizardmen could stay a part of Orcish civ... a story of Lizardmen could explain that.
When you look at the Human race/civ some are "good", others "neutral" or "evil". Why not Lizardmen? The race may have split into two (or more) groups which have adopt differents ways of live, cults, ....
Even if a true "greenskin civ" would be fun, Kael and his friends Orcish civ is very fun to play . I just don't like the trait "sco" but an Orc is an orc: barbarian, natural born killer,...

I just don't know what the Team think about a Lizardmen Civ. Would they include it ? Is it easy to do ?

Wait and see...

The Frog.

 

[woodelf]

Another vote for Lizzies!

 

[Sisonpyh]

Jumping on the Lizardmen becoming a Civ bandwagon. They could be made extremely interesting to play with water walking and all. And then maybe the Orcs will get more Orcy type units instead of lizards. As it is, Orc don't feel very 'Orcish' and most of their units and abilities seem sort of vanilla save for Lizardmen ones.

 

[Chalid]

What i wondered, did you link the orcs with the lizardmen cause of a flavour, cause of the orcs needing these units from a gameplay point of view... or what was the reason, i am a little bit oldfashioned, but i cant get familiar with the lizardman being part (allies...) of the "orcish" civ.

The clue here is that the Clan of Embers is not a orc civ but more or less the unification of Nonhumen races, orcs, ogres, goblins, lizardmen, whatever Pseudohuman we find.

So there is nothing that speaks against an extra Race of Lizardmen that are Seperate from the Clans of Ember. We might try to flesh out the other civs some more before we think about adding additional ones i thin.



About the Undead. I do not like the undead to be a seperate Civ. Therer has to be a leading mind behind them and undeadth is covered nicely by the death sphere.
I would like it much more if undead was a way your mages treat your People... For example right now you can get three additional Archmages when you turn your first three archmages into Liches. This concept seems intersting for other units as well.
Maybe we could add additional Death mana only units (Necromancer) that would require death mana to be built (diplomatic penalty!) and allow to turn other units into undeads as well. So you could turn your Axemen into Undead Axmen and so forth. The Advantage could be that undead units would not cost any financial support, but they would all have the undead promotion and be easy targest for destroy unded spells and undead slaying units. Maybe they would have otehr advantages/disadvantages as well.

 

[Corlindale]

Maybe we could add additional Death mana only units (Necromancer) that would require death mana to be built (diplomatic penalty!) and allow to turn other units into undeads as well. So you could turn your Axemen into Undead Axmen and so forth. The Advantage could be that undead units would not cost any financial support, but they would all have the undead promotion and be easy targest for destroy unded spells and undead slaying units. Maybe they would have otehr advantages/disadvantages as well.

That's a great idea

 

[woodelf]

Seconded. I like that idea as well CHalid.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Chalid, Corlindale, Woodelf,

About the undead, it would be a great idea... I nearly never use Undead Slaying promotion (as many players i suppose). With an increased number of undead, it would be very useful...and fun.

And the Lizardmen, deeply hidden in theirs jungles, still wait their recognition...

The Frog

 

[woodelf]

Once Kael gets settled in back at home we can bug him about a Lizardmen civ.