Design: Spells

[Kael]

you should make a level two conjurer spell where he can create a gargoyle while in a city. The city will then have a gargoyle protector which will only spawn when an enemy is within two spaces of the city and then continue to rest once the enemy has fled or been vanquished.

This is similar to the Malakim's Citadel of Light that will spawn a fireball if an enemy appears within 2 tiles.

A gargoyle may be added, but it will probably be a buildable defensive unit (maybe with a bonus against "evil spirits") and not a spell.

 

[kevjm]

I know it's far too early for this suggestion, but how about a pheonix spell which requires Death 3, Life 3 and Fire 1, 2 or 3? (And sorcery 3, of course).

If you have lost a hero in battle over the game, you can sacrifice the unit and have it re-born as a fallen hero of your choice (if you've lost more than one over the course of the game).

 

[Alter Ego]

Sun Sphere

Skin Cancer - Effectively dooms the target unit, giving it a set amount of turns left to live in (high chance of resist)
Sun Tap - Caster drains the sun's energy to increase his own power; caster gains a small amount of xp and the tile is transformed to snow/tundra

 

[kevjm]

I know you're probably joking, but a skin cancer spell could potentially upset some people... would you be able to cure it as well?

 

[Alter Ego]

Nah, only white people die from skin cancer so it won't offend the PC establishment (did he just do it again? ).

Seriously though, I think the basic idea is good enough, but difficult to balance ... the factors to be taken in consideration are 1) spell level, 2) duration and 3) chance of resistance. For instance, having it autoresisted by hero units, world units and/or national units could be a way to balance it. Oh, and the spell can be renamed "Sunburn" or "Solar Flare", since "Skin Cancer" or "Overexposed" is just the promotion the target unit gets.

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

Are you guys working on combo spells like spells that take chaos 1 and mind 1

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

Instead of skin cancer have it be Sun Stroke and causes Illness that way

 

[Kael]

Are you guys working on combo spells like spells that take chaos 1 and mind 1

Nothing right now. Its a possibility for the future and we have talked about it, but right now we are more concerned with filling the single spell slots with the best possible working spells.

 

[loki1232]

Sun Sphere

Skin Cancer - Effectively dooms the target unit, giving it a set amount of turns left to live in (high chance of resist)

Not really funny at all...

Life sum II: Centaur-a cavalry type unit with a bonus against archers and -25% against cities.

 

[Sisonpyh]

Thing that bugs me about the Mana system:

If I build an Adept, then I expand and find and build different mana nodes, the Adept/Mage/Conjuror whatever doesn't get that new mana node spell sphere promotion. If a Civ gets access to a mana node, I think every caster already built should get the upgrade.

As it is, Mana does not seem important at all, which doesn't seem right. The Adepts in my game that usually become the Archmages/Summoners end up never taking the advantage any Mana nodes whatsoever because I usually build them early in the game. Shouldn't Mana nodes be similar to Oil? Nations should go to war over them for the power and want to prevent their neighbors from having access.

Also, maybe add a few more ways a caster can gain XP. How about, if a caster fortifies inside a Ancient Temple, he gains xp a bit faster. Or a Wizard Tower building and once you build 7 or so, you can build a Magic academy national wonder that increase caster's xp gain rate.

 

[woodelf]

If you have Wonders that give mana, and a healthy amount (>3) nodes of different spheres then mana is very important. Instead of wasting xp on those spheres you can learn other stuff. I agree that the AI doesn't value mana well yet, but it is Beta.

I'm on the fence about your first point. Maybe the magic user should be allowed to go to a city with a Library (or some building) and meditate for x number of turns and learn the new sphere that way without using xp?

 

[Chalid]

@Sisonpyh: Obviosly your Post seems a bit self contradicting! If you think that Mana Nodes are not worth building Adepts and Mages should actually get XP slower. That a Mana nod (=starting spell) will give you an distinct advantage.

That Nodes you built later do not give additional Spell spheres is intended. Otherwise ther would be several Exploits available for players. For example Built several Adepts. Then built a node. Pillage that node built another node on the same place and so forth. This way all your adepts get each sphere at level one.
I would prefer that nodes work in a different way. Eitehr you get freee XP when your Spellcasters learn Spheres where you have a node. Or you get XP slower for Adepts if you have not as much Manas available as Spell Spheres.

So for example if your Adept has Fire I and you have no Fire Node the XP gain for that Adpet is halved, If he has Water I and Fire I and non of thes nodes his XP gain is even lower (maybe 1/4). If you have an Mage with Fire II you wuld need two Fire Manas to get the full XP. This system would make Nodes quite Valuable, but its downside is that it adds a lot of additional Computing time each turn. Others have to decide if that is worth it - and again of cours the AI - how to teach it to learn the right Spells/Built the right nodes is again a difficult task.

 

[phoulishwan]

I think the earlier Adepts have a huge advantage in leveling up compared to the later ones due to the nature of the barbarian attackers. Earlier Adepts can easily be used in melee capacity and thus gain xp's much faster, so it's a nice balance as you expand and gain more nodes you're casters start stronger. But the early ones will usually outpace them as they have become far more powerful from they're early physical early days. The only limiting factor is they don't have the potential to be as powerful as your later casters because they didn't get as many free promotions.

On a side note, I like using skeletons early but I also would never want to build a death node because of it's diplomatic modifier, using Death Magic as a promotion without having the node doesn't confer the penalty. I personally think that if you use Death, Chaos or Entropy magic you should suffer the consequences wether or not you actually have a node of that type built. As it stands you could build a very evil force of mages but circumvent the penalties by paying xp for the promotions.

 

[Kael]

I think the earlier Adepts have a huge advantage in leveling up compared to the later ones due to the nature of the barbarian attackers. Earlier Adepts can easily be used in melee capacity and thus gain xp's much faster, so it's a nice balance as you expand and gain more nodes you're casters start stronger. But the early ones will usually outpace them as they have become far more powerful from they're early physical early days. The only limiting factor is they don't have the potential to be as powerful as your later casters because they didn't get as many free promotions.

Your right, nodes become more important in closer games where you are actually losing archmages. If you are playign a less challenging game and you actually keep your archmage for the duration then starting builds become less important.

I also think that we need a bigger bonus for having multiple nodes of the same type which could help with this.

On a side note, I like using skeletons early but I also would never want to build a death node because of it's diplomatic modifier, using Death Magic as a promotion without having the node doesn't confer the penalty. I personally think that if you use Death, Chaos or Entropy magic you should suffer the consequences wether or not you actually have a node of that type built. As it stands you could build a very evil force of mages but circumvent the penalties by paying xp for the promotions.

When we make multiple nodes worth more this will be harder to do (you will be denying yourself access to the death, entroy and chaos wonders) but I like the fact that even if you are the good guys you can have some rogue mage working for you that has learned death magic.

We may want to consider some balance here, so for example it becomes impossible to buy death 3 if you dont own a death node. But thats really hard from an ai prespective and forces players to have to get nodes to advance. Which was never my intent. Nodes should be a nice boost if you have them but not death if you dont (unlike oil).

 

[eerr]

perhaps you should reconsider spells sphere desing for things like summoning meteors, becoming liches, tsunamies ect, a new system where the final promotion for each sphere transforms the caster into a type of "avatar", such that the final fire promotion allows you to summon meteors.

these new elementals would become new units unable to become avatars of other types and would loose proficiencies in opposite spheres(fire avatars would loose water and nature spere proficiencys ect) but would allow access to the single best spell in the sphere(such as summon meteors)

 

[upthorn]

perhaps you should reconsider spells sphere desing for things like summoning meteors, becoming liches, tsunamies ect, a new system where the final promotion for each sphere transforms the caster into a type of "avatar", such that the final fire promotion allows you to summon meteors.

these new elementals would become new units unable to become avatars of other types and would loose proficiencies in opposite spheres(fire avatars would loose water and nature spere proficiencys ect) but would allow access to the single best spell in the sphere(such as summon meteors)

This would add complexity without adding fun. Also, I believe the consensus is that the fewer restrictions the mod puts on the player, the better. If he wants to put all his eggs in one basket by making an archmage with level 3 in every sphere, why shouldn't he be able to?

Besides, if he does that, he's actually at a disadvantage, because the mage can still only cast one spell per turn, and an opposing player can take out a significant investment just by killing one unit.

 

[Sisonpyh]

This would add complexity without adding fun. Also, I believe the consensus is that the fewer restrictions the mod puts on the player, the better. If he wants to put all his eggs in one basket by making an archmage with level 3 in every sphere, why shouldn't he be able to?

Besides, if he does that, he's actually at a disadvantage, because the mage can still only cast one spell per turn, and an opposing player can take out a significant investment just by killing one unit.

If they have Lichdom and/or Spellstaff, they can cast more than once per turn. A combo of Enchant/Death/Fire III would be devasting.

 

[Kael]

If they have Lichdom and/or Spellstaff, they can cast more than once per turn. A combo of Enchant/Death/Fire III would be devasting.

Yeah I think the most meteors ever dropped in a turn was 12 from a Lich with a spellstaff. Truely devastating. An Eater of Dreams could do more, but only defensivly.

 

[eerr]

perhaps if that is too much, then the spellcasters could have a 4th promotion in the line that makes them into a truly powerful fighting unit, one actually capable of killing to raise "it's" xp for levels(maybe alternate effects like immortal for ie body)?

or maybe just some sort of avatar type for water air body and fire that each have access to the elemental spells of their type?

(give me elemental avatars or i will hunt you down with my water walking fire 3 lich!
also, i was thinking of maybe, a meta magic spell called synergy that would allow two casters to combine their magic promotions in a single field (letting an archmage with metamagic 2 combine with a fire 3 summoner to cast meteor strike)?

 

[Moon Hunter]

just a quick suggestion: howabout making the rank 1 fire spell scorch also turn ice into tundra?

i mean the heat definitely melts some of the ice, if it can turn plains into desert

but definitelz not tundra into plains... thats reserved for the vitalize land spell...