1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

Discussion in 'Civilization Design Resources' started by GPuzzle, May 16, 2015.

  1. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Why won't you just split it? You would do this anyway, no?
     
  2. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Auburn, AL
    I dunno about later Moroccan monarchs not being interesting. Granted, I do find a lot of the Saadi monarchs post Ahmad al-Mansur to be relatively minor (whether due to lack of sufficient information) or overall pathetic, and this is also relatively the case with a lot of the Alaouite monarchs, but there are a few diamonds in the rough (namely Mohammed IV and Hassan I who both sought, albeit unsuccessfully, to modernize Morocco and resist colonial domination, and Mohammed V, who became the first post-colonial Sultan, and later King, of Morocco.)

    But I digress. Here's my idea for such a split.

    In this, the original Moroccan Civilization has the Berber Cavalry replaced with the earlier Black Guard, a unit that was used during the reign of Ismail Moulay. With this I wanted to simulate the Black Guards role as collecting taxes as well as maintaining order with fierce loyalty towards their sultan.

    This civ is for the 19th and early 20th century Morocco, whether it is a pre-colonial Alaouite Morocco or Rif Republic. I've adopted Natan's Unique Building variant of the Kasbah, but renamed it Ksar and gave it a little buff, as a tribute to its status as a trade hub. However it is all and all, a defense-minded civ, playing into the strengths of the Berber Cavalry, and also, in the case of the Rif moreso, to how the Riffians fought during the Rif War.

    Tell me what you guys think about it?
     
  3. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,487
    Location:
    Chile
    That could potentially be a lot of science, particularly early game.
     
  4. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Auburn, AL
    It does, doesn't it? I wasn't sure is 25% was too OP, but I went with it anyway.
     
  5. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,487
    Location:
    Chile
    That's not the half that worries me, it's the +1 Science from Desert tiles, with a Desert bias the civilization will shoot up real fast really soon. It'd be a snowball that's impossible to stop.
     
  6. TranquilSilence

    TranquilSilence Grumpy Snufkin

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Messages:
    1,471
    Location:
    Bright Side of the Road
    Aye, this is compounded by the fact that you don't even have to work the desert tiles, so it doesn't even have the drawback of a desert tile's usual lackluster yields. So yeah, the second civ could certainly do with some rebalancing.

    Asides from that, I'm pretty interested in seeing some more designs for redesigned Morocco - though I don't know much about Moroccan history.
     
  7. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Auburn, AL
    Would removing the +1 help to keep the UA from being too OP over time?
     
  8. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Except, The Black guard is Alaouite, and the Ksar is rather ancient... Anyway, my take at a modern Morocco:

    Alaouite Dynasty(Hassan I)
    UA: The Western country
    Units ending their turn in :c5citystate: city state territory take damage, but grant :c5gold: gold equal to the :c5influence: influence you have with them. Each :trade: trade route sent to you reduces the influence decay with :c5citystate: city states by 10%(max. 50%) and grants you +1 :c5culture: culture and +1 :c5gold: gold for the owner per each friendly :c5citystate: city states.

    UU: Black Guard
    Replaces rifleman. Unlike it, produced faster per each stolen worker you own, and may be healed instantly by consuming stolen workers(this also grants the unit a permanent 5% :c5strength: combat bonus). Stronger(36 :c5strength:) and does not suffer combat penalties from unhappiness, in addition to gaining a 50% bonus while fighting in the desert.

    UB: Kasbah
    Unlocked at chivalry, the Kasbah replaces the Castle. It grants +1 :c5culture: culture, and even more based on the number of trade routes sent to the city. In addition, Kasbahs yield +3 :c5gold: gold and +2 :c5culture: culture per each 50 turns they exist.
     
  9. Howard Tafty

    Howard Tafty Minister-Chairman

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Indefinite Solitude
    I wouldnt mind seeing the making morroco... both of course pre-colonial and my own post-colonial vision

    Post-Colonial:
     
  10. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,487
    Location:
    Chile
    Err... how come the precolonization Morocco ended up having the Askari? Shouldn't it have the Blackguard instead? (or the Berber Cavalry)
     
  11. Klisz

    Klisz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    805
    That's not so much post-colonial as just colonial. :p
     
  12. Howard Tafty

    Howard Tafty Minister-Chairman

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Indefinite Solitude
    It's an imperialist joke people, get with the olden times :p anyways ask the magic of wikipedia:
     
  13. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Yeah, no offence, but...
    I really don't understand this. You give me a renaissance era UB that will occasionally increase my science by less then 1% and my gold output by... Pretty much the same rate? That's hardly useful....
    (Unless you build an insane wide empire but than you'll have other problems to deal with).
    I think the second part of the UA and the second UU are nice.
    (UB of the second civ is awesome and will give about 6 culture each...)

    Now, Republic of the Rif!

    Republic of the Rif(Muhammad Ibn 'Abd al-Karim al-Khattabi)
    UA: Berber resistance
    Each unit trained in a city will grant it +1 :c5strength: strength and will increase the starting XP of any units from the same upgrade line trained in the city. Desert tiles are 50% more cheaper to expand into and will grant :c5production: production towards units upon being integrated into your empire.

    UU: Berber Cavalry
    Being weaker(32 :c5strength:) and cheaper than the cavalry which it replaces, the Berber cavalry has a 5% :c5strength: combat boost against enemy units per each level it is higher than them, which is increased to 10% if the Berber cavalry is injured. Does not obsolete, and starts with the "guardian of the desert" promotion, granting it +25% bonus in desert tiles which is doubled in friendly tiles, and allowing it to gain defensive terrain bonuses in them.

    UI: Ksar
    May only be built on flat desert tiles, never adjacent to each other and takes 8 times to be built? +1 :c5gold: gold, +1 :c5food: food, and additional 1 :c5gold: gold after economics. Also yields +1 :c5food: food near sources of fresh water, and +1 :c5production: production near strategic resources(per each resource adjacent).
     
  14. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Auburn, AL
    That's usually how I play. I build insanely wide empires because, I like to see how many cities I can build and utilize.

    That being said, what do you mean by units being integrated into your empire?
     
  15. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Well, I doubt you build arsenals very often.
    I was referring to the tiles.
     
  16. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Auburn, AL
    I hardly do, I prefer cultural victories over everything else. All my Civ V wins have been by spamming culture.
     
  17. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Well we have something in common :D
    Nothing like massacring everyone other than one civ and wining spamming Landmarks.
     
  18. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle Available in wax cylinder!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    алриг
    This is gonna be a big one. These are so far the basic designs I have for CulDec, which is an addon that connects both CulDiv and E&D.

    So, yeah, rip them apart.
     
  19. DonStamos

    DonStamos Mobster Inc©

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    United States
    I seriously need to share some of my Decisions ideas with you, GPuzzle, in the hope that you might like a few enough to use them. I'll see about that tomorrow evening.

    But right now, I just got a light bulb on a Civ I'd been thinking about lately. I'd promised Howard Tafty an Imperial design that brought the fearsome Stormtroopers of the movies to bear, so here you are:

    Palpatine
    :c5capital: Imperial Center

    UA: New Order
    Units you control gain +10% Strength vs. Units and +20% City Attack against Civilizations you have denounced; this bonus also applies to Barbarian Units and Encampments. Military units that end their turns within 2 squares of a Grand Admiral gain a unique promotion.

    Unique Promotions
    Spoiler :
    501st Legion (Melee/Gunpowder units): Grant +5% Combat Strength to each adjacent Melee and Gunpowder unit, up to 20%.
    Raptor Squad (Archery/Ranged units): Grant +5% Combat Strength to each adjacent Archery/Ranged unit, up to 20%.
    Blizzard Squad (Mounted and Armor units): Grant +5% Combat Strength to each adjacent Mounted and Armor unit, up to 20%.
    Battle Station Command (Siege units): Grant +5 Combat Strength to each adjacent Siege unit, up to 20%.
    181st Fighter Squadron (Fighter units): Deals additional damage when intercepting.
    Scimitar Squadron (Bomber units): Takes less damage when intercepted.
    Chimaera Squadron (Ranged Naval units): Grant +5% combat strength to adjacent Ranged Naval units, up to 20%.
    Executor Squadron (Melee Naval units): Grant +5% combat strength to adjacent Melee Naval units, up to 20%.

    I did reach a little for some of the unit names:

    501st Legion were the elite Stormtroopers, also called Vader's Fist.
    Raptors were elite troopers under Warlord Zsinj (from the novels); I couldn't come up with a better ranged name.
    Blizzard Squad were the AT-ATs and AT-STs under the command of Major General Veers at the Battle of Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back.
    Battle Station Command was a special siege unit headed by Grand Moff Tarkin at some point (this is EU material)
    181st Fighter Squadron were the elite TIE Fighter pilots, the Imperial equivalent to Rogue Squadron
    Scimitar Squadron were the elite TIE Bomber pilots
    Chimaera Squadron is named after Thrawn's flagship Chimaera; he did not generally employ direct ship-to-ship combat.
    Executor Squadron is named after the Super Star Destroyer. I couldn't come up with anything better.


    UU: Grand Admiral
    Replaces the Great General. Rather than building Citadels, Grand Admirals build Imperial Academies. In addition to the effects of a Citadel, Imperial Academies spawn additional Melee or Gunpowder units whenever war is declared. Conquered cities suffer no turns of resistance while occupied by a Grand Admiral.

    UU: Stormtrooper
    Replaces Infantry, and has the same attributes. Receives a 20% combat bonus while flanking and generates twice the amount of points toward a Grand Admiral.

    =================================

    The idea is to be an extreme warmonger. I don't often find myself Denouncing, and I thought it would be nifty to give Denouncements a bit more of an effect for a Civ. It also illustrates the Emperor's complete control of his troopers' opinions.

    The Grand Admiral is somewhat confusing. They're modeled after the 12 (plus Thrawn) Grand Admirals named by Palpatine in the EU material (novels, games, etc). They are meant to be military savants, able to bring the best out of their units. This is why they grant unique promotions to unit classes; their ability to improve that class of units. You'll get very strong units, but it will take effort on the player's part to get more than a handful of them. I wanted to replace both Great Generals and Admirals with them, but felt that would be too confusing. In Star Wars, Imperial Admirals are clearly the main military leaders outside Vader and the Emperor himself, given that Imperial Generals were limited to planetside commands for the most part. Great Admirals are unaffected, and could be renamed to Great Captains or some such to avoid confusion. Giving Citadels a buff seemed pretty nifty IMO, too. Air units need only end their turn in a city within 2 tiles of a Grand Admiral to get their effects. The Great General list would be customized (and expanded to add other leaders, like Pellaeon and Veers, who were significant but not actually Grand Admirals - this helps keep the list from running out).

    While the Stormtroopers in Thrawn's earlier design supported his playstyle (and flavor), so do these Stormtroopers. They're meant to attack. More Grand Admirals = more promotions and Imperial Academies. More Imperial Academies means more units on DoW. More promotions = stronger units. All of which make Palpatine a more potent warmonger.

    Since so many beings hated him, I didn't feel the least bit of remorse that he can't handle the happiness hits he's going to get. I did toy with a UB that is instantly built on conquest, but increases long-term unhappiness, though. I decided I liked the Grand Admiral better.

    This design is nowhere near as coherent as Thrawn, but then again, Palpatine himself really wasn't. Feel free to butcher/assist as you feel necessary.
     
  20. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Wait: those are two decisions, or one? Because I don't get the semitic thing....
    (What exactly they're supposed to represent)
     

Share This Page