marioflag
History Addict
Yes you are right, probably unit & city mainteinance would be so high that you have to disband most of these units you acquired through the spell, it just needs to be tested
Design: World Spells
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Yes you are right, probably unit & city mainteinance would be so high that you have to disband most of these units you acquired through the spell, it just needs to be tested
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Any volunteers? Two days.
lol, you would disband most, but you would still gain an powerful edge of enemies... like doubling your army.
and not sure they would have helped better as barbs... barb don't focus on 1 of your neighbours...
you can focus on building /growth, then launch the spell, get tons of free units and attack...
but mid-late game ... no barbs (or at least no more orcish barbs) so you have a useless spell .. (not an underpowered one, but a useless one .. a bit sad)
and not sure they would have helped better as barbs... barb don't focus on 1 of your neighbours...
you can focus on building /growth, then launch the spell, get tons of free units and attack...
but mid-late game ... no barbs (or at least no more orcish barbs) so you have a useless spell .. (not an underpowered one, but a useless one .. a bit sad)
xienwolf
Deity
What I want to see added to the game is the ability to Gift units to the Barbarians. Then each of the World Spells which grant you more units than you can support can be walked to the nearest surviving Barbarian town and handed over in the hopes they wreak some havoc in your favor.
Whenever i play clan of embers i do exactly this. I rush 3 archmages with chaos 3 and start converting my units and enemy units to barbarians and just let them take over the world for me. If you've ever wondered how'd you'd eliminate all rivals without first winning with a different condition this is it. And it's also alot of fun.
My earlier post seems to have been eaten. Forgive me if this is a repeat.
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I have reservations on the Grigori world spell.
SE is competitive in vanilla. In FFH it's almost a no-brainer. Food is far more common and easier to obtain. Cottages do not mature to the same level. The various doubling wonders and the soon-to-be-added specialist-boosting wonders are just icing on the cake. Even if you don't like the micromanagement required by the SE (and I very much don't) it's so much more powerful in FFH that you can ignore it.
GP production is a major part of that. Resetting the counter is a huge deal. Even if you pop the world spell after just a 6 or 7 GPs, that reduces the cost of all subsequent GPs by 500-600 points. With reasonable timing, the spell is the equivalent of giving all the Grigori leaders Philosophical, only it's a bit better because you can time a big wave of GPs all at once. Once the counter resets, the Grigori player is likely to have lots of cities with several hundred GPP. As soon as the counter resets, GPs are going to start popping as the game cycles through cities until the new threshold nears the prior levels.
Which brings up the question of how overflow is handled on GPs. If it is not loast - whoa momma! Not only will you have a wave of GPs over 1-2 turns, but you'll keep cranking them out for the next several turns. On the other hand, if there is not overflow, the Grigori player will want to micromanage GPP production - keep going with all the cities that will pop before the spell is finished and shut down all the others so GPP aren't wasted, then go back adn reset once the spell goes off.
Even without a GP UU for the Grigori, this would be a wickedly nasty ability.
With the ability to drop the spell right after setting up a GP Adventurer farm that cranks out 50+ GPP and a 80+% chance of Adventurers, it gives the Grigori the ability to pop out a flood of mid game adventurers in the course of about 20-30 turns for a virtual hero-army.
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I have reservations on the Grigori world spell.
SE is competitive in vanilla. In FFH it's almost a no-brainer. Food is far more common and easier to obtain. Cottages do not mature to the same level. The various doubling wonders and the soon-to-be-added specialist-boosting wonders are just icing on the cake. Even if you don't like the micromanagement required by the SE (and I very much don't) it's so much more powerful in FFH that you can ignore it.
GP production is a major part of that. Resetting the counter is a huge deal. Even if you pop the world spell after just a 6 or 7 GPs, that reduces the cost of all subsequent GPs by 500-600 points. With reasonable timing, the spell is the equivalent of giving all the Grigori leaders Philosophical, only it's a bit better because you can time a big wave of GPs all at once. Once the counter resets, the Grigori player is likely to have lots of cities with several hundred GPP. As soon as the counter resets, GPs are going to start popping as the game cycles through cities until the new threshold nears the prior levels.
Which brings up the question of how overflow is handled on GPs. If it is not loast - whoa momma! Not only will you have a wave of GPs over 1-2 turns, but you'll keep cranking them out for the next several turns. On the other hand, if there is not overflow, the Grigori player will want to micromanage GPP production - keep going with all the cities that will pop before the spell is finished and shut down all the others so GPP aren't wasted, then go back adn reset once the spell goes off.
Even without a GP UU for the Grigori, this would be a wickedly nasty ability.
With the ability to drop the spell right after setting up a GP Adventurer farm that cranks out 50+ GPP and a 80+% chance of Adventurers, it gives the Grigori the ability to pop out a flood of mid game adventurers in the course of about 20-30 turns for a virtual hero-army.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Feel free to see how badly you can break the game with any given world spell when it is released; that's what you're all there for. Over the next few versions they'll be brought under control if found to be ill-concieved.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I think I'll like the Birthright Reclaimed ritual.
xienwolf
Deity
Nealhunt brings up a great point though. If your first GP costs you 100 points (total guess), and you cast the spell while one of your cities is at 2300 and there are at least 6 others over the 100 mark... how does the game handle 7 cities ready to pop a GP at once?
My initial assumption would be that it will cycle cities 1 at a time -- starting from the cap maybe? Not sure on that... -- and as they pop out a GP it will raise the number of GPP required for the next one, and move on to the next city.
Now, what happens if they hit the 2300 GPP city, take 100 and give him a GP? Does he now have 2200 and an overflowing meter? Or does he pop out another one for 200 (or whatever), knock down to 2100 and pop another, meaning that you lose a ton of GPP, but get 5 of them immediately in that single city? Or is the other 2200 points simply lost?
And if it won't multi-check the one city, will it take 100, then trim what you have left to be just enough to fill the new meter? Meaning that you lose 1900 GPP completely?
My initial assumption would be that it will cycle cities 1 at a time -- starting from the cap maybe? Not sure on that... -- and as they pop out a GP it will raise the number of GPP required for the next one, and move on to the next city.
Now, what happens if they hit the 2300 GPP city, take 100 and give him a GP? Does he now have 2200 and an overflowing meter? Or does he pop out another one for 200 (or whatever), knock down to 2100 and pop another, meaning that you lose a ton of GPP, but get 5 of them immediately in that single city? Or is the other 2200 points simply lost?
And if it won't multi-check the one city, will it take 100, then trim what you have left to be just enough to fill the new meter? Meaning that you lose 1900 GPP completely?
DeaExMachina
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2007
- Messages
- 168
Well I'm fairly sure that the game cycles your cities in the order they are listed. If you open up the manager that displays all your cities, what they are producing and what not I believe thats the order that it will use. Also if a city has 2300 and only need 100 to pop a GP then it will pop and then be reset to 0 as it would in any normal game.
However I'm assuming that resetting the GP counter resets your accumulated value but I guess we will find out tomorrow. Sidar SE ftw <3
However I'm assuming that resetting the GP counter resets your accumulated value but I guess we will find out tomorrow. Sidar SE ftw <3
I don't know how the spell work but here's how popping great people work, unless it's changed in shadow:
It will start with the first city and end with the last (I think often, but not always, in the order they've been created/conquered). For each city it will create a great person if the threshold is higher than or equal to the number of needed points. It will then remove the number of needed points from the citys total, pop a great person and remove all counters towards specific GPs. In other words you get to keep your overflow but it will be "free" points, not counting towards any specific unit. In rare circumstances this can cause a problem I'll get to later.
When it creates a great person it also increases the threshold. The next city will need that many points to pop a GP.
There is one situation you need to avoid. If you have gathered enough points by using specialists to pop a GP but you do not have anything producing points anymore this can occur:
Turn 1: You use the spell
Turn 2: You get a GP
Turn 3: You still have enough points to pop another GP, only this time you don't have any points towards a specific unit. The result is that you lose the points but don't get a unit! (The GP threshold doesn't increase).
It will start with the first city and end with the last (I think often, but not always, in the order they've been created/conquered). For each city it will create a great person if the threshold is higher than or equal to the number of needed points. It will then remove the number of needed points from the citys total, pop a great person and remove all counters towards specific GPs. In other words you get to keep your overflow but it will be "free" points, not counting towards any specific unit. In rare circumstances this can cause a problem I'll get to later.
When it creates a great person it also increases the threshold. The next city will need that many points to pop a GP.
There is one situation you need to avoid. If you have gathered enough points by using specialists to pop a GP but you do not have anything producing points anymore this can occur:
Turn 1: You use the spell
Turn 2: You get a GP
Turn 3: You still have enough points to pop another GP, only this time you don't have any points towards a specific unit. The result is that you lose the points but don't get a unit! (The GP threshold doesn't increase).
beorn
Prince
First game I played, AI cast For the Horde on turn 7. I cannot see how that could possibly be in its own best interests.
beorn
Prince
As it turns out, that was not the case (only option checked was no tech brokering), but it makes me wonder whether it was set up with that in mind.
A couple of new world spells I could think of:
*Forget: All players loose theirs explored map (or all other players).
*Island: A island is created somewhere in the seas (if there is a big sea in the world, and it will be occupied by many barbarians).
*Forget: All players loose theirs explored map (or all other players).
*Island: A island is created somewhere in the seas (if there is a big sea in the world, and it will be occupied by many barbarians).
popejubal
Emperor
Just played a game with Advanced Start with Kuriotates since I wanted to get into the action sooner and I thought their world spell:
Kuriotates- Legends: Gives a huge culture boost to all the players cities and settlements
was absolute garbage... until I started the game. I started with 3 cities and a couple of workers and was going to have to wait quite a while before I'd be able to improve and work a bunch of absolutely lovely tiles. Then I realized that I could cast the world spell and I did so on turn 2.
1 turn and 300 culture later in each of my cities let me start improving the Gold, Corn, Wheat and Marble and get cracking on a darned fine empire very quickly. One free (non-super) scientist gained from an event later and I started a quick move toward Writing, cottaged up the grasslands on that city and settled the free Super-Scientist for a blazingly fast tech rate that I couldn't have even hoped for without the free 300 culture in each of my cities so early in the game.
I was playing with a 500 BC type economy in 1500 BC and I was loving every minute of it.
Kuriotates- Legends: Gives a huge culture boost to all the players cities and settlements
was absolute garbage... until I started the game. I started with 3 cities and a couple of workers and was going to have to wait quite a while before I'd be able to improve and work a bunch of absolutely lovely tiles. Then I realized that I could cast the world spell and I did so on turn 2.
1 turn and 300 culture later in each of my cities let me start improving the Gold, Corn, Wheat and Marble and get cracking on a darned fine empire very quickly. One free (non-super) scientist gained from an event later and I started a quick move toward Writing, cottaged up the grasslands on that city and settled the free Super-Scientist for a blazingly fast tech rate that I couldn't have even hoped for without the free 300 culture in each of my cities so early in the game.
I was playing with a 500 BC type economy in 1500 BC and I was loving every minute of it.
ShadowDrgn
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 50
Legends should probably scale for game speed too. 300 culture on epic speed is weaker than on normal, although it does still give you the third ring. Unfortunately, if you're fighting a cultural border war, you're still going to need cultural buildings, and if you're playing on a large or huge map, you can't wait around to get 4-5 cities without getting enough culture to expand the borders in the first ones. Would it be too powerful to have the spell add 300 culture and a great bard to all cities?
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[NWO]_Valis
A bad kitty!
Is it a raw 300 points or is it multiplied by bonuses from that city buildings?
Without the building multiplication it is a no brainer found your cities asap and cast it, but if it would be modified by bonuses in the city it may be worth to wait till your temples and other bonus buildings are build.
Without the building multiplication it is a no brainer found your cities asap and cast it, but if it would be modified by bonuses in the city it may be worth to wait till your temples and other bonus buildings are build.
Roghar
Warlord
not necessarily - if you are building a bunch of settlements just for resources it could be well worth waiting. Your cities are going to get the culture anyway over time, not too long to 300, but its a huge sum for a settlement. I see it as a great way to secure resources in the mid stages
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