Designing Egypt in Civ7: Which Ramses should lead?

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Which Ramses should lead Egypt in Civ7?
Actually two Ramsesses are very interesting to me.
- One (Ramses II) is from Civ5 who 'speaks Arabians of Egyptian Dialect'. (That's gonna be Nasser if he leads Egypt). Great Builder I think.
- The other (Ramses III) is a leader who successfully stopped 'Sea Peoples Rampage' of the mid-late bronze age. (See Battle of the Nile Delta for more details.) This is what interests me very recently. even to the point of making new unit for Civ6 mod. Archers galley

^ This is arguably the First purpose built warship ever. First galleys with Fore and Aft castles and a crow's nest. so archers can be posted there to shoot down enemies with ease. 'Sea Peoples' while having a huge fleet and ferocity, they lack of this, (and even their ships are 'sails only'.. which I think this is Ramses III's propaganda, personally everyone would add oars or paddles to their seagoing ships by then unless these sea peoples are a race of ace navigators who could exploit windpower efficiently) Actually this unit drains me so many energy to build. it takes almost TWO months to finish (and even came dangerously close to botching). While it doesn't produce desirable effect it still worths a try for a maker with limited resource and with The Internet as the only research material. (Personally i'd like to move on to the next unit )

What is your view? (And your opinions on my model )

EDIT: Vertice reassigned to improve animations

 

[pokiehl]

I think Ptolemy I Soter would be a great choice (or even better, the Ptolemaic Kingdom could be its own faction).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'd like Akhenaten to lead Egypt, personally. But if I had to choose a Ramses, I'd go for Ramses II again.
We would have many potential naval civs in the game and making Egypt into one of them doesn't seem like a priority, especially since Phoenicia/Carthage and could fill that role easier.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Ramses II, but he's been overdone. Ptolemy I, Hatsheput, Thutmose III, Djoser, or Akhenaten would be better.

 

[pineappledan]

I think it would be cool if they went with an old kingdom leader. Someone like Narmer. The franchise has only ever picked New Kingdom or Ptolemaic pharaohs. I believe Hatshepsut is the oldest leader that Egypt has had (c. 1507 BCE). You have the option to pick someone truly ancient to lead Egypt

 

[Patine]

Which Ramses should lead Egypt in Civ7?
Actually two Ramsesses are very interesting to me.
- One (Ramses II) is from Civ5 who 'speaks Arabians of Egyptian Dialect'. (That's gonna be Nasser if he leads Egypt). Great Builder I think.
- The other (Ramses III) is a leader who successfully stopped 'Sea Peoples Rampage' of the mid-late bronze age. (See Battle of the Nile Delta for more details.) This is what interests me very recently. even to the point of making new unit for Civ6 mod. Archers galley
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^ This is arguably the First purpose built warship ever. First galleys with Fore and Aft castles and a crow's nest. so archers can be posted there to shoot down enemies with ease. 'Sea Peoples' while having a huge fleet and ferocity, they lack of this, (and even their ships are 'sails only'.. which I think this is Ramses III's propaganda, personally everyone would add oars or paddles to their seagoing ships by then unless these sea peoples are a race of ace navigators who could exploit windpower efficiently) Actually this unit drains me so many energy to build. it takes almost TWO months to finish (and even came dangerously close to botching). While it doesn't produce desirable effect it still worths a try for a maker with limited resource and with The Internet as the only research material. (Personally i'd like to move on to the next unit )

What is your view? (And your opinions on my model )

EDIT: Vertice reassigned to improve animations

Rameses III did not, "stop," the, "Sea Peoples," - he delayed the inevitable. The, "Sea Peoples," and the co-terminous (and possibly somehow related), "Heraclaedae," still crashed the Near and Middle East Bronze Age into a Dark Age.

I think Ptolemy I Soter would be a great choice (or even better, the Ptolemaic Kingdom could be its own faction).

The same problem as Cleopatra, exactly - just with a different face. We need more EGYPTIAN leaders of Egypt, not more Greco-Macedonians, Nubians, and roving Levantine West Semite, "Shepherd Kings." The Egyptian King Lists are very well stocked with EGYPTIAN leaders - I don't understand the need to choose these outsiders as PRIORITIES.

I'd like Akhenaten to lead Egypt, personally.

A leader who was declared a heretic and enemy of every institution and tradition of Egypt after his death, and stricken from all (well, most) obelisks, monuments, etc., of Egypt, even by order of his own son and successor, is a bit dubious.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

A leader who was declared a heretic and enemy of every institution and tradition of Egypt after his death, and stricken from all (well, most) obelisks, monuments, etc., of Egypt, even by order of his own son and successor, is a bit dubious.

Well at least he is Egyptian and not Greco-Macedonian or Nubian. He'd also be an interesting personality at least.

 

[pokiehl]

Well at least he is Egyptian and not Greco-Macedonian or Nubian. He'd also be an interesting personality at least.

I don't think it needs to even be justified with "at least..." It's a video game, not an appraisal of historical relevance. I think any factual personality who led Egypt is fair game. Akhetaten would surely be an interesting choice.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Rameses III did not, "stop," the, "Sea Peoples," - he delayed the inevitable. The, "Sea Peoples," and the co-terminous (and possibly somehow related), "Heraclaedae," still crashed the Near and Middle East Bronze Age into a Dark Age.

The same problem as Cleopatra, exactly - just with a different face. We need more EGYPTIAN leaders of Egypt, not more Greco-Macedonians, Nubians, and roving Levantine West Semite, "Shepherd Kings." The Egyptian King Lists are very well stocked with EGYPTIAN leaders - I don't understand the need to choose these outsiders as PRIORITIES.

A leader who was declared a heretic and enemy of every institution and tradition of Egypt after his death, and stricken from all (well, most) obelisks, monuments, etc., of Egypt, even by order of his own son and successor, is a bit dubious.

1. Didnt Battle of The Delta something worth to remember? it even has a big deal of propaganda stele written to comemorate Egyptian Victory over Sea People Barbarians
2. Why Akhanaten is hated by everyone after his reign? is he a bad leader or worshipping different gods?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

2. Why Akhanaten is hated by everyone after his reign? is he a bad leader or worshipping different gods?

He basically instituted monotheism, as in worshiping only the sun god Aten, instead of worshiping all of the ancient Egyptain gods.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ And Egyptian Monotheism didn't last past his reign?
Isn't 'Ra' the Sun God of Egypt?

 

[Patine]

^ And Egyptian Monotheism didn't last past his reign?
Isn't 'Ra' the Sun God of Egypt?

Yes, but he's more a Zeus figure, if you will. The Aton was a different issue.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Aton is similiar to Hebrew concept of One God ?

 

[Patine]

^ Aton is similiar to Hebrew concept of One God ?

More similar to Sol Invictis, the Monotheist Sun God of the cult Constantine I was reaised into in his upbringing. The Abrahamic Monotheist God of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and several smaller religions is not as strongly focused on a solar aspect.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I'd like Akhenaten to lead Egypt

I'm with Alexander, I would like to see Akhenaten as Egypt leader.
First because his monolatry of the only one true god, Aton (the sun).
Also because he is an androgeny person, I never saw an androgeny person on this game before.

Other option to be Egyptian leader coulb be Nermer, the first pharaoh ever (before him just mythologized figures as Rá or Osíris)
His truly name is unknown, but we can call him Nermer because it's a verb who give the idea of founding the Egypt.

And for last option it could be Piye, maybe an alt leader of Egypt and Nubia at same time.
I like Piye because him solve the issue who Fireaxis never made a black pharaoh before, but make Cleopatra thousand of times.

 

[Patine]

I like Piye because him solve the issue who Fireaxis never made a black pharaoh before, but make Cleopatra thousand of times.

Again, it's not a problem. Egypt doesn't need a Black Pharooah. They don't need a White Pharooah. They need more Pharoahs that looks like the demographic dominant in Egypt. Please, stop repeatedly saying the lack of a Black Pharoah is an objective problems that NEEDS solving - it's disingenuous, and it's trying to force Egypt into a Black-and-White dichotimy which the Egyptian people did not racially belong to.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Again, it's not a problem. Egypt doesn't need a Black Pharooah. They don't need a White Pharooah. They need more Pharoahs that looks like the demographic dominant in Egypt. Please, stop repeatedly saying the lack of a Black Pharoah is an objective problems that NEEDS solving - it's disingenuous, and it's trying to force Egypt into a Black-and-White dichotimy which the Egyptian people did not racially belong to.

Agreed, that is why I am not in favor of Cleopatra for VII, and would like Akhenaten, Hatshepsut, Thutmose III, or Djoser

 

[Patine]

Agreed, that is why I am not in favor of Cleopatra for VII, and would like Akhenaten, Hatshepsut, Thutmose III, or Djoser

Even a Rameses II who is not White (or Black) would be reasonable, as he's still an iconic, but actual EGYPTIAN, Pharaoh. Namer would also be good. Akheneten would be less favoured by me, because he's such a huge deviation from the Pharaonic tradition in his religious viewpoints - but not, seemingly, in a good way, considering his name was attempted to be erased from all obelisks and monuments by HIS OWN SON, after his death. Not a glowing review.

 

[Evie]

I mean, the same was done for Hatshepsut, so I'm not sure it's necessarily indicative of a bad ruler choice so much as intermecine power struggles...

(In fact there is a case that far from rejecting Hatshepsut's achievement, part of the point of erasing her was taking over the credit for them)

 

[Patine]

I mean, the same was done for Hatshepsut, so I'm not sure it's necessarily indicative of a bad ruler choice so much as intermecine power struggles...

(In fact there is a case that far from rejecting Hatshepsut's achievement, part of the point of erasing her was taking over the credit for them)

Akheneten tried to single-handedly uppend that whole millennia-old relgious system of Egypt out of seemingly sheer vanity - a religious system, which is, not to mention, a big part of the iconic vision of Egyptian ciivlization, and one of it's biggest recognition handles. This was obviously much more than simple disagreements of venal national policy in the halls of power.