Develop Our Own Resources!

[Beloyar]

We should have the ability to develop our own resources after a while. Plant our own wheat, breed our own cattle and horses, grown grapes and produce wine, cultivate silkworm, breed animals for furs, make incense from natural aromatic substances, grow peppers and stuff for spices, etc.

These abilities could be acquired after researching a tech that allows creating a certain resource. Climate and terrain type would influence this ability. You would also have to get permission or instructions from one of the owners of such resources. This could be expensive and nearly impossible to get, like trying to buy a city.


• P.S. Moderator, please email me if you're gonna merge this thread.

 

[primeminister99]

I like this idea. I think it would be especially helpful in scenario's involving a world map. An area like Europe became extremely powerful in real life. In the scenarios though this is difficult to replicate without altering the map, which makes it un-realistic, because in a 'real world' map because Europe is relativley small.

(if realism is your cup of tea, sometimes it's fun sometimes it's not IMO at least)

 

[sealman]

This would kill the trading aspect of the game. I would not like to see it implemented.

 

[primeminister99]

sealman since when do you trade wheat, cattle etc? I think it would make the game a lot better if you can grow your own agricultural bonuses. Obviously this wouldn't extend to non-renewable resources but so long as it's done in a logical way I would be in favour of this for agricultural resources.

 

[Beloyar]

This would kill the trading aspect of the game. I would not like to see it implemented.

This is why we have to expand the trade possibilities of the game into trading units and other things, not just what comes out of the ground.

If the economy of Saudi Arabia today gets super rich on oil alone, doesn't mean it's the only way. Japan got rich from selling great cars and consumer electronics.

Civ 4 has to develope these things.

 

[WarMonkeY]

This would kill the trading aspect of the game. I would not like to see it implemented.

I personally don't think it would. If you give civs different abilities to develop different things, then the trading would be more interesting as you would have something unique to sell.
Or maybe it should just be possible to upgrade resources in some way?
Or prosess them for sale or increased income or production?
All within the borders of sanity, nothing should be potentially unbalancing ofcourse

The possibilities on this area is as i see them, immense. But one must first sort one thing out; would this make things too complicated?
No doubt there are a lot of really good ideas in this forum, but the game would be far too complicated if all of them were to be used. Or would it? Guess we'll have to wait and see....

 

[airrahul]

How about this. Plants and certain crops are native to certain continents or regions but once exported to somewhere else can be planted there IF conditions are favorable to its cultivation. You cannot grow sugarcane in Canada but you certainly could take the crop and grow it in Brazil, the Caribbean, West Africa, and Louisiana. Climate should be an important factor for crops and cattle. Elephants for example should be able to be gotten for use in building war elephants from regions such as India, Africa, and Southeast Asia (these examples are all from our own world) but not from regions such as Germany or France or the US. Taking animals to other places should be harder and there should be a rule that only domesticated animals such as cattle, horses, and so on should be allowed to be moved and that they would act like units on a transport vessel. Furthermore, for them to be transplanted, they should be transplanted into a favorable climate, otherwise they will die off. Climatic shifts will kill them too, as will a shift from say plains to forest and so on.

As for one developing their own resources, this is fine for natural resources such as oil and such while products built in factories and such should be tradeable as well.

 

[Beloyar]

Thanks for the support, airrahul, but the game does not have climates. I already mentined about the climate influencing such abilities, but the game only has terrain types. No climate.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Perhaps what is needed here is a greater seperation between a standard tile, a tile with a bonus resource and a tile with a terrain improvement (oh and, of course, a bonus resource tile with a terrain improvement).
Secondly, you should be able to vary the amount of food/shields you get from a tile (i.e. under or over exploitation) Exploitation levels could effect pollution AND the chance of a bonus resource appearing/disappearing on that tile!
Thirdly, but related to my second point, tile improvements on a hex should create a small chance that the hex might 'Spawn' an appropriate resource. Having certain techs and/or improvements in the city might increase the chance of this spawning (for instance stables and horses).
There should also be a relatively large subset of terrain types which are thoroughly unimprovable!
Allow the trade of FOOD and SHIELDS between civs (and cities)!!! Hmmmm, where have I heard THAT before?
I think that, if all of these things were done, then you could allow for the fact that certain bonus resource types can be 'bred', but without limiting the importance of the trading side of the game! For instance, without stables, there would be nearly NO chance of spawning horses, but you need a source of horses in order to build stables in the first place. These can either be obtained through conquest, exploration or trade!
Anyway, hope I'm on the right track!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[sealman]

I personally don't think it would.

How will this not kill trading. If every nation can build their own luxaries and bred horses, the only thing left to trade are the nautual strategic resources and techs and the ever popular world map. I for one do not trade those if at all possible and in my games, it seems that teh AI does not like trading them to me.

If you give civs different abilities to develop different things, then the trading would be more interesting as you would have something unique to sell.
Or maybe it should just be possible to upgrade resources in some way?
Or prosess them for sale or increased income or production?
All within the borders of sanity, nothing should be potentially unbalancing ofcourse

...

This is already simulated by the placement of the luxaries, if only one civ has the wine, than it has something unique to sell.

 

[sealman]

This is why we have to expand the trade possibilities of the game into trading units and other things, not just what comes out of the ground.

If the economy of Saudi Arabia today gets super rich on oil alone, doesn't mean it's the only way. Japan got rich from selling great cars and consumer electronics.

Civ 4 has to develope these things.

I agree that the trading aspect of the game needs to be expanded, but this is moving in the opposite direction.

 

[sealman]

sealman since when do you trade wheat, cattle etc? I think it would make the game a lot better if you can grow your own agricultural bonuses. Obviously this wouldn't extend to non-renewable resources but so long as it's done in a logical way I would be in favour of this for agricultural resources.

I could live with growing wheat and cattle, unless CIV 4 gives us the ability to trade food products (but that is another issue).

But I will draw the line on the tradable resources that were originall mentioned in the first post.

 

[DogmaDog]

Ehhhh. I dunno. There are certain places in the world that are just good for providing resources--Napa Valley for wine, and the Midwest for cattle, for example. You can't just go make anywhere into a wine producing region (ever try wine from Florida? It's awful!).

What I wouldn't be opposed to is having luxury and bonus resources that only appear after certain technologies are developed, in the same way that strategic resources appear. Or perhaps just a random chance that a bonus resource will suddenly just appear somewhere.

I'd be scared of the possibility that you could turn every square into a bonus resource square.

DD

 

[NobleLeader]

I don't know if this was posted before (probably yes) but I think the resources should be used to produce manufactured resources.

Like:

- You have a wood source, then you can produce paper
- You have a silk and a dyes source, you can produce clothes

etc,

Then you can sell your additional sources of manufactured resources.

To produce you need to have a determined tech and a factory in the city. For instance, to produce paper you'll have to writing (or literature).

 

[dylanhatesyou]

Beloyer- - great idea.

I think it should work something like this:

A city must have silk, dyes in its radius. Then it can produce a factory, and produce a mill(or something) and then you can BUILD one unit of exportable goods(in the same way you build a unit/improvement). It should take many many shields to do this however, or else trading gameplay would just not be very good. Some system would need to be worked out...

Maybe you'll need certain goods to build certain improvements/use techs?

Like, you'll need a factory to build tanks and destroyers and machine guns, not just a barracks to train people how to use them. Barracks dont build tanks, or anything palpable, for that matter.


Maybe general factories (ones that can build a vareity of products) will be quicker to build, but goods will be much slower to produce. And specialized factories(tire factores, automobile plants, etc) will be slower to build but produce those goods faster.

Hmmm.

 

[sealman]

...

What I wouldn't be opposed to is having luxury and bonus resources that only appear after certain technologies are developed, in the same way that strategic resources appear. Or perhaps just a random chance that a bonus resource will suddenly just appear somewhere.

I agree. In fact the DYP Mod did do this. You would need to research Weaving and once you did, silks would appear.

I'd be scared of the possibility that you could turn every square into a bonus resource square.
DD

I am concerned of that as well.

 

[redstang423]

Perhaps a better way of dealing with the luxury/resource spawning is you either buy the "rights" (seeds for grapes, buy the horses for breeding, etc.) from a Civ that already has them or research them. So far this is the main point people have brought up. However to keep some of the trading aspect in the game, for those civilizations who do not naturally support wines, horses, silks or what have you, make a maintenance cost to continue supporting the luxury. That way, you have the option of paying something like 6 gold per turn for wines you produce on your own or trading with another civilization. Once you learn how to grow wines (still have to buy the rights or research the tech) you will always know, even if you maintain the process for 5 turns and then can no longer affoard it and go back to it in another 6 turns.

 

[Beloyar]

Perhaps a better way of dealing with the luxury/resource spawning is you either buy the "rights" (seeds for grapes, buy the horses for breeding, etc.) from a Civ that already has them or research them. So far this is the main point people have brought up. However to keep some of the trading aspect in the game, for those civilizations who do not naturally support wines, horses, silks or what have you, make a maintenance cost to continue supporting the luxury. That way, you have the option of paying something like 6 gold per turn for wines you produce on your own or trading with another civilization. Once you learn how to grow wines (still have to buy the rights or research the tech) you will always know, even if you maintain the process for 5 turns and then can no longer affoard it and go back to it in another 6 turns.

Good suggestions. Pay either for importing or for your own wine. However, there should be the possibility to import at the same time, for a variety of wine on the domestic market. If you grown your own, it will always produce a variety of the product, but your people could demand both kinds if they want to.

To grown wine, you need hills on the coast or one tile from coast, at least 10 tiles from the tundra and jungle terrains. This is a bit too complicated.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

IMHO if you combine this with rcoutme proposals http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1877326#post1877326
we'll have an exciting mew game...

 

[sampedestal]

i do think that its a bit odd that spices and bananas grow on the once-jungle grassland. there should certainly be some change with that