[Development] Map Suggestions

I think this adding - removing tiles in Europe (and elsewhere) should be considered when we see how balanced civs will feel upon actual map implementation. What if this extra tile for Seville will "break" Moors or they will on opposite constantly underperformed without it? We cannot tell without testing.
 
Leoreth, can you clarify?

After your initial 'I won't consider' post, you posted this:

Given that most of @Uncle Paul 's proposed changes were of the 'add/subtract a few tiles' (sometimes even just moving a tile one space), are you willing to consider them? Likewise, @h0spitall3rz 's proposal for Iberia was to add a single tile to the Moorish core -- is that something you'd consider?

@ozqar 's original proposal was to add 9 tiles to the Iberian peninsula. Given the above, it's clear you're not willing to consider that. However, if there were a more modest proposal that only adds a few tiles (or adds a few to southern Iberia and removes the same number from the north) would that be something you'd consider? If, for instance, we took @h0spitall3rz 's proposal as a base, and removed a single tile (perhaps from the northwest corner of Iberia) the sum total of land tiles in Europe would stay the same.

I very much approve the goal of allowing a separate Seville and Cordoba, to give teeth to the Moors and to make for a more compelling Reconquista. I'm just wondering if there's any way to make that possible within the confines of the current map.
I don't think it's possible. Leoreth, for whatever reason, doesn't want more tiles in Europe, and even though I'm not happy about it, it's his mod, and his choice, and you can't really expand Iberia by only a tile or two (other than adding that one tile h0spitall3rz did) without creating some bizarre, distorted shape. Maybe, once he has officially released the bigger map (since we're not allowed to make mods with it until he officially releases it), someone could make a modmodmod with a bigger Iberia, following ozqar's proposal. It won't be me, since I have no modding ability or experience whatsoever. The closest thing I've ever done to modding is changed one number in some DoC XML/Python file so Polynesia shows up as a AI civ, instead of only showing up when you are playing as them.
 
I don't know how to be more clear or further clarify beyond literally saying that I will not agree with any proposal that aims to increase the available land area in a given continent, least of all Europe. Frankly, it is a bit irritating to see myself quoted with that literal statement as if it is some kind of contradiction to what I said elsewhere, when in fact it is an even stronger version of the same sentiment.

If it is to correct the shape of a coastline that can be discussed. I think it is pretty obvious that that is not what we are currently talking about.
 
I don't know how to be more clear or further clarify beyond literally saying that I will not agree with any proposal that aims to increase the available land area in a given continent, least of all Europe. Frankly, it is a bit irritating to see myself quoted with that literal statement as if it is some kind of contradiction to what I said elsewhere, when in fact it is an even stronger version of the same sentiment.

If it is to correct the shape of a coastline that can be discussed. I think it is pretty obvious that that is not what we are currently talking about.
I did have 3 minor coastline correction proposals in Europe (1 for Pomerania, 1 for Northeast England, 1 for Cornwall)
 
And you didn't get arrested
 
I am actually a bit concerned about the size of Central Europe (excl. Germany) and the insular Balkans (i.e., excl. Greece). It just feels so compressed due to the enlargement of the portion west of it. I'm not sure if it's just me, though. I actually tried to think of a way to adjust that too, but all I could think of is shrinking the Black Sea a little by adding land tiles to expand the Wallachia/Moldavia area.

Just thinking out loud, since Europe's general coastline and shape is most probably final already. :D
 
I am actually a bit concerned about the size of Central Europe (excl. Germany) and the insular Balkans (i.e., excl. Greece). It just feels so compressed due to the enlargement of the portion west of it. I'm not sure if it's just me, though. I actually tried to think of a way to adjust that too, but all I could think of is shrinking the Black Sea a little by adding land tiles to expand the Wallachia/Moldavia area.

Just thinking out loud, since Europe's general coastline and shape is most probably final already. :D
It would be nice, but Leoreth said no more expanding areas in Europe. Maybe, when the big map has been officially released, someone (not me, I can't mod) will make a modmodmod with ozqar's Iberia and the Eastern Balkans enlarged at the expense of the Black Sea.
 
So, I’ve got more map suggestions, this time for the Sahara.

While working with city names in the area, I’ve realized that there were some areas that looked somewhat off, even considering the map distortions. Since the only suggestions made for the region are from four years ago, I’m giving some ideas here that involve quite few tiles and have impact on city names. That’s why I’m making this separate post specifically to point out that and hear/receive some feedback before going back to work.

The central Sahara has some significant features that includes mountain ranges and highlands. Certainly the most important (at least in what impacts my suggestions here) are the Tibesti Mountains in the Chad-Libyan border and Hoggar/Ahaggar Mountains in south Algeria.

Spoiler Sahara :


Sahara.png



Now, if you look at the current map, both the Tibesti and Hoggar/Ahaggar Mountains seem located little bit south than what they should. This is evident if we look their positions relative to the African coast, the Nile, the Niger, and Lake Chad.

Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG



My proposal is to shift these highlands/mountain ranges 1N as show by the red arrows. I’ve also added several additional hill tiles (marked with H) within Hoggar/Ahaggar Mountains to have a more precise shape considering the topographic map above. After receiving some feedback, I’ll look in more detail the terrain, resource and oasis placement.

Spoiler :

Map Changes.jpg

 
I suggest adding a pig next to Munich (no real preference for which tile next to Munich in particular), to represent the Weisswurst sausage, and all the other famous German pork sausages that I enjoyed when I visited Germany.
Leoreth, if you ever make it across the border into Germany, I highly recommend both the Weisswurst and the Currywurst (a pork sausage with a curry ketchup sauce), they're both very good.
I'm planning to look into other famous regional foods and beverages, and make resource suggestions accordingly. If this isn't helpful, please let me know.
 
Another batch of map suggestions, this time focused on Cameroon, Lake Chad basin, Central African Republic, and Darfur.

Spoiler Cameroon :

Cameroon.JPG

  • Resources: added Copper (as mentioned in previous post) and removed Aluminum (didn’t found any sources about some significant resources or even mining industry in the area). Moved Oil (Black/Barbarian) from Duala tile to the sea (again, Cameroon seems to be resource-poor in comparison with neighboring Nigeria and Equatorial Guinea). I considered adding something to represent the Kola Nut trade/production that important for the pre-colonial local kingdoms/chiefdoms, but I’m unsure about which resource to denote it (maybe Spice?).
  • Adjusted plot types, adding few hills (Yellow/Egypt) and flattening Youndé tile (Orange/India) to better represent local geography.
  • Terrain: switched few jungle tiles to rainforest to allow the founding of older towns/capitals of pre-colonial polities and in East Cameroon to Savanna (Green/Ethiopia and Yellow/Egypt), since much of East and Northeast Cameroon are Savanna.
  • Extended rivers Benue and Sanaga.


Spoiler Lake Chad :

Chad Basin.JPG

  • Flattened the region (Orange/India) to better reflect local topography.
  • Adjusted Marshes, removing one (Cyan/Greek) to open space for Massenya (capital of Sultanate of Bagirmi and a longtime vassal of Kanem-Bornu Empire) while adding new ones (Purple/Babylonia) and a Flood Plain (Red/Rome) to reflect the significant wetlands in the region.
  • Extended Chari river, and also adding Logone to better represent Lake Chad’s major tributaries and local rivers.
  • Resources: added Cotton (Orange/India) the southern shores, Oil and Camel in the north. Cotton has been an important export product from 15th century on, cultivated in the Flood Plains in the rivers in the south. Oil is currently a major export and Camel was really important since the establishment of the Trans-Saharan routes here, being a symbol of wealth and prestige both for the Kanem peoples and the desert nomads.


Spoiler Central African Republic :

Central African Republic.JPG

  • Mostly terrain adjustments here. Switched a hill to flat tile to better represent local topography (Orange/India). Switched jungles to savanna (the region is mostly covered by that vegetation/biome) and added two marshes (Purple/Babylonia) to decrease the potential size/productivity of local cities, also representing the wetlands that exist in the region. In the East, switched jungle to rainforest, so few pre-colonial Azande towns can be settled by pre-colonial African civs if they want it.
  • Removed Uranium since I couldn’t find any source about it: there is some reserves, but they aren't exploited. Also switched the Gems to Diamond version, since it is the main export for some time.


Spoiler Darfur :

Darfur.JPG

  • Again, mostly terrain adjustments. Added a Mountain (White/Japan) and few Hill tiles (Yellow/Egypt) to better represent both the Ennedi Plateau as well as Marrah Mountains. Also made small terrain adjustments (Grey/Independent) the northmost turned from desert to semi-desert, while the semi-desert tiles near Ouara and Al-Fashir became plains to allow the possibility to establish important towns such as Geneina (one of the largest and most important cities in the area) and Uri (capital of the old Tunjur Kingdom)
 
The Adamawa region of Cameroon supposedly does have huge bauxite deposits. But it's true indeed that they have barely been exploited.
 
I suggest adding a pig next to Munich (no real preference for which tile next to Munich in particular), to represent the Weisswurst sausage, and all the other famous German pork sausages that I enjoyed when I visited Germany.
Leoreth, if you ever make it across the border into Germany, I highly recommend both the Weisswurst and the Currywurst (a pork sausage with a curry ketchup sauce), they're both very good.
I'm planning to look into other famous regional foods and beverages, and make resource suggestions accordingly. If this isn't helpful, please let me know.
@Hickman888 why did you laugh at my suggestion?
 
vX0b1dy.jpg

Suggestions for Tibet
Moorland added (French color)
Gold added to represent Thok Jalung
Both incenses moved in order to free up space for both Lhasa and Shigatse, with 2 tiles in between them (so they don't have to share a first ring, my ideal locations for them are the two squares in Tibetan color, for both of them, the incenses currently on those spots were moved, the Shigatse incense moved 1NW, the Lhasa incense moved 1W...I think Tibet should have two core cities for the bigger map.

5ecPpsx.jpg

Suggestions for Korea
Moved the river above Seoul 1S, to enable Seoul and Pyongyang to both work their entire first ring. (the two squares of Korean culture are my proposed locations for them) I think this (where Seoul is 1S of its actual location) is better than having Seoul and Pyongyang choke/crowd each other, and better than trying to squeeze Pusan in. Perhaps Japan could also be shifted 1E, so that their territorial waters don't overlap so much?

N5HGdww.jpg


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Suggestions for Western North America (all of the suggestions from here to the end of this post contain 2 screenshots - 1 with the changes highlighted, 1 zoomed out so you can see how the coastline looks)
I tried a bunch of different things to fix the US West Coast, which looked like someone took a bite out of it. This is the one that I think looks best
Added tiles in yellow, removed tiles in purple
I think it looks really nice this way, much less "off" than the current rendition.

MeL0JNI.jpg

aS6zP5S.jpg

Same thing here with Cuba - added 1 tile (highlighted in yellow) for a better looking coastline/shape of Cuba.

fMgJhXh.jpg

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Northern Europe
Moved Cornwall 1N
Added 2 tiles to eastern Britain for a better-looking/more accurate shape. I experimented with several different configurations for Scotland, and this is the one that I like the best.
Added 1 tile to Northern Poland to better mimic the shape of the coast (it just out about 1/3 of the way to Kaliningrad from the Oder, instead of having a distinct point, like currently in the map branch) - moved the marsh to that tile, freeing up a better spot for Gdansk, where it won't choke/crowd Warsaw as much.
I don't have a screenshot of this, but would also move the wheat in Sicily 1E, to free up space for Palermo to be built (since it is the biggest and most important city in Sicily)

euc5yt8.jpg

aWyoOVV.jpg

Added 2 tiles to Somalia for a more accurate looking coastline - I think it looks really nice this way, and it restores the "triangle" at the tip, which is accurate to real-life geography, too
 
Few more suggestions, this time to Tanzania, Great Lakes region and Sudan. Of these, the more significant ones are in the latter, since I’ve tried to adjust the Nile course there, so there is a quite impact on city names.

But before showing the suggestions, just a remark about stormogulen’s feedback:
The Adamawa region of Cameroon supposedly does have huge bauxite deposits. But it's true indeed that they have barely been exploited.
Even tough is not really exploited, I got thinking about it and feel that it should be somehow added, since there are few Aluminum resources on the map. Maybe by 1900s the Copper (which is in the Adamawa region) can switch to it, like the Copper/Iron in Egypt in early medieval era. Similarly, the same can happen in Jamaica (which should have a Sugar by colonial times and Aluminum in the 20th century).

Spoiler Tanzania :

Tanzania.JPG

  • Few changes here, mostly opening space for settling some cities. Moved (Black/Barbarian) both the Salt and Gems (Diamonds) 1S to allow, respectively, Ujiji and Tabora, both important pre-colonial towns associated with the slave trade.
  • Also removed Marshes (Cyan/Greek) do allow Lindi (even tough probably will never be settled because of Kilwa) and Dodoma.


Spoiler Great Lakes :

Great Lakes.JPG

  • Changes mostly around resources (Black/Barbarian). Removed Copper and put the Salt there, to represent the old salt works (that existed since Kitara times) near lakes Edward and Albert. Added Iron in the old salt location, so we can represent the main trade resources of pre-colonial kingdoms: salt for iron. Also added Banana, which was one of the main agricultural products of the pre-colonial kingdoms nearby.
  • With the addition of the banana and the presence of Fish in Lake Victoria, we may have here quite large cities. While is true that the region had and still have a sizeable population, I’m not sure if we want such big cities here, so it may be wise to remove the fish if we deem so.
  • Also, added the Victoria Nile here (in the Kampala tile).


Spoiler Sudan and South Sudan :

Sudan.JPG

  • Here we have the more significant changes. Adjusted the Nile course to better represent the basin, specifically changing the course of the White Nile, Blue Nile and Sobat rivers.
  • Adjusted the Marshes, removing some (Cyan/Greek) while adding one (Purple/Babylonia). Also added (Grey/Independent) a semidesert tile near Al-Fashir/Nyala to better represent the area and decrease the potential growth of local cities.
  • Adjusted some plot types to better represent local topography/geographical features. Flattened (Orange/India) few tiles and added Hills (Yellow/Egypt) to represent Nuba Mountains and Red Sea Hills.
  • Also, suggested the addition of an Oil resource near Nuba Hills. Oil is the most valuable export of both Sudan and South Sudan since the 1970s. We can place the resource in the suggested location or 1-2S of Sennar, which are both regions with large production.


Spoiler Overview of suggested map changes here and in the previous post :

Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG
Civ4ScreenShot0015.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0016.JPG

 
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