Actually, that's a great idea. I am curious how Smitty is going to tackle that problem. I would imagine he will get the basics done first, and from there go into bigger issues, such as workable naval mines and trenches, etc. I am at a standstill on trenches myself, we need an improvement like the trenches in civ 3. I f you can make a farm or a mine or a windmill, I am sure you can make an improvement look like a trench, with barbed wire, or make it look like a concrete bunker, for more elaborate trench works. Thing is you would have to make it take some punishment. You cannot have an old Taube come by and blow it to smithereens with one shot.
[Development Thread]WW1 Mod: Blood and Iron
- Thread starter snafusmith
- Start date
Kristian95
Dr. Minion
couldn't it be based on a smiliar model like the cottages... i.e. it can develop (be developed) to give better defense and will take several hits to destroy (just like cottages).
Sure, that would be the best bet. I am curious why know one has attempted to make an improvement which looks like a trench.
Quklis
Chieftain
Maybe they think that Fort is enough.
Not for good ole World War One, though.
Hello civheads!
This is my first post in this forum, hope you like it
I have been playing Civ for a long time and since i always wanted to have a ww1 mod, i was very delighted when i found this thread. I just started modding with Civ4 a few days ago, but i am not exactly a beginner in coding, so it came along pretty well.
As luck would have it, my first goal was to get some sort of trench system implemented. I ran into the difficulties described earlier in the thread (no sufficient access to low-level drawing code, improvements don't support connected tiles, etc.), but nevertheless i got a fairly nice system working. It's not perfect, but it should do the job and after all it's just a graphical feature. The screenshots below show a proof-of-concept implementation, the actual trench models need to be worked on of course
. I just wanted to know if i can do trenches with the set of pieces i made before putting to much time into models i can't use.
I didn't read all of this thread yet, so i'm not sure if anyone has similar stuff implemented already. The trenches are a terrain feature (like ice and forest) and use the same system as the ice packs (afaik nothing else in the vanilla game uses that system yet), so they should be buildable by units like planting forest. Let me know what you think
That being said, i have some more material for all people interested in ww1 (again, since i didn't read the whole thread, this may have come up before):
There is a great BBC documentary from around 1960 called "The Great War". 26 episodes packed with original footage and interviews with people involved (of whom most were of course still alive at that time
) Definitely a must-see! (It was on youtube a while ago, but has been removed - dvd is better anyway)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_%28documentary%29
I'd really like to get this mod going, so feel free to contact me if interested
This is my first post in this forum, hope you like it
I have been playing Civ for a long time and since i always wanted to have a ww1 mod, i was very delighted when i found this thread. I just started modding with Civ4 a few days ago, but i am not exactly a beginner in coding, so it came along pretty well.
As luck would have it, my first goal was to get some sort of trench system implemented. I ran into the difficulties described earlier in the thread (no sufficient access to low-level drawing code, improvements don't support connected tiles, etc.), but nevertheless i got a fairly nice system working. It's not perfect, but it should do the job and after all it's just a graphical feature. The screenshots below show a proof-of-concept implementation, the actual trench models need to be worked on of course
. I just wanted to know if i can do trenches with the set of pieces i made before putting to much time into models i can't use.
I didn't read all of this thread yet, so i'm not sure if anyone has similar stuff implemented already. The trenches are a terrain feature (like ice and forest) and use the same system as the ice packs (afaik nothing else in the vanilla game uses that system yet), so they should be buildable by units like planting forest. Let me know what you think
That being said, i have some more material for all people interested in ww1 (again, since i didn't read the whole thread, this may have come up before):
There is a great BBC documentary from around 1960 called "The Great War". 26 episodes packed with original footage and interviews with people involved (of whom most were of course still alive at that time
) Definitely a must-see! (It was on youtube a while ago, but has been removed - dvd is better anyway)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_%28documentary%29
I'd really like to get this mod going, so feel free to contact me if interested
Amazing! That looks awesome. XxwarlordxX
Chieftain
looks nice
That being said, i have some more material for all people interested in ww1 (again, since i didn't read the whole thread, this may have come up before):
There is a great BBC documentary from around 1960 called "The Great War". 26 episodes packed with original footage and interviews with people involved (of whom most were of course still alive at that time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_%28documentary%29
I'd really like to get this mod going, so feel free to contact me if interested
I think I have that. Forgot about it, but I may watch it, thanks to your first post.
Almost everyone here on the CFF is greeted by the community on their first few posts. But your first post being this amazing, the greets for you will not be so much as habit, but excitement that a newb-modder is already incredible! See/Read ya around
snafusmith
Unit Maker
@Lukrassos,
WOW! I've been waiting for someone to try their hand at getting the code for trenches working, thanks! I'd be more than willing to work on some graphics for them, now that I know they could actually be used. I'm not a coder myself, so I wouldn't know how to merge them with the existing code, but Ninja2 is the guy working code for Blood and Iron. Once you got it working, I'm sure he could merge it in! Definitely PM me if you want me to work on some graphics for you.
@All,
As an overall update, RL has been incredibly busy lately, between working 12-16 hr days regularly, traveling, and other stuff, I haven't had much time to work on B&I. That said, I did have some time while flying to work on some new aircraft:
Sikorsky S.16
Short S.184
Royal Aircraft Factory RE8
MF7 Farman
Farman Seaplane
-Smitty
WOW! I've been waiting for someone to try their hand at getting the code for trenches working, thanks! I'd be more than willing to work on some graphics for them, now that I know they could actually be used. I'm not a coder myself, so I wouldn't know how to merge them with the existing code, but Ninja2 is the guy working code for Blood and Iron. Once you got it working, I'm sure he could merge it in! Definitely PM me if you want me to work on some graphics for you.
@All,
As an overall update, RL has been incredibly busy lately, between working 12-16 hr days regularly, traveling, and other stuff, I haven't had much time to work on B&I. That said, I did have some time while flying to work on some new aircraft:
Sikorsky S.16
Short S.184
Royal Aircraft Factory RE8
MF7 Farman
Farman Seaplane
-Smitty
Thanks for the warm welcome
I'd be glad to get some help with the graphics, especially with texturing. I am a pretty experienced Blender user, but my texturing skills are not so good, especially compared to snafusmith's - those unit models make me drool on the floor
Corrected tile sizes (black color comes from missing texture), replaced one of the pillboxes with a real model:
Close-up of the pillbox
testing trenches on hills:
About the "coding": The trench system does not use any SDK changes (except perhaps for the actual creation by units, but thats not implemented yet). It simply takes the system that is already in place for the ice packs (called "half-tiling", i can explain in depth if requested) and uses it in a way that was probably not intended originally (this is also why there are some minor graphical glitches where the trench tile ends overlap - to hide these i will use some sort of small pillboxes at the intersections). All i did was create the appropriate tiles and edit some XML.
I did some more testing to find out how trenches could work on hills and came to the conclusion that we would probably have to make a second feature type for this (can't use the same graphics, since they would "sink" into the ground). It might be possible to make the same button create the appropriate feature type depending on the terrain below, so the player doesn't have to take care of that, but i don't know how this would work in detail. Another minor problem about this is that it's probably not possible to make the two types of trenches connect between each other (flatland trench -> hill trench and vice versa), but i guess it's not a big deal.
I'd be glad to get some help with the graphics, especially with texturing. I am a pretty experienced Blender user, but my texturing skills are not so good, especially compared to snafusmith's - those unit models make me drool on the floor
Corrected tile sizes (black color comes from missing texture), replaced one of the pillboxes with a real model:
Close-up of the pillbox
testing trenches on hills:
About the "coding": The trench system does not use any SDK changes (except perhaps for the actual creation by units, but thats not implemented yet). It simply takes the system that is already in place for the ice packs (called "half-tiling", i can explain in depth if requested) and uses it in a way that was probably not intended originally (this is also why there are some minor graphical glitches where the trench tile ends overlap - to hide these i will use some sort of small pillboxes at the intersections). All i did was create the appropriate tiles and edit some XML.
I did some more testing to find out how trenches could work on hills and came to the conclusion that we would probably have to make a second feature type for this (can't use the same graphics, since they would "sink" into the ground). It might be possible to make the same button create the appropriate feature type depending on the terrain below, so the player doesn't have to take care of that, but i don't know how this would work in detail. Another minor problem about this is that it's probably not possible to make the two types of trenches connect between each other (flatland trench -> hill trench and vice versa), but i guess it's not a big deal.
Nice planes snafu. I have been doing alot of reading. I read a book about the first air war, and am just about done with one on flying aces. I was waiting to see you make a farman. Do you have an Se5?
Maybe later you can make certain signature planes flown by the aces. Those trenches are great too. Nice job Lukrassos!
Maybe later you can make certain signature planes flown by the aces. Those trenches are great too. Nice job Lukrassos!
Update on the trenches:
As you can see, i started working on the actual models. They still lack some details, like sandbags, wire, etc. and proper skinning and of course texture (which i hope can be done by snafusmith). Also, it is no problem to make several variants of each tile to avoid repetition (as can be seen on the straight bottom part).
One question on a different matter: will there be shell damage to the landscape, i.e. will tiles be replaced by cratered nomansland when heavily bombarded by artillery? That would really add to the atmosphere and should not be too hard to code in afaik
EDIT: Just had an idea: Maybe there could be a special promotion "trench digger" or something like that, which gives a special defense bonus in trenches (just like the forest promotion does for forests) in addition to the general defense bonus they should provide. Also, trench bonus should be depending on the attacker type, i.e. biggest bonus against artillery or so.
As you can see, i started working on the actual models. They still lack some details, like sandbags, wire, etc. and proper skinning and of course texture (which i hope can be done by snafusmith). Also, it is no problem to make several variants of each tile to avoid repetition (as can be seen on the straight bottom part).
One question on a different matter: will there be shell damage to the landscape, i.e. will tiles be replaced by cratered nomansland when heavily bombarded by artillery? That would really add to the atmosphere and should not be too hard to code in afaik
EDIT: Just had an idea: Maybe there could be a special promotion "trench digger" or something like that, which gives a special defense bonus in trenches (just like the forest promotion does for forests) in addition to the general defense bonus they should provide. Also, trench bonus should be depending on the attacker type, i.e. biggest bonus against artillery or so.
Skitters
Prince
Looks excellent Lukeassos
Couple of questions - if trenches are a terrain feature, can you have a tile with forests and trenches? If not, I guess it could be argued that forests are stripped as part of the entrenchment process
In the FFH2 mod you can go from New Forest -> Forest -> Ancient Forest - so does that imply you could have a similar Foxhole > Trench > Fortified Trench?
I believe it's a percentage chance that New Forests develop into Forests, and I think (not sure) that it is also a percentage chance for a Forest to become an Ancient Forest you have to run a specific religion - which presumably implies you could have a tech requirement to go from Trench to Fortified?
Couple of questions - if trenches are a terrain feature, can you have a tile with forests and trenches? If not, I guess it could be argued that forests are stripped as part of the entrenchment process
In the FFH2 mod you can go from New Forest -> Forest -> Ancient Forest - so does that imply you could have a similar Foxhole > Trench > Fortified Trench?
I believe it's a percentage chance that New Forests develop into Forests, and I think (not sure) that it is also a percentage chance for a Forest to become an Ancient Forest you have to run a specific religion - which presumably implies you could have a tech requirement to go from Trench to Fortified?
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,454
Personaly, since this is suposed to recreate the great war I think that there should be no change in the name or the improvement in question, but that the models should change from a lighter to a massively fortified version as the years progres representing the stalemate that was the western front.
Finished the first version of trenches
Texturing is not that hard after all
Forests and trenches won't be possible at the same time i'm afraid. There is only one feature possible per tile. However, the explanation above is perfectly valid, since afaik in ww1 the really big trench systems were not dug in forests, since forests don't allow rapid troop movement anyway, which trenches should inhibit in open country.
Well, it would be possible (and imho quite interesting gameplay-wise) to have different stages of trenches, which "develop" in some way. The only problem is that it's probably not possible to connect the different types of trenches, but that doesn't have any effect on gameplay.
Texturing is not that hard after all
Forests and trenches won't be possible at the same time i'm afraid. There is only one feature possible per tile. However, the explanation above is perfectly valid, since afaik in ww1 the really big trench systems were not dug in forests, since forests don't allow rapid troop movement anyway, which trenches should inhibit in open country.
Well, it would be possible (and imho quite interesting gameplay-wise) to have different stages of trenches, which "develop" in some way. The only problem is that it's probably not possible to connect the different types of trenches, but that doesn't have any effect on gameplay.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,454
It looks nice, but if I might say you should try to lover the models a little. WW1 trenches were dug into the ground, not built up like walls.
I would, if there was any real possibility to "dig holes" into the terrain. This would require changing the heightmaps, and that again cannot be done by a feature overlay (afaik, if you find a solution, let me know). I know it's not a real trench, but i tried to get as close as possible by making it look like they made a parapet out of the earth.
EDIT: Hmm, now that you brought that up, i had an idea: It might be possible to fake the effect of "holes" in the ground by using a material with inverted z-test function ... I have to test this, but it might actually work
Can't promise anything though
asioasioasio
Fallout Scrubber
Awsome work Lukrassos - nice work on codding and graphics
GeoModder
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 7,512
You could think of it as separate early 'bastions' (perhaps something star-shape fortress alike) becoming connected over time with full-scale trenches like you're creating now.
And I'll get in line by telling this is great work.
Similar threads
